P Bass Nut Question

[Old Music Guy]

I posted this in the bass forum. I'm hoping that someone here might have some advice.

 

I have a Yamaha BB-25 4 string that I've had forever. It was lent to me by a friend who forgot about it. Nice guitar, but, not my style.

I just bought a 2014 MIM P Bass. First thing I did was straighten the neck, and put on a set of LaBella flat wounds. (see pic). 

The first thing that I noticed that the open D buzzed. No other string did that. D#? no buzz. Interestingly, the intonation was WAY better with the string change. 

THEN, I started looking at the nut. 

The E sits way up on the nut, as does the A. But the D is somewhere in between and the G is set way down. 

I'm a Motown, Stax/Volt kind of guy, and dropped a nice mute under the strings on the bridge. (No picks, just a "hook".)

My question is, looking at the pics, is this the way strings should sit on or into the nut? If it's correct, why the buzz?

I really don't want to take it to my tech guy (who is awesome) if I don't need to. 

I've never had this problem with my other Strats and Teles, but this bothers me. 

Opinions, please?

 

 

 

[Larryz]

@Old Music Guy, +1 The Bass forum is a great place to start.  I'm not a bass player and sold my only Fender Jazz bass.  I suspect the 1st fret is the culprit.  Maybe a little polishing and raise the bridge saddle just a tad and see what happens...

[Old Music Guy]

17 minutes ago, Larryz said:

@Old Music Guy, +1 The Bass forum is a great place to start.  I'm not a bass player and sold my only Fender Jazz bass.  I suspect the 1st fret is the culprit.  Maybe a little polishing and raise the bridge saddle just a tad and see what happens...

I tried the bass forum. No one home. I'll try your suggestion. 

[Mark Schmieder]

Maybe I should answer this in the bass forum instead, but I look at the forums in the order they are listed on the main page, so here goes:

 

The nut is way off. Period. But it may not be the only issue, as I have the same strings on mine and get some 60 Hz hum now and then, sometimes worse than others. Depending on how you use your lingo, you may also be experiencing that. If you really exclusively mean string buzz, then the nut is the culprit. You can but material to build up the overly low D string, and with a proper file that won't crack the nut, you can carefully and incrementally shave the slot for the "E" string.

 

I may be misinterpreting the depth aspect of your photo, however. It's a bit tricky to tell with just one photo, so maybe I am not correctly perceiving the actual string sittings in the nut. With that string set (same as mine), the tops of the strings should be fairly flush with the nut, going across the neck.

 

I can't see any obvious asymmetry to the height of the first fret, but maybe there's an issue there, and it would be where the buzz is most likely coming from regardless of actual cause. But as suggested, you may also be able to slightly tweak the bridge, or even the pickup height (individual screws to adjust for each string) to get better balance.

 

I would of course suggest starting with the least invasive actions, but I think you can hold off on paying a techie as you may be able to execute enough home remedies to solve it.

[Caevan O’Shite]

22 hours ago, Old Music Guy said:

The first thing that I noticed that the open D buzzed. No other string did that. D#? no buzz.

Do NOT do anything to the 1st-Fret (unless it's part of a complete fret-job, addressing ALL of the frets); what you stated there, "...the open D buzzed. No other string did that. D#? no buzz.", indicates that the nut-slot for the 2nd/D-String is worn or filed too low, allowing the open string to buzz against the 1st-Fret.

The best cure here would be to have an experienced, qualified person replace the nut altogether; the next best thing would be to have the nut-slot for the 2nd/D-String partially filled with the likes of a super-glue/bone-dust mixture or similar materials, and re-filed.

A decent temporary fix that I have done myself would be to fold over several layers of wax-paper and place it underneath that string in that nut-slot, finding by trial-and-error just the right amount of layers to raise that string just enough to eliminate the string-buzz against the 1st-Fret. Once you've found the right number of layers, add a tiny driplet of lube like Teflon-imbued TriFlow to the wax-paper in the nut-slot, and carefully trim the excess wax-paper away with an X-Acto knife. Don't use too much lubricant, it can seep into the string's winding and deaden the tone of its open-notes and even those on the first fret or two.

[Larryz]

@Caevan O’Shite et al, It's not going to cause any damage to clean and polish the 1st fret and do the rest if needed.  I use Planet Waves Fret Polishing System Instrument Care by J. D'Addario on all my guitars on all their frets each time I change strings.  It's not filing, nor is it sanding, it's simply cleaning the frets with a polishing paper and only takes a second on each fret.  It comes with 5 sheets and I'm still on the 2nd one after many years of using it. It makes all your frets look nice, clean and shiny and guitars sound and play better. The OP picture (to my eye) shows some dirt build up on the fret, which can cause a buzz due to lack of clearance and since the buzz goes away after the 1st fret, it would only take a second to find out. I also see a little wax built up on both sides of the fret which is common if cleaners containing wax have been used on the fret board. Raising the string saddle just a touch can also help with clearance and won't cause intonation issues.  The guitar may need nut work as you are describing, but I would let a tech handle putting on a new nut, if I needed one.  The OP also changed the strings (.082), so I would check to see if the new string matches the one taken off for string gauge... 😎

 

 

[Caevan O’Shite]

52 minutes ago, Larryz said:

@Caevan O’Shite et al, It's not going to cause any damage to clean and polish the 1st fret and do the rest if needed.  I use Planet Waves Fret Polishing System Instrument Care by J. D'Addario on all my guitars on all their frets each time I change strings.  It's not filing, nor is it sanding, it's simply cleaning the frets with a polishing paper and only takes a second on each fret.  It comes with 5 sheets and I'm still on the 2nd one after many years of using it. It makes all your frets look nice, clean and shiny and guitars sound and play better. The OP picture (to my eye) shows some dirt build up on the fret, which can cause a buzz due to lack of clearance and since the buzz goes away after the 1st fret, it would only take a second to find out. I also see a little wax built up on both sides of the fret which is common if cleaners containing wax have been used on the fret board. Raising the string saddle just a touch can also help with clearance and won't cause intonation issues.  The guitar may need nut work as you are describing, but I would let a tech handle putting on a new nut, if I needed one.  The OP also changed the strings (.082), so I would check to see if the new string matches the one taken off for string gauge... 😎

 

 

My intent in what I posted was to err on the side of caution; many people will start there with cleaning and polishing- and wind up hogging away at that nickel-silver and before you know it, that buzz has stopped being at the open position and jumped to the 1st-fret!     Forgive me if I trod on any toes...

[Larryz]

@Caevan O’Shite,  No no no, you didn't trod on any toes and I liked your suggestions!  I've seen the super glue and bacon soda trick that works miracles if you want to fill and cut. +1 I have had techs replace a couple of nuts and acoustic bone bridge saddles for me as I'm not talented enough to do the DIY cutting of them. It does look like some kind of dirt or corrosion in the picture on the top of that 1st fret. I just thought a little cleaning and raising the string saddle at the bridge might help and you would know if it worked within a few seconds.  Then try some of your tricks with the wax paper and lube, glue, X-Acto knife, etc., and work on the nut to raise the string a little.  I also liked @Mark Schmieder, our Bass player's 60hz hum and other suggestions, as a possible culprit too! 😎👍 

[Mark Schmieder]

Larry, thanks for the detailed hints on the cleaning kit, which I have pondered but keep holding off on. I keep forgetting how dirt buildup can affect string height. 🙂

[KTSs]

String Height at the Nut: The way the strings sit in the nut slots can indeed affect playability and buzzing. Ideally, the strings should sit snugly in the nut slots without being too high or too low. The height of the nut slots can influence both open string buzzing and overall intonation. From your description, it seems like the nut slots might not be properly filed to accommodate the new strings or their specific gauges.

String Gauge Change: Switching to LaBella flat wound strings can affect the tension and resonance of your bass, which might highlight existing setup issues. The buzzing on the open D string could be due to the nut slot not being properly cut for the thicker flat wound D string. This can cause the string to sit too low and vibrate against the frets.

Neck Adjustment: While you mentioned that you straightened the neck, it's important to ensure that the neck has the right amount of relief (slight bow). If the neck is too straight or has too much bow, it can also contribute to buzzing issues.

Mute Installation: Installing a mute under the strings can affect the string tension and height, potentially exacerbating any setup issues that were already present. Make sure the mute is not interfering with the strings' contact with the nut.

[KuruPrionz]

On 6/11/2023 at 9:25 PM, Old Music Guy said:

I posted this in the bass forum. I'm hoping that someone here might have some advice.

 

I have a Yamaha BB-25 4 string that I've had forever. It was lent to me by a friend who forgot about it. Nice guitar, but, not my style.

I just bought a 2014 MIM P Bass. First thing I did was straighten the neck, and put on a set of LaBella flat wounds. (see pic). 

The first thing that I noticed that the open D buzzed. No other string did that. D#? no buzz. Interestingly, the intonation was WAY better with the string change. 

THEN, I started looking at the nut. 

The E sits way up on the nut, as does the A. But the D is somewhere in between and the G is set way down. 

I'm a Motown, Stax/Volt kind of guy, and dropped a nice mute under the strings on the bridge. (No picks, just a "hook".)

My question is, looking at the pics, is this the way strings should sit on or into the nut? If it's correct, why the buzz?

I really don't want to take it to my tech guy (who is awesome) if I don't need to. 

I've never had this problem with my other Strats and Teles, but this bothers me. 

Opinions, please?

 

 

 

I thought I'd answered this question for you in the Lowdown forum? You said you got a new nut? Nuts are something that should be left to an experienced tech, we have our sets of files and the understanding that you must go little by little and only after everything else is properly adjusted. If the truss rod is too loose or too tight when the strings are tuned to pitch, that needs to be addressed before working on the nut slots. 

 

Sometimes, one will cut the slots too deep. Since a Tusc nut is really just a plastic, you could get some thin plastic stock (I mean very thin!) and use crazy glue to add a shim to the bottom of the nut. Then try again. 

 

The bottom of the nut needs to match the shape of the nut slot on the fretboard. I'm not familiar with the slots on the Fenders made in Mexico or even the current slot bottom that is used in the USA models. They used to be curved to match the top of the fretboard, it's possible they are now flat bottomed? It's also possible (but not very likely) that somebody flattened the bottom of the slot. If so and the new nut blank has the curved bottom then it could easily be broken under the D string when it's tuned to pitch and the string pushes the nut downwards to the flat nut slot bottom. Make sense?