Excellent video on ribbon mics

[Dave Bryce]

 

Very detailed, really well presented.

 

dB

[KuruPrionz]

Well, in the keeping it real dept., take another look, listen around 2:40.

He's comparing a ribbon with a moving coil and a condenser mic for recording a guitar amp. That's not a bad idea, if you do it fairly. 

 

But... he has the ribbon mic in the sweet spot by the edge of the speaker, the moving coil closer to the middle and the condenser mic set right in the center of the speaker. 

I'll go dollars to donuts that moving the mics into the same spot on the speaker will reduce the difference in sound considerably, I ALWAYS mic the edge, where the ribbon mic is placed. 

I NEVER mic the center, it's really bright there most of the time and doesn't make as nice of a sound. I learned that trick doing live sound for other bands. 

 

Further, he doesn't state which moving coil or condenser mic he's using. There's quite a range of sounds you can get if you swap out different mics. 

I would say this test is not valid. 

 

Hardly a nit-pick, that's a big difference. 

 

Somewhere around 13:30 or so, he does cop to the reality that there are LOTS of different mics but he still hasn't said which moving coil or condenser mic he's using to compare with the Cloud mics. 

 

None of this means that ribbon mics aren't fantastic tools for recording, they are. I wish I had a room where I could use one but I don't. I'd Blumlein the heck out of stuff!!!😇

 

 

[Dave Bryce]

1 hour ago, KuruPrionz said:

 

I'll go dollars to donuts that moving the mics into the same spot on the speaker will reduce the difference in sound considerably, I ALWAYS mic the edge, where the ribbon mic is placed. 

 

Funny - I’m no expert, but I also place different types of mics in different positions.  

 

I find that the placement of ribbons to be way more critical to the sound than either dynamics or condensers.  Large and small diaphragm condensers vary too, for me - I tend to put smaller condensers closer, and larger ones farther.  

 

I also tend to put ribbons more towards the speaker edge and condensers/dynamics more towards the center, but a bit further back - and sometimes a decent amount back - depending, of course, on the amp, the room and the sound I’m trying to get.

 

dB

[KuruPrionz]

1 hour ago, Dave Bryce said:

Funny - I’m no expert, but I also place different types of mics in different positions.  

 

I find that the placement of ribbons to be way more critical to the sound than either dynamics or condensers.  Large and small diaphragm condensers vary too, for me - I tend to put smaller condensers closer, and larger ones farther.  

 

I also tend to put ribbons more towards the speaker edge and condensers/dynamics more towards the center, but a bit further back - and sometimes a decent amount back - depending, of course, on the amp, the room and the sound I’m trying to get.

 

dB

I've tried all kinds of things since I'm a guitarist. I've done live sound, I've been in bands and watched what the sound man did, I've recorded a variety of guitars on a variety of amps and the bigger, smoother sound is near the edge of the cone. That doesn't mean it is always the "best" sound but when you are comparing microphones you need to do the same thing with each mic, every time. It wouldn't have taken any time at all for the host of the video to tell us which mics he was using but he didn't. It would have taken a little more time to mic the speaker the same way with each mic, be it center, partway out or on the edge but he didn't do that either. 

 

I'm not dinging Cloud mics, I'd LOVE to have some. I'm dinging the guy who made the video. It's a fail. 

You could do the same exact video with 3 moving coil mics, 3 condenser mics or 3 ribbon mics and I'd say the same thing. It lacks a level of honesty and disclosure that is needed for a test comparison review. Name all 3 mics and put them all in the same place and integrity remains intact. That's an honest test. 

 

If you heard my Electro Voice Raven moving coil mic next to my Shure KSM8, placed in the same spot on the speaker, you'd wonder why the Raven was so bright and the KSM so smooth. If you heard my Mic Parts T-67 kit large diaphragm condenser mic compared to the MXL 1006bp before I upgraded it with a Mic Parts kit (huge kudos to brother Matt Mcglynn!!!) you would notice that they didn't really sound the same either. I've only owned one ribbon mic, a CAD D-82 and it did sound nice but I doubt it compares to the Cloud mics, then again it was about a tenth the cost so we wouldn't expect it to anyway. I could give lots of examples of mics that could or could not sound more or less the same, there are hundreds of possibilities. 

 

I was interested in this test when I saw your post. No dings on you, we all miss or overlook things. Hopefully I make sense?

[Dave Bryce]

2 hours ago, KuruPrionz said:

Hopefully I make sense?

Not really sure what you mean by “make sense”.  You’re sharing your experience, and expressing your opinion and your preferences.  I don’t have a problem understanding that. 😎

 

The video’s purpose is to dig into how ribbon mics work.  I think he did a great job of that.

 

dB

[KuruPrionz]

3 hours ago, Dave Bryce said:

Not really sure what you mean by “make sense”.  You’re sharing your experience, and expressing your opinion and your preferences.  I don’t have a problem understanding that. 😎

 

The video’s purpose is to dig into how ribbon mics work.  I think he did a great job of that.

 

dB

I agree, he did a good job on the ribbon mics. 

He also tried to compare them to what? We don't know what the mics were. We don't know why they were not placed the same way so a fair comparison could be made.

Meaningless, completely. 

Cut that whole bit out entirely and then you do have a video with a purpose and a focus. 

 

Leave it in and I question his integrity for one thing. It's simple. We can go round and round and you can disagree and that's fine. 

Yes, I would have done it differently. 

[KuruPrionz]

I made a comment on the guitar amp test.

 

"OK, I'm seeing mics without designations being place in different places than the ribbon mic was placed. Of course they sound different, ALL mics sound different to some extent. Edit out the biased "comparison test" and you have a good video on ribbon mics. Identify all microphones and place them identically on the guitar amp speaker and you have an actual test with integrity. Otherwise, foof... And yes, the Cloud mics are great mics. Do yourself a favor and fix the obviously flawed comparisons. Put all the mics on the edge of the speaker, or on the center or both and let us hear what the difference really is about. A mic on the center of a speaker does not sound the same as the same mic on the edge, proven science and easy to do."

 

Audio University gave the reply a "love" (❤️) and replied as below.

 

"Audio University

Hey Michael. You’re right that all mics and placements sound different. The electric guitar test is a bit of an optical illusion, unfortunately. I should have used a better camera angle. The mics are all about 18 inches from the speaker. The difference in tone between those placements at that distance were not nearly as severe as they would be in close proximity to the speaker."

 

So his camera work is questionable at best. I'm a photographer, it didn't look right to me. On the other hand, 18" back is a good distance for a valid test comparison. 

So I will concede the point regarding incorrect placement and now that my response and his answer is on the YouTube video, nobody else will mistake it. 

However, he remains silent on the brand and type of moving coil and condenser microphones he's using. 

 

It probably doesn't matter much, I'm going to move on after posting just a bit more info. 

I've owned a variety of moving coil and condenser mics and still have a few that I've gravitated for and a very few that need to go away. 

 

Mic-Parts solved my "condensers are too bright" problem. The T-67 kit I built sounds very smooth in the highs, clear but not overly bright. That's capsule tuning combined with a great circuit, my hat is off to Matt McGlynn for getting it right. There is a switch inside to go from cardioid to omni, I'll probably leave it in cardioid.

 

Shure's KSM8 is in a class of it's own for moving coil mics, that's my favorite and I do have a couple other nice ones. The Sennheiser MD421 has a built in "pencil trick" that smooths sibilance and plosives considerably and the Heil PR40 almost sounds like a condenser mic - large diaphragm moving coil done right. There are excellent non-ribbon mics out there that will provide great results and are relatively affordable for small studio owners like me. 

 

I still like the how the Cloud mics sound in the test, I never said that I didn't - it's great stuff. More than one way to skin a cat and more than one cat needs skinning. 

 

I wouldn't be able to use them to their full potential here so I'll stick with what I'm using now. I prefer cardioid to super or hyper cardioid, which both have a "tail" that bleeds background noise. I can't use an omni or figure of 8 in the space I have to work with and I'm sure I'm not the only bedroom studio rat on MPN, to say nothing of the rest of the world. I'm certain there are other choices that work well for other recorders, maybe I'll get to use some of those someday and maybe others will try some of my choices. 

 

So it goes, hope I didn't ruffle any feathers too much. On to the next! 😇