Volume too low on multi-track recording

[LiveMusic]

This is my first demo on Fostex MR8. The volume is too low and I have done this twice and I have read the manual over and over, I have read the FAQ for Fostex and a guy on their forum has instructed me, to no avail. But he doesn't have an MR8.

 

I did not plan on using any other software, once I upload via USB to the laptop. Although, I have Audacity on it and I can if I need to. I am new to recording. If I need to do something, whatever, to make the recording sound as good as I can, that's what I want to do. But I assumed you could do your tracks on the Fostex, upload to computer the stereo WAV file via USB and then convert to MP3. That's what the book says.

 

My problem, again, is the volume is too low. I did a re-do after I read a FAQ about what to do if the song volume is too low. I followed what they said with Fader levels and all but it came out the same.

 

I did...

 

1. Record acous gtr on 1

2. Record vocal on 2

3. Record acous gtr on 3

4. Bounce all to 7/8

5. Created stereo WAV file from 7/8

6. Upload via USB to laptop

7. Use Audacity to "save as" MP3

 

For inputs, the trim was set almost to max. It was on 8 out of 9 dots, almost max.

 

Quality is fine but volume is lower than other recordings I have done in various ways, such as with a Tascam Pocketstudio5 (which I returned and traded for the Fostex).

 

Thanks for any help. Just trying to make the best demo's I can.

[coyote]

I don't have Audacity, but I presume it has WAV editing functions. Perhaps you ought 'normalize' the WAV file prior to conversion to mp3; normalization brings up the volume of the entire track.

[videoeditor1]

Volume to loow =

 

1. Not enough gain

 

and/or

 

2. Impedance mismatching.

 

Spell out how you get from the acoustic guitar to the MMR.

 

NYC Drew

[kylen]

Originally posted by LiveMusic:

For inputs, the trim was set almost to max. It was on 8 out of 9 dots, almost max.

Can you get the 'peak' light to come on with the trim set to max (then back it off just before it peaks) ? If not maybe you just need an external preamp to record the track hotter. If there's a way to tell on the metering an average level between -12dB and -6dB is probably OK, peaks no higher than -6dB or -4dB, that kind of thing should be OK - yes ?

 

If the track volumes are OK and you are talking about the bounce volume of tracks 7/8 then I guess it's a different issue. Maybe the track or master faders are too low during the bounce - that's an obvious one though.

[LiveMusic]

Originally posted by kylen:

Originally posted by LiveMusic:

For inputs, the trim was set almost to max. It was on 8 out of 9 dots, almost max.

Can you get the 'peak' light to come on with the trim set to max (then back it off just before it peaks) ? If not maybe you just need an external preamp to record the track hotter. If there's a way to tell on the metering an average level between -12dB and -6dB is probably OK, peaks no higher than -6dB or -4dB, that kind of thing should be OK - yes ?

 

If the track volumes are OK and you are talking about the bounce volume of tracks 7/8 then I guess it's a different issue. Maybe the track or master faders are too low during the bounce - that's an obvious one though.

I don't think I have ever gotten the Peak red light to flash. Even shouting.

 

Dak mentioned something about "normalising" as well as someone above in this thread. I have never come across "normalising" in the manual. Is this something that I would routinely do to the stereo WAV file once I get it open in Audacity?

 

All I did in Audacity is "save as" MP3.

 

However, there is a section in Fostex manual on Mastering and it confuses me. I mean, there is a dedicated button but is this only for when you go from MR8 to a master recorder?

 

It says...

 

The MR8 provides the deciated mastering effects for the stereo buses L and R. You can use the mastering effects when bouncing more than one track to stereo tracks or when mxing down tracks 1 through 8 to stereo and sent to an external master recorder for recording.

 

Three mastering effect types are available. You can select a desired type using the MASTERING keys (POWERFUL, NATURAL and BRIGHT). The selected key is lit.

 

POWERFUL -- adds power to the sound. Good for rock.

NATURAL -- Slightly adds power to the sound. Good for acoustic music.

BRIGHT -- Add brightness to the sound. Good for ues when the mixed sound is dark.

 

NOTE -- when making the mastering effect active, the audio output level increases. Therefore, if you make it active or deactive while monitoring audio, the monitoring level suddenly changes.

 

As for NYC Drew question, uh, acoustic guitar cable into the MR8 through the 1/4" guitar thingy for Input A and switch the button on back to "guitar" instead of "mic/line."

[Philip OKeefe]

There's a few possible things that could have been the culprit:

 

1. Levels too low while recording individual tracks. It doesn't sound like this is the case since you said "For inputs, the trim was set almost to max. It was on 8 out of 9 dots, almost max." I am not familiar with that Fostex (except for seeing it briefly at a trade show), so I'm not sure if the "dots" you're talking about are actual level meters or just "dots" on the volume / gain control. If they're level meters, then you've got the input set just fine. You want a good strong signal level without going "over" or peaking.

 

I agree with Drew - it will help us to know how you are connecting the acoustic (and vocal mics) into the Fostex, and what you're using for a mic.

 

EDIT - sounds like you have the acoustic interfaced to the Fostex just fine.

 

2. A low level when bouncing (ping ponging / submixing) to tracks 7/8. Again, you need to listen and watch those meters as you're doing the submix. Get the submix balanced out the way you want it (insofar as relative volumes of the vocals and instruments) while getting those recording levels on tracks 7/8 as hot as possible without going "over" and peaking.

 

3. It's not uncommon to have a well recorded song that sounds considerably softer in volume when compared to commercial CD's - remember, they've been mastered and compressed and in a lot of cases, slammed flat in an effort to make them "louder" - don't worry about that too much.

 

If you want to do something quick and dirty, you can try normalizing in your computer - but if you use "peak" normalization, all you're doing is raising the level of each song's loudest peak to just under 0 dBFS. Different songs can / will therefore have different apparent volumes when played back - peak volume and "average" volume (RMS) are not the same thing. Instead, try using RMS normalization, set to something like - 16 dBFS. That should leave some dynamics in it, and if you use that same value, each song will sound approximately the same level wise.

[kylen]

Originally posted by LiveMusic:

I don't think I have ever gotten the Peak red light to flash. Even shouting.

IMO you have an input gain issue with these symptoms. Either the things being recorded (guitar pickup, mic or your lungs) do not provide enough power, or the preamps on the Fostex are not sufficient. This is just a guess but the metering during recording and on playback should give you a clue too. If you turn up recording preamps too high because of a problem at the recording source then your noise floor comes up. You'll hear that later when if you push into a compressor during mixing and mastering.

 

As for the 'auto-mastering' presets they may sound good on some things and not so good on others. I've been looking for the auto-master button on a DAW since 1998, hehe - there just isn't one. I guess it probably has some master bus EQ, compression and peak limiters kinda like a T-Racks type thing. You might want to make some safety copies without that just in case you want to re-master your stuff later on. I always like to retweak certain things later as my situation improves over time.

[coyote]

If that's the case the unit has to be defective. I've *never* had a problem pushing any Fostex product into saturation.

Originally posted by kylen:

Originally posted by LiveMusic:

I don't think I have ever gotten the Peak red light to flash. Even shouting.

IMO you have an input gain issue with these symptoms. Either the things being recorded (guitar pickup, mic or your lungs) do not provide enough power, or the preamps on the Fostex are not sufficient.

[Franknputer]

By the way - in Audacity, under the Effects menu there is "Amplify..." which you can use to raise/lower the amplitude (volume) of a waveform by a specified amount, in dB. Remember that 3 dB= 2x power, so if it's really weak don't be surprised if you have to go 6 dB or more.

 

By doing this, rather than normalizing, you can affect several files while maintaining their relative balance to each other.

[LiveMusic]

I dunno, before I go too far bugging everybody I am going to do this over again. Lots of knobs and buttons to learn about. I am not 100% sure the trim was up to where I have it on the ORIGINAL tracks I recorded. Can't say for sure.

 

The Fostex guy that I am dealing with, I don't think English is his first language based on what I read. I'm not sure I am following him 100%.

 

One more thing... this Mastering button I mentioned that has three more buttons associated with it... I'll say again what the manual says...

 

It says...

 

The MR8 provides the deciated mastering effects for the stereo buses L and R. You can use the mastering effects when bouncing more than one track to stereo tracks or when mxing down tracks 1 through 8 to stereo and sent to an external master recorder for recording.

 

Three mastering effect types are available. You can select a desired type using the MASTERING keys (POWERFUL, NATURAL and BRIGHT). The selected key is lit.

 

POWERFUL -- adds power to the sound. Good for rock.

NATURAL -- Slightly adds power to the sound. Good for acoustic music.

BRIGHT -- Add brightness to the sound. Good for ues when the mixed sound is dark.

 

NOTE -- when making the mastering effect active, the audio output level increases. Therefore, if you make it active or deactive while monitoring audio, the monitoring level suddenly changes.

 

QUESTION: Is this something I would normally do to a mix? The manual is not clear on this.

[Franknputer]

If I were you, I'd skip the "Mastering" stuff & do it in the PC.