The keyboard player paradox

[Lou Gehrig Charles]

17 minutes ago, PianoMan51 said:

 

 

So, fix the live stage sound first. Reposition the players, the amps, the monitors, levels, EQs, etc. until everyone in the band can hear everyone else equally, but themselves a little louder. 

I am realizing that my problem is I can't hear myself as well as my bandmates can.  I need my own monitor.

[Ibarch]

There are two different aspects here
a) how do keys fit within the band sound and are they properly valued?
b) how recordings sound. 

@Jose EB5AGV, if it is mainly the comments about your recording that have made you question how keys fit, then perhaps I wouldn't worry too much. If there are other factors, such as always been asked to play behind the band, not having some songs with more prominent keys parts, not been given opportunities to contribute to arrangements or song selection, then that would be a little different.  Whichever scenario, having an open conversation with the rest of the band about how they perceive the overall sound and how guitars, sax and keys can work together  would be a great idea. There is lots of good advice already given by other posters .  I agree with a a gentle approach rather than your original plan. 

As for recordings, you have far more enthusiasm than me if you are recording every rehearsal.  When I originally decided to record my band I had ideas about putting a demo mix together we could share on our website and social media. It only took a couple of late night Cubase sessions to realise that actually recording and mixing is a highly skilled job and I am way short on said skills to make anything I would want to share.  It really matters where you place the mics, the room you record in, how the drums are recorded and so on. That is even before we get to the DAW. As to whether a recording sounds like the band really does, there is no such thing. It never will be exact. Every session is different, every song, every mix.

So, I now record our band solely for the purpose of producing tracks to use in our practice. We are an originals band so there are no other recordings to learn new songs from.  When we start out we simply use a phone to record ourselves, firstly to learn a new song and then to work on arrangements for it. Recordings gets circulated so we remember how the song goes the next morning, and what arrangements we tried. 

 

As we move towards putting a set list together, I will take a multi track recorder down to a rehearsal, slap a couple of mics on the drums, mic the guitar amp and put vocals, keys and bass direct. I have an ancient Korg D-888 8 track recorder with 40GB hard drive, so we can do full takes with everyone on separate channels.  Once levels are tested, I press record and let run for the entire rehearsal. As we are close to gig ready, we can usually run through the full set on a single take. It then takes me a few hours to copy the files up to Cubase, mark out the separate songs, add a bit of reverb to vocals, and get a rough balance. I then bounce each song to a separate file, which are shared with the band.  This provides a decent recording for practice use in the run up to gigs. I expected every band member to request a different mix, maybe with their instrument/voice lowered  but they all seem happy with the basic mix.   

So as a TLDR to point b, be realistic with what you can achieve with your own recordings. If you want to achieve a high standard, you absolutely need a multitrack, so you can mix instruments separately. Be prepared to take time with setup in rehearsals for setting up mics, positions. Get your band onside first, so they don't feel annoyed or that time is getting wasted. And don't worry what anyone says about a mix. 
 

[Stokely]

1 hour ago, Lou Gehrig Charles said:

I am realizing that my problem is I can't hear myself as well as my bandmates can.  I need my own monitor.

I reckon that each and every time I haven't had my own monitor--whether at a gig, or at practice when we are all playing through a PA speaker or something--I wish I did.  These days it's mostly IEMs but regardless, shared monitoring rarely works well in my experience.

[Jose EB5AGV]

56 minutes ago, Lou Gehrig Charles said:

I am realizing that my problem is I can't hear myself as well as my bandmates can.  I need my own monitor.

 

Well, one of the problems since I joined the band is that the rehearsals are too loud. The drummer is just unable to play softer. We say it to him. He agrees... but nothing happens on next rehearsal. So, with the volume so loud, the sax player is unable to hear me, for example. As I had troubles hearing myself, I put a monitor at my left side. But I noticed that, rotating it a bit, the bass player and singer could hear me. So, well, better than nothing!. But the thing is: when we rehearsal WITHOUT the drummer (he, due to work, arrives usually later), it is lots better in audio level sense. Everyone hears everyone else, sound is not deafening, ... You get the picture.

 

I will try (again) to get proper levels on rehearsals. Tomorrow is the next one, I will use the recording questions to insist on that. Because when we play in public, the keys are usually heard by the public (not always perfectly, but lots better than on the rehearsals). So, when someone says "we don't sound that way", well, up to certain point. Yes, guitar was too low on my first mix. But keys were about what the public hear.

 

So it seems there is plenty of work to do. I am happy to be on this band (well, it is my very first one, but really think we are getting along well). So I will work to find a solution to the rehearsals balance. My dirt and fast record work was more in the line to see what could be done with just some sepparate tracks, not as a final product, but as a decent workable snapshot.

 

Thank you all for the feedback, it is helping me quite a lot!

 

Jose