Should I replace my Prophet 6 for live use?

[ImproKeys]

Dear members,

I'd like to hear your opinions / experiences. My main board is a Nord Stage 2 HA 76 which I absolutely love. (Although the new Stage 4 looks tempting.)

I am preparing a setlist for a funk / acid jazz covers act, where I often only need EP, AP, sometimes organ and the occasional lead or pad sound.

 

I find the Stage's synth okay but times to times too limited (I know that this is the concept). Maybe I am spoiled because I have a Prophet 6 and a Subsequent 37 in my man cave.

 

My "problem": although I do love the Prophet 6 sound and prefer it to the Stage's any time, often I am much faster in programming sounds on the Stage than on the Prophet. Especially when it comes to pad sounds, it sometimes is so easy to load a more-or-less alike sample and tweak it.

 

So I am thinking if I should "downsize" to the Stage 2 - I tried using a Arturia Keylab midi'd to the Stage as a top tier board playing the internal sounds and that works pretty good. Then I would only have to ignore my thoughts about better synth sounds.

Since I am mostly a live player (even if I can get lost in sounds in the basement for many hours in the night), I am debating with myself wether I should replace the Prophet 6 with a Wave 2 or even switch to the Stage 4 in some weeks. I could even see myself selling the Prophet 6 albeit it seems everybody is considering it a classic which shouldn't be sold.

 

My mind changed a lot about that subject so your thoughts are very welcome 🙂

 

Thanks,

improkeys

[marczellm]

If I'm hauling a top board anyway, I'd bring the one that makes myself feel better. Is something about the Prophet bothering you? Too much time to program? Too heavy? Too big? Too expensive to risk damaging in the tour bus? Why would you get rid of it?

[B4i]

I also have a Stage 2(EX) and you are right, its quick to get a useable sound, especially for pads

 

The Prophet 6 however is on the more accessible end of synths for quickly getting to a sound - I have an original Wave and its fairly similar concept and used a few different P6 soft synths. 

 

You mention using a sample on the Stage. Is that making it quicker for you? Rather than on the P6 needing to start with raw oscillators to build the sound? If so swapping out to a Stage 4 or Wave will get you similar results to your Stage 2 as the raw samples are the same (ok the S4 uses the latest V4 library and Wave V3 but it wont be night and day compared to the Stage 2 library). 

[ImproKeys]

23 minutes ago, marczellm said:

If I'm hauling a top board anyway, I'd bring the one that makes myself feel better. Is something about the Prophet bothering you? Too much time to program? Too heavy? Too big? Too expensive to risk damaging in the tour bus? Why would you get rid of it?

 

Thanks for your questions - Bothering? No. Too much time: maybe yes, maybe I am still too much of a beginner. Too heavy or big? Good case, no risk. Great questions to make up my mind.

 

18 minutes ago, B4i said:

The Prophet 6 however is on the more accessible end of synths for quickly getting to a sound - I have an original Wave and its fairly similar concept and used a few different P6 soft synths. 

 

If so swapping out to a Stage 4 or Wave will get you similar results to your Stage 2 as the raw samples are the same (ok the S4 uses the latest V4 library and Wave V3 but it wont be night and day compared to the Stage 2 library). 

Ok, so there is no mayor sonic improvement in the synth section from the Stage 2 upwards? Thats good to know. I only tried the Wave 2 in the store and could not compare to anything in the short time. Maybe it is rewarding spending some more time on programming my P6. Thanks!

[Stokely]

My impression--as someone who has not owned a Stage--is that the Stage 3 was a pretty big step forward for the synth section (???)  I know the Stage 3 has, basically, a Nord Lead A1 synth built in.  I don't think that was the case for the Stage 2 but I will stand corrected if I'm wrong.

I had a somewhat similar situation with my Novation Summit.  In my case, I made a choice between having a more dedicated organ keyboard and a synth like the Summit and for now the organ won out (I've done this dance before).

 

[ImproKeys]

(One thing that bothers me with the P6 is the lack of a display - so I have to have a cheat sheet for the patches)

[CyberGene]

I've been pretty happy with my Take 5. It can certainly go in the territory of Prophet 6 sound-wise (of course it can't sound so rich and fat, a Prophet is a Prophet) but then it can go much beyond due to the extended mod-matrix. It's also lightweight and relatively cheap. On our latest rehearsal we did Streets of Philadelphia where there's a rather basic soft analog pad throughout the song. I first tried to find something suitable on my CP88 which has a very small but usable selection of pads but none came close. Out of desperation I started with an init patch on the Take 5 which is basically a single saw. I added another oscillator, slightly detuned it, closed the filter slightly, switched on the chorus effect and increased the release. All that within something like 5-10 seconds and the other guys were really impressed and said "wow, you must be very experienced with that synth" 🤣

[MAJUSCULE]

Are you programming your sounds beforehand or do you need to come up with new sounds on the spot? The Stage 3’s synth is very good and I imagine the 4’s will be even better with the three parts and extra effect flexibility. It can probably tick more spec boxes than the P6. Did you buy the Prophet for the tone? I’m guessing that would be the reasoning for most people, along with the panel for ease of quick tweaking. If you’re finding it hard to program, you may benefit from spending a little more time with it (and the manual or some instructional videos).

 

It sounds like you’re pretty happy with the Stage 2’s tone for gigging purposes. Nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong with trying to improve your tone either, even if you’re the only one who notices. 

[Tusker]

I think the analog differences only come through with exposed sounds so that’s where you might wonder if you are missing something with the Nord. Your standard pad can be done on any good synth.
 

I don’t understand what you mean by getting sounds together faster on the Stage. Isn’t laboring too long in your dungeon for the sounds no one will hear precisely what keyboardists do? If it doesn’t hurt you are not doing it right.

 

Just kidding. If the prophet is doing audio rate modulation (poly mod) you might miss that grunge. Some folks run a digital synth through an effects pedal for some grunge. It’s different but it also works.
 

I used to play with a funk/jam band where everybody looked forward to those analog solos when the lfos were going nuts and the space delay was at eleven. But that’s maybe one song in a set or maybe one song a night.

 

Is it worth the trouble? I dunno. Only you can answer that. But you play differently when you love your tone. 

[Stokely]

Tusker hits the other reason my Summit is at home, despite the fact that its a great synth (though only partly analog).  The differences between what the Modx and Summit can do in a live band situation are minimal.   Heck I was listening to a live journey vid, which I presume was carefully mixed after the fact and is orders of magnitude more big time than my band, and the Prophet being used on that song could have been anything really...just a little high pitched thing in the background.

When you A/B in a vacuum the differences show more but even then it depends on the sounds you use.

All that said, I still am considering adding a Prophet or other desktop unit to my rig...depends on whether I get a Fantom, which has pretty strong synth sounds.  Sometimes things don't have to be logical!

[ImproKeys]

3 hours ago, MAJUSCULE said:

Did you buy the Prophet for the tone? I’m guessing that would be the reasoning for most people, along with the panel for ease of quick tweaking.

 

It sounds like you’re pretty happy with the Stage 2’s tone for gigging purposes. Nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong with trying to improve your tone either, even if you’re the only one who notices. 

Yes; I bought a Rev2 a while ago with a different project in mind and found I did not bond with it. I sold it and got the P6 which I immediately felt connected to soundwise. Now I want to take it out of the basement and onto the road. So kind of a luxury problem here. 

3 hours ago, Tusker said:

I think the analog differences only come through with exposed sounds so that’s where you might wonder if you are missing something with the Nord. Your standard pad can be done on any good synth.
 

I used to play with a funk/jam band where everybody looked forward to those analog solos when the lfos were going nuts and the space delay was at eleven. But that’s maybe one song in a set or maybe one song a night.

 

Is it worth the trouble? I dunno. Only you can answer that. But you play differently when you love your tone. 

I think this is spot on - mostly the choice is made for myself, not the song or the audience. You just got me thinking about playing more solos. The arrangements need an overhaul anyway!

[aronnelson]

I haven't tried a modern true analog in a long time for live use, but the polyphonic ones were not as good as the single voice lead synths. The polyphonic ones used to bunch up all the voices into a one massive sound. I'm sure it's changed by now (I hope) but for me it was always more fun to solo with a monophonic one voice lead synth. I am in the same way..... not many solos and therefore I only bring one keyboard now. 😞 It's been a long time since the VL1 or Sequential Pro One was a must bring keyboard.

[Stokely]

Yeah, to go against almost my entire post above...if you feel inspired by the instrument, that's worth something right there.

Of all the rigs I've brought out, only one thing has ever really brought compliments by patrons or even my band:  my spider pro stand, which I don't even use much now in favor of my other K&M!   I've changed keyboards a bunch of times and my band doesn't even notice.  Our singer looked at my Modx not long ago and asked "is that a new keyboard?"  Sure, two years ago when I started using it..... But screw everyone else,  I have fond memories of playing and tweaking my Virus live, that thing could melt faces or be soft and expressive (and my Summit I consider kind of a "hi-fi Virus").

I don't know if they are quite as good, but you can do a regular monophonic patch on most poly synths (if not all).  Just don't stack in unison (though that is where you get the face-melting that I mentioned above  )

[ImproKeys]

20 minutes ago, Stokely said:

Of all the rigs I've brought out, only one thing has ever really brought compliments by patrons or even my band:  my spider pro stand, which I don't even use much now in favor of my other K&M! 

Funny that you mention it. As a matter of fact now I need a two tier stand and was eyeing towards the spider pro. I do own the Omega pro, but the second tier is way to far away for my taste. I like the 18880, but changing the height of the stand is much more complicated (I use it in the studio with three boards and sitting). 

 

I do find the unisono sound on the P6 really good, but yes, you should not stack more than two voices.

And yes, the Moog mono synth is a different beast.

 

When I think about it, maybe I am thinking I have to justify owning these great instruments; and this is done by playing them live and not only noodling at home. 🙂

[aronnelson]

No need to justify! Lead synths are FUN! That's why I have 2 Pro Ones, Micromoog, VL1, Odyssey, OB-1 etc.... but half have died in some manner now 😞

I wish I had an Oberheim 2 voice. That one eluded me.

I know people don't like the X stands here, but they are convenient for the gigs I do. I have the invisible, the ultimate, another weird robot looking stand etc.. but the X stand works and yes, I have even used a waiter stand when the off island gig didn't have a stand. Oh well. I'm sure we have paid our dues.