(OT ish) In search of an acoustic Drum Library

[Tusker]

I am looking for an acoustic drum library which sounds better than the Logic Pro X Drummers which are good. They just lack a little in "room presence," "air," and dynamic response. You could probably improve them with some tweaking but it would be nice to work with a package that is ready to go and has a detailed sound.

 

I've heard names like GetGood Drums, Tokyo Scoring Drums, Addictive Drums, Superior Drummer, BFD,  and MODO but I am not sure if I have the ears to choose. They all sound good in the demos. Budget is about $300 and I am early in the shopping process. Any advice about how to choose will be helpful.

 

I need maybe two different kits. Definitely a lighter kit that could work with a number of jazz fusion or acoustic arrangements, and if available, a harder hitting kit (not metal!) which might evoke Carter Beauford or Keith Moon or John Bonham (different I know, but they hit hard). I am not looking for a vintage sound or significant processing. Just a lighter sound and a heavier sound of a drum kit. The lighter kit is the more important one.

 

In the lighter sound, it would be nice to have some varied metals and the ability to create an atmosphere so a nice room and mic positions would be cool. Drummers like William Kennedy (Yellowjackets), Antonio Sanchez (Pat Metheny) and Eric Harland (Terence Blanchard) come to mind.

 

No, I don't have 5% of the taste and musicianship of any of the people I mentioned, lol.

 

You can tell I am ignorant about what I am looking for. What kinds of experiences have you had with drum libraries and am I asking the right questions? Thanks in advance.

 

 

[ElmerJFudd]

Do you want an entire player with lots of presets? 
or do you just need samples?  For EXS24 or Kontakt?

Style of music? 

[Tusker]

22 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

Do you want an entire player with lots of presets? 
or do you just need samples?  For EXS24 or Kontakt?

Style of music? 

 

I was thinking sample library but I don't have a drummer's vocabulary and phrasing. Logic's "Drummer Player" generates idiomatic but general midi patterns and I was thinking of swapping samples for the patterns it generates. I am open to a different workflow. If a player generates even more vocabulary and arrangement ideas, that could be very cool. I wish DrumGenius would offer midi patterns. Are there some players you would recommend?

 

Full Kontakt or Kontakt Player is preferred for samples as I imagine they have more scripting and options than the EXS24 versions.

 

Styles of music is as above. jazz fusion, atmospheric, acoustic, studio rock

 

Thanks for these great questions. 👍

[ElmerJFudd]

Do you already own “full Kontakt”?

[johnchop]

Demo EZDrummer for sounds. Low fuss, good sounds, lots of libraries. If you're not tweaking drums to the nth degree, you can save money over Superior Drummer and go ham on kits and MIDI libraries.

 

I have Addictive Drums (great for a song-ready pop sound).  MODO sounds huge... some folks hate the cymbals. 🤷‍♂️

 

Do you have Komplete?  StudioDrummer is pretty tight sounding.

 

IMO Steinberg GrooveAgent is comparatively frustrating to work with and doesn't sound as good.

 

 

[Tusker]

1 minute ago, ElmerJFudd said:

Do you already own “full Kontakt”?

 

Yes

[Red Ranger]

MODO DRUM & Steven Slate Drums have free versions you can install. Might be worth a try before buying to see how their UIs fit your workflow.

 

I've had my eye on Handy Drums by Goran Grooves but I haven't pulled the trigger yet (trying hard not to buy anything else for a while!). Might be another one to consider (sorry, I know you're trying to narrow choices!).

 

https://library.gorangrooves.com/handy-drums-plugin-bundle-producer-collection/

 

[ElmerJFudd]

6 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

Do you already own “full Kontakt”?

You may consider NI’s Abby Road Drummer Collection.  Extensive library with the midi patterns and samples. 
 

NI Abby Road Drummer Collection

[mcgoo]

I'm a big fan of Superior Drummer 3. Sounds are stellar, control over close mics, room mics & all sorts of other mics is through the roof good. The base library has more than 3 kits and you can custom tailor them to be as small or as big as you need. Secondly, the grooves available for them are outstanding (as in, they feel real) and you can find specialized grooves for genres like fusion that aren't mainstream. IMHO, to get a better sound, you'd need a top-notch studio drummer, playing high end drums, recording in an expensive studio with a dedicated drum room, great mics & processing at the hands of an ace engineer.

 

I would also not be a big fan of just getting samples for something like Kontakt. I'm not sure that it could handle the various round robin type tricks that drum engines do well & need to sound natural. Maybe it does, but I prefer a dedicated drum VST.

[KuruPrionz]

I've owned NI Studio Drummer for a long time. 

The variety of beats and fills covers a large range. There are even a couple of beats in 3/4 time but no reggae. They do have some cool jazz beats as well. 

The drums sound very good but there aren't a lot of different kits. That said, the styles are different enough to get softer or more agressive tones. 

The mixer can be kind of frustrating, the room mics and ambient mics are can be mixed out but the drums don't sound as good without them.

No single drum program will be perfect, I like Studio Drummer and am glad to own it. 

 

I also have IK MODO Drum, Studio Drummer is all sampled and MODO Drum is both sampled and modeled. MODO Drum includes a dozen different drum sets and a wide variety of ways to tweak the drums to suit your tastes. Lots of different "songs" but no 3/4 and not much Jazz. They do have some great reggae beats. While Studio Drummer categorizes their beats as Rock, Pop, Metal, Jazz, Country and Blues, MODO Drum has "songs" and you have to decide if you like the way the song sounds instead of hunting for a genre. 

 

Interesting factoid, the MIDI tracks for both Studio Drummer and MODO Drum are nearly exchangeable, both programs will play the beats from the other one and mostly sound very close to correct in terms of which instrument plays what. That is probably true with other drum programs, it's an interesting way to expand your options. 

 

I also have NI Drum Lab but haven't spent enough time with it, Spitfire Audio LABS drums (don't remember the exact name of the plugin) which was free and I haven't used yet, and NI West Africa which is part of a series that includes China, the Middle East and other styles of drumming. 

 

I don't dislike any of the above and I'm certain I'll find them all useful as I slowly absorb what they are into my ish. 

What I DO dislike is all the plugins that sound like the old Roland 808 and 909. Those are nasty, I guess they are good for a few certain genres but I don't care. 

I've heard great sounding drum tracks from other plugins, as someone said above - try the demos and see what you like. 
In the end, you will be playing "slice and dice" with MIDI tracks, that's a way to put a track together. You can drop in fills, intros, outros, verses etc by swapping in MIDI clips. 

 

Generally speaking, I start with a beat that works for the song, track the essentials (these could end up being scratch tracks) to chart the arrangement and then I fill a track with a bunch of different fills, verse or chorus beats, etc and start building my puzzle. It gets easier each time and sounds better. My next progression will be to add tempo shifts that add to the song and then re-record everything else. 

 

Dive in!!! It will make your brain hurt but you'll get a handle on it and there is a freedom there. I don't always have an opportunity to record a real drummer, there are infinite reasons for this. Getting better at drum plugins has made working on my projects less frustrating in the end. 

 

[RABid]

I have Addictive Drums with a lot of the expansions and they are fine for me. The V-Drum and Zendrum community seems to prefer Superior Drummer 3. It cost a lot more but I hear the sounds are recorded in 11.1 so you should be able to pick the mic placement you want.

[Mighty Motif Max]

Addictive Drums 2 is very good. Superior Drummer has mic placement options and such that you don’t get with AD2, but it’s more expensive and I haven’t seen the need so far.

[synthdogg]

2 hours ago, johnchop said:

Demo EZDrummer for sounds. Low fuss, good sounds, lots of libraries. If you're not tweaking drums to the nth degree, you can save money over Superior Drummer and go ham on kits and MIDI libraries.

 

 

 

 

I second this recommendation. I've used Superior Drummer for years (SD3 is a GREAT upgrade), and I love it and the flexibility of its libraries and midi grooves/fills....but man, it feels like overkill sometimes if I'm not working on an album and hyper-engineering the drum sound. I would definitely check out EZ drummer, and see which of the add on libraries hit exactly the sounds you are looking for.

[bill5]

Before you shell out anything, try freebies like MT Power Drum Kit and Steven Slate Lite. May not fill all of your needs, but IMO sound good and worst case all you lose is a little of your time. 

 

 

[KuruPrionz]

Well, this might be a bit OT and it isn't software but I have the Korg Wavedrum Global and it is unlike any other electronic drum on the market.

No MIDI out for one thing, just audio in stereo. A real drum head, there is a microphone (it will feedback if turned up too loud) and sensors on the head. 

It can display similar sensitivity to an actual drum, you will hear a big difference depending on where you strike, what you strike with and you can shift pitch by adjust the pressure on the head with your hand. It feels and plays just like a real drum, until it doesn't. Some patches will lower the pitch instead of raising it when you press the head, some patches will cause the pitch of the second sound coming from the rim to shift when you press the head. 

 

This is like playing a real drum that nobody in the next room will hear if you have headphones on. You can play it with your hands or with sticks, mallets, brushes. 

I turned it well up and I could hear the sound of my fingernails scratching across the head. They aren't cheap and may seem limited but nothing is more playable as an expressive electronic percussion device. It is programmable and comes with 200 presets, most of them excellent and usable. If any reasonably nearby music store has one it's well worth dropping by and giving it a spin. I don't think I'll ever sell mine. 

[Mark Schmieder]

SD3 is my go-to, especially the Decades library, but it's expensive.

 

Sennheiser's Drum Mic'A is free and excellent, easy to use.

 

Abbey Road Drums and Studio Drummer from NI are good options that you own.

 

I sold most of my others as I prefer a uniform workflow and Decades has it all.

 

Soniccouture's Moon Kit and Sun Kit are excellent, grainy in a good way, realistic.

 

Based on who you listed though,  don't think it's likely to be a good choice for you.

[KuruPrionz]

19 minutes ago, Mark Schmieder said:

SD3 is my go-to, especially the Decades library, but it's expensive.

 

Sennheiser's Drum Mic'A is free and excellent, easy to use.

 

Abbey Road Drums and Studio Drummer from NI are good options that you own.

 

I sold most of my others as I prefer a uniform workflow and Decades has it all.

 

Soniccouture's Moon Kit and Sun Kit are excellent, grainy in a good way, realistic.

 

Based on who you listed though,  don't think it's likely to be a good choice for you.

Thanks Mark for the reference to the Sennheiser drum goodie!

[Justin Havu]

I bought Steven Slate Drums 5 a couple of years ago when it was on sale.  It sounds great, has plenty of grooves, but it seems to be more dialed in for rock or metal than anything else.  I've had to pick and choose various parts to get a vintage, dry-sounding kit, but once it's tweaked a bit, the sound is very pleasing.

[Tusker]

10 hours ago, mcgoo said:

Secondly, the grooves available for them are outstanding (as in, they feel real) and you can find specialized grooves for genres like fusion that aren't mainstream.

 

Are you speaking of the base SD3 library or are the specialized grooves located in specific expansions? Thanks.

[Tusker]

Thank you all!! These are great options and I am grateful. It's time to download some demos and freebies and to watch some videos. You've convinced me that I am looking for an instrument rather than a sound library.

 

These answers may come from the research, but if you should happen know ... are there shortcuts to customizing grooves and organizing a song with these instruments? For example:

 

- Will the instrument generate parts, based on the structure of the song? (verse, chorus)

- Will the instrument generate parts that match a particular track (for example, will the hi-hats adjust to a particular 16th note guitar riff)

- Will the instrument generate parts around a midi drum pattern (One could create seed patterns and then develop them more musically in these instruments?)

 

Finally, I am hoping someone will have an opinion on this: Will some of these instruments handle the fusion/prog genre (polyrhythms, swing, polymetric modulation, unconventional time signatures) better than others?

[Tusker]

6 hours ago, justin_havu said:

I bought Steven Slate Drums 5 a couple of years ago when it was on sale.  It sounds great, has plenty of grooves, but it seems to be more dialed in for rock or metal than anything else.  I've had to pick and choose various parts to get a vintage, dry-sounding kit, but once it's tweaked a bit, the sound is very pleasing.

 

I totally dig what you are doing with it Justin. (following you on Soundcloud) The sound speaks to me. 👍

[Tusker]

7 hours ago, KuruPrionz said:

Well, this might be a bit OT and it isn't software but I have the Korg Wavedrum Global and it is unlike any other electronic drum on the market.

No MIDI out for one thing, just audio in stereo. A real drum head, there is a microphone (it will feedback if turned up too loud) and sensors on the head. 

It can display similar sensitivity to an actual drum, you will hear a big difference depending on where you strike, what you strike with and you can shift pitch by adjust the pressure on the head with your hand. It feels and plays just like a real drum, until it doesn't. Some patches will lower the pitch instead of raising it when you press the head, some patches will cause the pitch of the second sound coming from the rim to shift when you press the head. 

 

I remember when the concept first came out. I played in a store and was floored. The sensitivity was unreal. It was the beginning of physical modeling. Lovely instrument. Not for me. No skills. 

[Tusker]

 

 

11 hours ago, johnchop said:

Do you have Komplete?

 

I don't actually. I have Reaktor and Kontakt and some instruments on those platforms. I've been on the complete Izotope bandwagon so NI resistance is becoming a bit futile. 🤦‍♂️

[Stefan011]

7 hours ago, Mark Schmieder said:

SD3 is my go-to, especially the Decades library, but it's expensive.

 

Sennheiser's Drum Mic'A is free and excellent, easy to use.

 

Abbey Road Drums and Studio Drummer from NI are good options that you own.

 

I sold most of my others as I prefer a uniform workflow and Decades has it all.

 

Soniccouture's Moon Kit and Sun Kit are excellent, grainy in a good way, realistic.

 

Based on who you listed though,  don't think it's likely to be a good choice for you.

Soniccouture are allways great. I own Electro accoustic and both Moon Kit and Sun Kit are on my list for the future purchase.

 

Abbey Road are mostly not spectacular but pretty nice, the rhytms and breaks are handy, but kinda mixed bag. I use Vintage for swing and lo-fi and 70s for fusion (as in this video). 

 

 

[mcgoo]

1 hour ago, Tusker said:

 

Are you speaking of the base SD3 library or are the specialized grooves located in specific expansions? Thanks.

 

The base library is more mainstream. There are numerous MIDI packs, usually $29.00 each that have multiple patterns organized in sections (intro, verse, pre-chorus, chorus, fills). I just took a peak and found 4 fusion libraries available and another one called "fills odd meters". It's a very simple process to add any new library to the instrument and then any of those patterns can be used for any of the kits you have (or add in the future). Customizing any pattern is as easy as getting in the midi track and inserting / deleting / moving / changing a midi note. It's also important to understand that these patterns have been played by top notch drummers, not programmed. They are not quantized, so they have a very human feel about them.

 

I've seen multiple comments about it being expensive. List price is $399.00. For that, you get the instrument, 230 GB worth of drum samples, 7 kits and I don't know how many, but likely hundreds of midi drum patterns. In this case, I believe you get quite a bit more than you pay for.

[JamPro]

EZ Drummer (basic version) is around $100, has two complete kits, sounds good, is easy to use, and you can buy expansion packs to get more drums.  No muss, no fuss drums - easy peazy.

 

I'm going to also suggest Jamstix.  Jamstix is a sample library of around 10 different kits, and also includes a "brain" that composes a drum performance in real time (if you want).  You first choose a kit (the samples), a playing style (rock, country, jazz, etc), and then a model drummer (Pert, Watts, Chambers, Copeland, etc).  You tell Jamstix that the verse is 16 bars, and the chorus is 8 bars and the chorus should be a little louder than the verse.  And then press play.  Jamstix composes the drum performance on the fly: creating a main groove, adding occasional accents to the groove, and putting in fills where you specify.  If you ask it to loop over a part, the drum performance will vary with each repetition.  The drumming that results is wonderfully; more varied and interesting than a midi loop.  It's like having a drummer that can actually follow directions, and without the drool.  You can use the brain to drive other drum sample players (like EZ Drummer) if you have special drum sounds you like. The downside is you have to work with it and experiment to get the drum performance you want - so not so good if you need immediate results.  The basic version costs around $100.

[Stokely]

My friend and I both explored the very same thing recently.

I like to use Drummer's "AI" for my drums, he wanted something with loops as he's very quick at cutting these up to make tracks.   Either way, neither of us really like Drummer's sounds, but I'll say this:   some are better than others.   Before giving up on them, make sure you've tried the "producer kits" and I choose the one that is unmixed (name escapes me).  That means that the channel strip isn't packed with a ton of stuff that you might not like (then again, you might!).   I go in and replace each drum/cymbal as I see fit.   The Producer kits will create a Track Stack where each drum is on a different channel, and there are usually a couple different "room" levels, fyi (you might already know this.)

Out of all the kick drums in Drummer, I really only liked the two "Studio" ones.   There were only a couple snares I liked as well.

As far as other libraries, we both picked up 8dio's "Blackbird" kick on sale for 5 dollars (with a refer a friend discount applied).  It *might* be worth that much, I was underwhelmed.  The Kontakt interface and design are bad, the sounds I didn't care for (the demos were much better than what I can get.) 

He ended up getting NI Studio Drummer, and I already had that as part of Komplete.  I'm not sure I would have paid for it standalone.  It does sound good though, I think better than what I was able to tweak out of Drummer kits.

I probably would have ended up getting XLN Addictive Drums 2 on a recent sale, as I really like that company from past purchases.  However, I held off because I'm intending to upgrade Komplete to Ultimate this summer if they do their usual sale.  That will net me the Abbey Road and Modern Drummer Kontakt libraries so I want to evaluate those first.

Others I thought about that might not be on the beaten path:  Damage 2 and the new Tokyo Scoring Drums.  These have a ton of cinematic percussion but also regular drums.

I *almost* got BFD3 when it was 50 bucks but even at that huge discount it sounded like the potential for headaches and crashes (on Mac) was high, so I passed.

Edit: I almost forgot I picked up Moonkits when Soniccouture did an awesome bundle sale last year.  I *really* wanted Sun Drums but it was excluded. I did get ElectroAcoustic--I am covered 20 times over for electronic stuff I must say with Battery and others!   Take a listen to Sun Drums, it's pretty different from anything else I've heard out there.  And appreciate the truly astounding finger-drumming demo for it!

[Tusker]

22 hours ago, Stokely said:

My friend and I both explored the very same thing recently.

I like to use Drummer's "AI" for my drums, he wanted something with loops as he's very quick at cutting these up to make tracks.   Either way, neither of us really like Drummer's sounds, but I'll say this:   some are better than others.   Before giving up on them, make sure you've tried the "producer kits" and I choose the one that is unmixed (name escapes me).  That means that the channel strip isn't packed with a ton of stuff that you might not like (then again, you might!).   I go in and replace each drum/cymbal as I see fit.   The Producer kits will create a Track Stack where each drum is on a different channel, and there are usually a couple different "room" levels, fyi (you might already know this.)

 

Yes, I think we are absolutely on the same journey. The Producer Kits are good in a basic pop mix, but I am still need softer drums with more of a sense of space and dynamics for atmospheric projects. We must have similar tastes because I love the sound of Sun Drums. I can't hear any compression artifacts. How fantastic. Thanks! Apparently the Legacy drums in Superior Drummer are similarly convincing  and dynamic in their soft tone.

 

Over time one may may need multiple options for different projects. The Logic Drummer is more than a pattern set. It's a smart and responsive AI and great for creating artistic ideas. However, professionally recorded drum loops have their own compelling feel, with which no AI can compete.

[Tusker]

22 hours ago, Stokely said:

Before giving up on them, make sure you've tried the "producer kits" and I choose the one that is unmixed (name escapes me). 

 

Unmixed+ has become my new favorite Drummer kit. Thanks for the tip! Still on the hunt though ... it never ends. 😅

[bill5]

On 1/13/2023 at 5:10 AM, Tusker said:

Thank you all!! These are great options and I am grateful. It's time to download some demos and freebies and to watch some videos. You've convinced me that I am looking for an instrument rather than a sound library.

 

These answers may come from the research, but if you should happen know ... are there shortcuts to customizing grooves and organizing a song with these instruments? For example:

 

- Will the instrument generate parts, based on the structure of the song? (verse, chorus)

- Will the instrument generate parts that match a particular track (for example, will the hi-hats adjust to a particular 16th note guitar riff)

- Will the instrument generate parts around a midi drum pattern (One could create seed patterns and then develop them more musically in these instruments?)

If I understand what you're saying, not that I'm aware of. Of course you could simply use loops, tons of which are available in numerous ways, including free.