Roland sound cloud

[Muad’Dib]

Has anyone ever used this? 

[Greg Mein]

Ugh, I'm probably going to have to download the software and see if I can find a better clav sound for the RD-88. I only have a peripheral knowledge of what I need to do and I'm not looking forward to it. What annoys me is that I'll have to download and install software I don't really want or need in order to waste time looking for something that should have already been there without even knowing if I'll be able to find it.

[David Emm]

I bought a D-50 Lifetime Key and its been a decent experience. If I don't use it for 10 days, it demands a sign-in to take it out of Demo mode. There's the line between convenience and having your tools held just out of reach. I'm happy with it, as the stars never aligned for me to have it as hardware, but it also highlights the level of suckage with cloud-based utilities. The website needs a tune-up, as it leads you down too many blind alleys.

 

There's also the issue of Roland cannibalizing its own history too often, but WTH, that's part of my history, too. It deserves its place, just like Sequential or Waldorf. I much prefer having my instruments on-board, but high-tech toys are always a trade-off. TBH, the Cloud D-50 has its specialties plus the traditional Roland things I prefer, so I Autosample as I go. Its as close to perfect as I need for Jupiter brass blats or Juno string globs.

 

You'll never see a Behringer version of this or the V-Synth because the base sample data is proprietary. You'd have to be heavily into Roland to pay the premium fee and lean on their servers that much. In my view, you'd be just as well off to buy your favorite Lifetime Key as I did and then nab a Cherry Audio Mercury-6. The Zenology side is quite useful, as long as their GUIs suit you. It just depends on your chosen work flow.

[RABid]

I own a Jupiter X, Jupiter Xm, System 8, MC-707 and a few more Roland products. For me Roland Cloud makes a lot of sense. I did the monthly ultimate for two months, then they came out with the Play For Life subscription and I joined. $180 gets a year of Ultimate and 2 lifetime licenses. I chose Jupiter 8 and JD-800. Will most likely renew for another year and choose two more. The real key to cloud, hardware integration is the cloud connect device. You get 12 months of pro with the purchase of the USB wireless device. You can try Pro level for a year with that purchase. Meanwhile I get to use a great virtual piano on my RD-2000, lots of virtual instruments on the Jupiters and System 8, and a load of VST's. My one issue is the cludgy way I have to load patches on the MC-707. I keep hoping they will come up with a better way.

[Greg Mein]

Roland sound cloud has quickly become my worst nightmare. I tried to email support to get some information but this guy is worse than a bot that is only programed to sell sound cloud.

 

I downloaded/installed roland cloud manager. Under the heading Hardware Instruments it pops up with a huge list of wave expansions/sound packs I can buy for the RD-88. Email tech bot person writes, "You could use the 30 day trial of Zenology Pro and audition the Clav sounds that come with that. You'd just purchase a membership and cancel it if you didn't like any of the sounds."

 

Ok, well, Zenology Pro doesn't show up on the huge list of wave expansion/sound packs for the RD-88. It does appear under the heading Software Instruments but I don't see an option for "30 day trial", however, there is a Zenology Lite that is a free download. So I download that and poof!, where did that go? It's possible that it's just an AU/VST that only shows up as a plug-in in Ableton, Logic, DP, etc.? How does this have anything to do with a hardware instrument?

 

It's a shame I didn't dig into this sooner or I'd have packed up and returned the RD-88 pronto. I used to be a huge Roland fan but after all these years I've quickly become disillusioned with them. I wonder if they've forgotten that someone might actually use one of these instruments in a place where you can't connect to the internet?

[David Emm]

Wow, those are two extreme polar opposites. Greg, I'm sorry your experience smells of dead fish. Been there. I never use the chat feature some sites offer. Its an express lane to entropy. Death to bots.

 

I got a taste of your aggravation in trying to navigate their lists of lists. Even when I sign in, there's a conspicuous lack of buttons that simply say Download for D-50 packs, even with my Lifetime key. Eff it, I'm already well-supplied. It'd just be nice to hear what they had to offer. Its not exactly a WIN for cloud subscription. All the same, the D-50 performs as advertised, so no real complaint, just a momentary twitch.

[Nowarezman]

The Roland website is really terrible.  I have no idea what they think they are doing with a website so wretchedly designed.  They violate Retail Rule Number One, i.e., "make it easy for people to buy what they really want and give you money!"  On the other hand, if you watch for deals where you can buy lifetime licenses of their better VSTs on sale (Jup 6/8, the Junos, the 101, some others) then those are bargains and the synths are extremely good.  

 

I have the Juno 106 VST on a lifetime license and it truly sounds fabulous.  I know digital from analog, inside and out, upside and down, and I'm tellin' ya - it sounds just great.  

 

I'm on the fence whether to buy a System-8 or not.  I would totally love the hardware interface for the wonderful virtual analogs, no question.  But I can get the software for so much less money and I'm quite used to programming MIDI controllers to twiddle soft synth parameters.  However, one thing with System-8 is that the effects are not just tacked on at the end of the signal path, but can be programmed and modded as an integral part of a patch.  Nick Batt did an entire YT on this via Sonic State.  

 

nat

 

 

 

 

 

[ElmerJFudd]

Some things to know about Roland Cloud and what instruments run on what hardware.  
 

https://www.roland.com/us/support/by_product/rc_zenology/support_documents/319ed642-8e1d-4b0b-a6ec-5d730f30cd8d/

“ZENOLOGY comes in multiple versions to suit your musical needs. Get started using ZENOLOGY Lite for free with just a Roland Account. Or get the standard version of ZENOLOGY plus thousands of extra sounds included with Roland Cloud Core membership. And when you're ready, you can upgrade to the full power of ZENOLOGY Pro with Roland Cloud Pro and Ultimate memberships that also include all Model Expansions, Wave Expansions, and Sound Packs. Or own ZENOLOGY Pro forever with a Lifetime Key purchase. ”

 

“ZENOLOGY Pro works seamlessly with compatible Roland hardware like FANTOM, JUPITER-X, JUNO-X, and the RD-88.” 

 

 

[Greg Mein]

19 hours ago, David Emm said:

Wow, those are two extreme polar opposites. Greg, I'm sorry your experience smells of dead fish.

A lot of the frustration for me is that I didn't really want to dig into all this software. My situation has changed and I'm back to being a live band leader, I just want to have the gear making the right sounds so I can concentrate on other things. I'll be playing guitar and will only take a couple of turns at the keyboard.

 

This leads to a slightly different but related rant, what happened to editor/librarian programs? Way back when I bought a new XP-30 it came with a disc that included samples, promo material and a fantastic OEM version of Sound Diver. You could deep dive into tweaking patches and saving presets from the full size screen of a computer and then save it all with a midi connection to the keyboard. I was really surprised when the FA-08 didn't include any software.

 

So now the RD-88 only came with a manual, it's like de-evolution. They won't take any time to create, or commission, an editor program but spend all day telling you how great their sound cloud is. It's a confusing space where the lines between hardware, software, plug-ins and wifi blur.

 

Others are writing that the RD-88 is pretty deep in regards to being able to edit sounds (the Zenology engine whatever that means). This is probably where I'll go but it will be a pain having to do it all on the little display, ugh.

[ElmerJFudd]

57 minutes ago, Greg Mein said:

A lot of the frustration for me is that I didn't really want to dig into all this software. My situation has changed and I'm back to being a live band leader, I just want to have the gear making the right sounds so I can concentrate on other things. I'll be playing guitar and will only take a couple of turns at the keyboard.

 

This leads to a slightly different but related rant, what happened to editor/librarian programs? Way back when I bought a new XP-30 it came with a disc that included samples, promo material and a fantastic OEM version of Sound Diver. You could deep dive into tweaking patches and saving presets from the full size screen of a computer and then save it all with a midi connection to the keyboard. I was really surprised when the FA-08 didn't include any software.

 

So now the RD-88 only came with a manual, it's like de-evolution. They won't take any time to create, or commission, an editor program but spend all day telling you how great their sound cloud is. It's a confusing space where the lines between hardware, software, plug-ins and wifi blur.

 

Others are writing that the RD-88 is pretty deep in regards to being able to edit sounds (the Zenology engine whatever that means). This is probably where I'll go but it will be a pain having to do it all on the little display, ugh.

If I understand correctly the Zenology software is  where you load and tweak all your sounds that run on that engine.  You then send those patches over to your hardware - RD88 or Jupiter-X what have you. 

[Greg Mein]

25 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

If I understand correctly the Zenology software is  where you load and tweak all your sounds that run on that engine.  You then send those patches over to your hardware - RD88 or Jupiter-X what have you. 

So that's what I was just exploring with the hope that I could perhaps use Zenology as an editor for RD-88 sounds. I can buy Zenology Pro from the Roland Sound Cloud app for $229. Turns out that Zenology is apparently some sort of plug-in synth emulation. It appears sound editing tools are there and there are patches that can be tweaked but since it has to run within Ableton, Logic, DP, etc. how would I send my tweaked sounds out to the RD-88? The more I uncover the more confusing it gets.

 

Tones (ZENOLOGY Pro / ZENOLOGY)4,106 Tones
109 Drum kitsTones (ZENOLOGY Lite)240 Tones
10 Drum kits
*ZENOLOGY Lite cannot save or write user data
*ZENOLOGY Lite cannot Import or Export User Tone/Drum Kit data

Host ApplicationVST instruments (VSTi) version: VST 3.7 compatible
Audio Units (AU) version: V2 Audio Units compatible
AAX Compatible

 

The Zenology Specs tab allude to being able to read/write, import/export with the pro version.

 

[David Emm]

I passed on Xenology Lite because its the teaser for the Pro version. I'm not that Roland-crazy, nor did I want to go semi-all-in with too many of my instruments in the Cloud, even good ones. Its been a good warm-up experience for Things To Come. Its more profitable to sell only software, so we'll continue to see small skirmishes over it. Just look at how fast a customer uprising caused Waves to pull back from a subscription-only plan to the original option of buying stand-alones. 

 

The main encouragement I can offer has always applied to any new synth: RTFM, which includes a healthy dollop of digging time so as to get your library well in-hand. I had shoeboxes full of effing floppies for three different instruments, so you bet I had to build up my fundamental sets, with safeties. I caused a few floppy drives to emit a puff of smoke and join my wretched carbon footprint, but it paid off. 

 

I'm not a candidate for an RD-88, so my knowledge of its particulars is only so deep, but since you're not keys-oriented, I'd say tweaking the sounds it came with is the most pragmatic path. I'd want to pack it with layered Xenology patches that sounded far larger than the slim package would suggest. That's an amazing option. The reality feels more like this being the piano version of a VR-09, with potent abilities you can only access while standing on your head. Before you toss it, bite the bullet of the limited display and see if you can get your clav up & running.

[ElmerJFudd]

I’m on the road this week and don’t have an rd88 to try out things on. But very interested in how capable Zencore and the RD88 are.  
 

What can we glean from these… 

 

 

[ElmerJFudd]

Ok I watched and read.  

The RD88 can accept wave expansion files designed for/compatible with RD88 from the Roland Cloud.  Roland marks them as/for RD88 in their cloud library.  You use a USB stick to get them over to the keyboard and import them. I assume there is a limit on storage space in RD88, I don’t know what it is.  But these wave files aren’t huge.  
 

The RD88 can also load Zencore Pro patches that run on the Zencore engine already present on the RD88.   You use Zencore Pro on your computer, not the lite version, to create them or get them from Roland Cloud cloud.  Similarly you transfer these patches (there are at least two types of patches but they Zencore patches) to the RD88 (or other Zencore synths) and then import and make them available on the hardware. 
 

On the RD88 the process requires too many button clicks, enters, exits, selections, scrolls, command choosing, confirmations and such because of the little screen, primitive (or perhaps barebones is a better word) operating system on the instrument.  But most of us are used to that.  Once the wave expansions or patches are present you reboot to make them available for easier access through placement in scenes.  
 

So, essentially, yes you can have the same sounds you use and/or create on your computer with Zencore Pro along with you when you travel with just your RD88.  

 

What I’d like to see Roland do is release maybe two or three tiers of controllers.  Cheap stuff, semi pro, and premium action/build models in 61, 76, 88k weighted, semi weighted and designed to interact with, control and  play with Zencore Pro running on your own computing device (PC, iPad, Mac, whatever).  $399-$1kish. No need to pay for DSP in the controller to run the engine if you’ve already invested in a computing device and prefer that.  Of course they can and should continue to offer complete instruments for people who prefer to work that way. Either way, they would win with customers by thinking about ease of use in designing and rolling out a system like this across their whole line.  

[Greg Mein]

On 3/29/2023 at 4:17 PM, David Emm said:

I'm not a candidate for an RD-88, so my knowledge of its particulars is only so deep, but since you're not keys-oriented, I'd say tweaking the sounds it came with is the most pragmatic path. I'd want to pack it with layered Xenology patches that sounded far larger than the slim package would suggest. That's an amazing option. The reality feels more like this being the piano version of a VR-09, with potent abilities you can only access while standing on your head. Before you toss it, bite the bullet of the limited display and see if you can get your clav up & running.

 

This is my wife's keyboard that we bought for live gigs after my old Privia PX-3 became unreliable. It was my idea to buy this one and I did it on blind loyalty since I've owned a number of Roland boards over the years including the FA-08 which has been retired to my studio. Overall it has the sounds she needs, plays great and is solid. She got up to speed with it quickly which was great because I didn't want to have to be messing around with it.

 

The issue arrises because I'm going to walk over to this keyboard and play Superstition while she plays the EWI-5000 and I discovered the Clav sounds on this thing are the worst I've ever heard. Before, when we were a duo, I had my Korg Krome 61 always in front of me which I used to play a few songs and it also was the sound generator for the DP midi backing tracks I'd created. It has fantastic Clav sounds but now that we're moving into full live band territory I didn't plan to take it.

 

So now what to do for such a singular little one dimensional problem? I believe I'll try the free trial membership but first I need to watch the import/export video that I hope will be helpful in understanding how to transfer sounds between the Zenology plug-in and the RD-88. If I could get that to work for me it's likely the best route. the idea of trying to tweak things on that tiny little screen makes me shutter.

 

 

[RABid]

This is the easy way to connect and move patches if the keyboard supports it. Not sure about the RD-88. I wish the MC-707 supported this method. It is great on the Jupiters. (Good to see Ed Diaz back doing things for Roland)

 

 

[Greg Mein]

Installing the EXZ011 Classic EPs wave expansion turned out to be the quick fix. Costs $20 but there are a couple of far better Clav sounds in there that will work for me and now I can stop worrying and whining for a while.