Process #4 - Recording Bass

[KuruPrionz]

LOTS of different ways to do this, I hope some of you share yours. 

I live in a 3 story 6 unit condo building with a neighbor next door and one above me. I don't get loud, it wouldn't sound good in a small room anyway. I've learned to track music that might sound like it is loud but I run direct most of the time. 

 

FWIW, I started on acoustic guitar, got an electric bass and played in a band for a bit, then went to electric guitar but I've always had a bass around and I like playing bass. Very different instrument than a guitar. Fun!

 

My basses are nothing fancy or high end but they are solid and play well. My fretted bass is a Peavey Fury, an older "Handcrafted In the USA" model. Great bass, more or less a P-Bass with a very slim neck. My fretless bass is a P-bass with a Warmoth Jazz neck with ebony fretboard. I filled the fret slots with white epoxy so it's fully marked. Both basses are equipped with Schaller tuners and EMG P pickups.

Both are tuned EADG low to high. I'm using D"Addario Chromes on both basses, they are flat wound but unusually bright for flat wounds. I like that there is little to no string noise when sliding my fingers up and down the fretboard (especially on the fretless!!!).

 

My current go-to setup is to plug my bass into a Tech 21 Q/Strip. The labels for the top row of knobs is hidden in this photo, Level, Bass, Lo-Mid, Hi-Mid and High. The two Mid controls are quasi-parametric with a smooth, broad boost or cut. I like to turn the Bass knob well up, put the frequency for the Lo-Mid to about 350 hz and cut it, slight boost in the Hi-Mid at about 2k and a slight boost on the highs. I run the Q/Strip at microphone level, plugged into an SSL 2+ interface and since it runs on phantom power I use a short mic cable and switch the 48v on for that channel. I play with a thin, medium-thin or medium pick most of the time, sometimes I use fingers or thumb or both.

 

I like to have the level peaking at around -3db when tracking. Once I've cut a good track, I will copy and paste the audio into a second track. The first track gets a limiter put on it, lately that's been the IK Stealth Limiter (Thanks to Craig Anderson for recommending this plugin, it's good and easy to use) from their TrackS line. I just want to even up the transients a bit to the rest of the tone, I don't want it to sound squashed.

 

The second track gets a high pass filter eliminating everything below around 200hz. I add some harmonic distortion to this track. I'm still experimenting with various plugins for this, the Fuchs Overdrive Supreme 50 guitar amp plugin sounds great but there are lots of options here. This track usually gets mixed low. I don't want a "fuzz bass" at all and I don't crank up the gain too high. This is to make the bass translate on small crappy speakers or earbuds. A bassist friend of mine was impressed that he could hear the bass on one of my tracks played back on his cell phone, just the tiny, cheap speaker. Of course there were no real low frequencies but you could clearly hear the bass in the context of the mix. Which is why I go to the trouble, put it on some better speakers and there is plenty of deep, full bottom end and the distortion is low enough to work well in almost any context. That's how I've been recording my bass parts for quite a while now, what do you do? Please share, we can all learn more ways of doing things!!!! Cheers, Kuru

[kaptainkeys]

The main studio I work in is in my school where our live room doubles as a classroom and a band practice space, so it is often in use when I need to record.  When I record bass (either when I'm playing it or somebody else is) I just go direct into a DI box into the snake in our control room into the interface and throw on an amp sim when I get to the mixing stage (if even I need it).

[KuruPrionz]

5 hours ago, kaptainkeys said:

The main studio I work in is in my school where our live room doubles as a classroom and a band practice space, so it is often in use when I need to record.  When I record bass (either when I'm playing it or somebody else is) I just go direct into a DI box into the snake in our control room into the interface and throw on an amp sim when I get to the mixing stage (if even I need it).

Straightforward and simple. I've used a few bass amp sims, my least expensive version of Amplitube (maybe it was free?) has an Ampeg SVT head plugin that sounds really good. Some guitar amps sound better than I thought they would, don't remember which ones now. 

I've recorded bass straight in many times and will probably do it again at some point. 

[kaptainkeys]

42 minutes ago, KuruPrionz said:

Straightforward and simple. I've used a few bass amp sims, my least expensive version of Amplitube (maybe it was free?) has an Ampeg SVT head plugin that sounds really good. Some guitar amps sound better than I thought they would, don't remember which ones now. 

I've recorded bass straight in many times and will probably do it again at some point. 

Yeah in my school we've got a copy of Amplitube 4 (I think the free version).   While the amps aren't exactly amazing they certainly do the job for both bass and guitar in a mix context, the only really big con of Amplitube is how much DSP it uses up.  I've had issues when running double tracked rhythm parts plus bass and lead guitar plus EQ and compression and reverbs and delays on other tracks too.

[KuruPrionz]

2 hours ago, kaptainkeys said:

Yeah in my school we've got a copy of Amplitube 4 (I think the free version).   While the amps aren't exactly amazing they certainly do the job for both bass and guitar in a mix context, the only really big con of Amplitube is how much DSP it uses up.  I've had issues when running double tracked rhythm parts plus bass and lead guitar plus EQ and compression and reverbs and delays on other tracks too.

There is a workaround for that. First, do all of your tracking before you start adding plugins. That helps in keeping your latency at a usable setting. 

Once all the tracks are recorded, you can increase latency without complicating the tracking process. 

As you add plugins you may need to add latency. 

At a certain point, with some tracks/plugins you will be able to "commit" by printing the track with the plugin and replacing it with the new track that has the sound of the plugin included. That gets rid of plugins, reducing the DSP. 

Other plugins may need to stay as you will want to tweak them to adjust the mix. EQ and compression come to mind.

Often with effects you can commit. If you've decided to add chorus to a guitar and it sounds good, commit, print and replace. 

Hopefully that is helpful.

[kaptainkeys]

2 hours ago, KuruPrionz said:

There is a workaround for that. First, do all of your tracking before you start adding plugins. That helps in keeping your latency at a usable setting. 

Once all the tracks are recorded, you can increase latency without complicating the tracking process. 

As you add plugins you may need to add latency. 

At a certain point, with some tracks/plugins you will be able to "commit" by printing the track with the plugin and replacing it with the new track that has the sound of the plugin included. That gets rid of plugins, reducing the DSP. 

Other plugins may need to stay as you will want to tweak them to adjust the mix. EQ and compression come to mind.

Often with effects you can commit. If you've decided to add chorus to a guitar and it sounds good, commit, print and replace. 

Hopefully that is helpful.

Yeah I don't use amp sims or effects until mixing time

[KuruPrionz]

6 minutes ago, kaptainkeys said:

Yeah I don't use amp sims or effects until mixing time

I've added a plugin and had that track get out of sync with the other tracks (some with plugins also).

At that point, I've deleted the plugin that caused the problem, exported all the other tracks with plugins and replaced them.

Adding the plugin again sounds fine so I export and replace that track too. 

 

Looking forward to moving back to my condo and firing up my Mac Mini M1 instead of this 2014 MacBook Pro. the Mini rips!!!!

[Dave Bryce]

I tend to prefer going direct to record bass.

 

My input chain of choice - Groove Tubes VIPre (eight tubes stages when you use the front panel input) into a Summit TLA-100 compressor.  🥰

 

Occasionally, I split the signal and track an amp as well so I can pan it to about 2:00 with the direct signal panned to 10:00 to add a bit of dimension, or so I can have a slightly different sound to process with a touch of reverb and other fx (usually the amp track) and blend it in with the dry signal.

 

dB

[KuruPrionz]

36 minutes ago, Dave Bryce said:

I tend to prefer going direct to record bass.

 

My input chain of choice - Groove Tubes VIPre (eight tubes stages when you use the front panel input) into a Summit TLA-100 compressor.  🥰

 

Occasionally, I split the signal and track an amp as well so I can pan it to about 2:00 with the direct signal panned to 10:00 to add a bit of dimension, or so I can have a slightly different sound to process with a touch of reverb and other fx (usually the amp track) and blend it in with the dry signal.

 

dB

Nice, that should sound solid!

I've put an effect or two on the bass, as in the OP, I copy the original track and drop a high pass filter on the track I'm going to add effects to - keeps the low end clean and full. I usually leave the main bass track in the center, I've put tracks out to the sides with effects to give it a stereo spread. I've found the more I do with the bass the more I have to subtract from other parts to make room in the mix. 

This usually happens anyway, my tendency is to pile in clutter and then start getting rid of it again!! 

[Anderton]

I'm a huge proponent of using pitch correction on bass to flatten pitch. Bass strings don't get along with the laws of physics. Because they're short, they're not under a lot of tension, so the pitch flops around as the string decays. This can create beat frequencies with other instruments that affect the low end's integrity.  

 

You don't want to flatten pitch for entire notes, because then you may nuke the quick attack that goes slightly sharp for a fraction of a second. The place to flatten the pitch is right after the attack, during the decay. Because the amount of the shift is so small, it doesn't affect the sound quality or timbre negatively at all. 

[KuruPrionz]

14 minutes ago, Anderton said:

I'm a huge proponent of using pitch correction on bass to flatten pitch. Bass strings don't get along with the laws of physics. Because they're short, they're not under a lot of tension, so the pitch flops around as the string decays. This can create beat frequencies with other instruments that affect the low end's integrity.  

 

You don't want to flatten pitch for entire notes, because then you may nuke the quick attack that goes slightly sharp for a fraction of a second. The place to flatten the pitch is right after the attack, during the decay. Because the amount of the shift is so small, it doesn't affect the sound quality or timbre negatively at all. 

Interesting thoughts Craig, thanks for sharing!

I've always tuned my bass by waiting until the string settles from the attack (which definitely does go sharp). So far so good, maybe I'm not listening hard enough but I'm not hearing much waver in the sustain. It could be the strings I'm using as well, D'Addario Chromes are flat wound and a bit stiffer than round wound strings. 

 

Are you using a 34" scale bass? I've played my share of short scale basses, I think around 30" is a standard for that. I didn't keep them.

I am having some problems with an 8 string baritone guitar, the scale is shorter and I think I'm going to need larger gauge strings for the two lowest strings. Those are Chromes as well, the roundwound strings it came with make a LOT of finger noise because the wraps are pretty large. I've got it tuned down to A. As far as I can tell, the flat wounds throw the intonation off as well and this is a simple saddle in an acoustic guitar type of bridge so there is no easy adjustment. Not sure I'll keep this one either. 

[kaptainkeys]

Speaking about tracking bass, I did some of that this morning.  While I am definitely not Jaco Pastorius (or anywhere near his level, I started teaching myself to play like a month ago) I just plugged the bass into a DI box right into the desk into Pro Tools, nothing fancy, and it sounded great.

[KuruPrionz]

Just now, kaptainkeys said:

Speaking about tracking bass, I did some of that this morning.  While I am definitely not Jaco Pastorius (or anywhere near his level, I started teaching myself to play like a month ago) I just plugged the bass into a DI box right into the desk into Pro Tools, nothing fancy, and it sounded great.

Nice, that does happen. In fact I did that for quite some time and was pretty happy with it. 

I've also tried other ways of going about it, Amplitube has a set of Ampeg bass amps and I've used their SVT copy, really nice. I've gotten good bass tones using the Fuchs Overdrive Supreme 50 guitar amp that I got at Plugin Alliance. I've mic'ed bass amps. Different basses, different strings, etc. There truly is no one best way to record anything. 

 

Something is learned by experimenting. As I've been creating more complex mixes (and now I want to simplify!!!) I've been working on opening up the lower midrange area to bring more clarity to the mix. Many recommend just putting a high pass filter on everything but the bass and kick drum, I've tried that but I like to have some room for things like vocals in the lower mids. There are quite a few things that just sound great without any EQ and I like to give space to those things. 

 

I could EQ the bass with a plugin instead of the Q/Strip but it's really easy to use and very low noise (I can't hear it) so I just go ahead and get it going in. And while I've heard others state many times that "The kick is the low end", or "The bass is the low end", the truth is that it could be either one depending on what sounds and feels right to you for that particular recording. I've done it both ways, and will do so in the future. 

[SamuelBLupowitz]

I've been a bass player since I was 12, and since growing up everybody (jazz band, rock bands, pit orchestras, you name it) needed a bassist, I've logged a lot of hours on the instrument. I know how to get My Sound (and tailor it to the gig when necessary).

 

So, in the studio, I do enjoy trying different amps and DIs and plugins for flavor (that one studio that had an old Ampeg flip-top, mmmm mmmm mmmm). But I've realized that when it comes to recording bass, on my end, the less I get in the way of the sound of my hands on the instrument, the happier I am. I've gone direct into an interface with my J-bass strung with LaBella flats and felt like the sound is 90% there. It's special when that happens.

 

Depending on the arrangement, of course, I have to treat bass differently, but generally I just cut a bunch where the fundamental of the kick drum sits, boost a bit where the bass seems to have the most punch (with my playing, again, arrangement dependent, this tends to be around 110-120 Hz), a little compression to even it out, and voila.

 

Of course, there's always That Track where I have to fight to get it to sit right. C'est la vie...

[Anderton]

20 hours ago, KuruPrionz said:

I've always tuned my bass by waiting until the string settles from the attack (which definitely does go sharp). So far so good, maybe I'm not listening hard enough but I'm not hearing much waver in the sustain.

 

You may not hear it in isolation, but try this: tune a sine wave to the same pitch you're tuning your bass and match levels as closely as possible. Mix them together in mono. See if you hear any beating as the note decays. 

 

I don't use a short-scale bass, so that's not a factor. Maybe my strings are too old

[KuruPrionz]

Just now, Anderton said:

 

You may not hear it in isolation, but try this: tune a sine wave to the same pitch you're tuning your bass and match levels as closely as possible. Mix them together in mono. See if you hear any beating as the note decays. 

 

I don't use a short-scale bass, so that's not a factor. Maybe my strings are too old

It's also possible that I don't object to a bit of wavering pitch. If a bass on a recording does it, it also does it at a live performance. It's part of the sound to me. 

Most of the time I'm using a fairly thin pick to record so my strike may not be as vigorous as yours either, certainly can be a factor. 

 

And yeah, bass strings don't last forever. Mine are not new but they don't have a lot of play time. I've only switched to D'Addario Chromes in the last 2-3 years on the fretted bass and much more recently on the fretless. I never seem to get calls for bass work live, just guitar. Which is fine, guitar and amp are lighter and smaller than bass and amp!!!! 😇

[Anderton]

On 2/14/2023 at 12:25 PM, KuruPrionz said:

It's also possible that I don't object to a bit of wavering pitch.

 

It's mostly a problem when you have a steady pitch source, like a keyboard, and you get beat frequencies when the two interact. But for you, the thin pick is probably a factor. I should run some tests that compare "string wobble" when using fingers or using a pick.

[KuruPrionz]

Just now, Anderton said:

 

It's mostly a problem when you have a steady pitch source, like a keyboard, and you get beat frequencies when the two interact. But for you, the thin pick is probably a factor. I should run some tests that compare "string wobble" when using fingers or using a pick.

Yes, thin pick could be a factor. It also provides a clear and definite transient to the bass that I like. Type and gauge of strings could be a factor, I'm using D'Addario Chromes (flat wound) and flat wound strings do tend to be a bit "stiffer" than round wounds.

I try to keep the bass and the kick as the primary low frequencies so there isn't usually much else down there to collide. 

Lately I've been copying and pasting instrument tracks (guitars and "keys" (mostly Fishman Triple Play using synth plugins) and adding a bit of Baby Audio Pitch Drift or Eventide Micro Pitch to one of those two tracks, then panning them out of the center. That intentional pitch wavering may also be camouflage for bass string stretching. 

 

My most recent recording is in the first post of this thread, lots of bass guitar in it. Maybe you'll hear something that I don't (or that I do and like). Be weird if we were all just the same, no? 😇

 

[Paul Vnuk Jr.]

I first posted this in Kuru's "Process #1 Drums or Bass louder post" but it belongs here so:

 

My typical bass chain is to take one channel direct through a good preamp and get a clean, strong capture with the tone controls on the instrument set appropriate to the track, then, I will also track the bass through an amp (or reamp it after the client has left). Then I phase align the two in the computer. Usually, I will then sum both to the same channel and run it through a high-pass filter and a tube compressor (usually opto). Sometimes when I don't have one or am too lazy to mic one up, I will use an amp sim in parallel to the dry DI take (usually a UA or IK Ampeg)...lately though I have been living with a DI if its for more modern music styles VS jazz or classic rock (then its almost all amp and no DI).

 

The biggest thing I have learned for myself about recording bass is not to overwork it in the mix. I rarely EQ it after the initial capture. I try and sculpt the tone on the way in and let it be what it will be. Usually, I am leaning on the EQ on the amp or I use a simple High-pass filter and gentle tilt EQ to massage the tone.

 

 

[Bill Stunt]

My process is similar to Paul's. I use a DI and an amp and  phase align and sum the two signals in my DAW. I tend to compress with an Opto compressor on the way in but very gently. I also try to stay away from too much EQ. I use a Neve 1073 channel strip plugin for the bass when mixing and find that EQ is perfect for adding a bit of presence or making room for the kick. Very occasionally I'll use a Pultec EQP-1A plugin to fatten an anemic bass track but I prefer not to have to do that.

I have a great sounding bass amp in my studio, which works well most of the time, but I will use an Ampeg SVT plugin for certain tracks. I fell in love with that amp the first time I used one live on stage. It was a visceral experience. 

 

Slightly off topic...I had the opportunity to record English bassist Jah Wobble at a festival in Toronto. The mobile I was using was parked behind the venue close to the stage door. As I recall, Jah Wobble played through 5 Ampeg VSTs. It was loud! Even outside in the mobile the resonant bass from the stage was louder than what was coming from the monitors in the mobile.