Dawless a thing?

[KuruPrionz]

4 minutes ago, Stokely said:

I've mentioned some of the things I like about being in the box, but one drawback--if you lack discipline!--is the endless tweaking that can commence after you record your part.  This can still happen with hardware if you midi everything up and sequence, but some of you mention recording your parts as audio (as I used to do as well) and that has the real benefit of being "done" with a part, you commit to a sound and move on to the next.  This is true of guitarists as well who can mic up their amp, or record direct and spend hours trying out cab IRs (*raises hand*)  Having the midi and the sounds in the computer makes for a strong temptation to continually "improve" things.

It can indeed, been there and done that. I'm glad I spent some time on tones, eventually you find your happy place and can just record, at least I have. 

I do mostly record audio, tweaked going in. When mix time comes the IK Stealth Limiter is a go-to plugin and simple to set up (thanks Craig A!), I do find either of two Eventide plugins very useful - Split EQ or Physion 2. Most of the time reverb is just a dab of IK Hall Reverb. We don't need much to sound good, the rabbit hole is as much an obstacle as a benefit. 

 

I think it was worth the time for me to putz about and learn what things work. I'm glad I did it. And it can happen with audio as well, it took some time learning how to dial my guitar amp, which mic to use and where to put it. I am happy with how things are going now. Life is much easier. 

[o0Ampy0o]

On 11/4/2022 at 11:10 AM, ProfD said:

A DAW is just another composition/recording tool.  No different from an electronic KB full of sounds. 

 

Regardless of the tools and methodology, it's up to talented musician(s), composers and songwriters to make some happening music with it.

 

Listen to any great piece of music written and/or recorded and look/listen for the common denominator.  

 

Hint...it has little or nothing to do with the technology.😎

That logic is a common counterpoint that does not hold up.

 

A car, bicycle, truck, train, airplane, jet, bus, rocket, skateboard  = Modes of transportation? Yes. Tools? Yes. “Just another tool” for transportation? No. 

Is it up to the driver, pilot, skater? to surpass the tool’s limitations? No. The various modes of transportation are designed with specific uses in their objectives and it has everything to do with technology in mind, at hand and put into practice in the context of practical application. 
 

Some tools are better designed and more useful at their objective than others. People continue to discover how all tools are not equal and doing a task with the wrong tool is likely to be more difficult if it doesn’t also produce less favorable results. The right tool for the job is not always available and may have yet to be invented. Again but slightly different, some tools are better designed and more useful than others.

 

[David Emm]

The whole thread amuses me. Claiming to be DAWless is like Queen stating "No synthesizers were used." I always idly wonder who people are trying to impress/offend with that stuff. A mix of circumstance and pizzazz will naturally draw you to the flute, several ARPs or your flute running through several ARPs. The angle that feels like the best fit for you will eventually become clear, usually after a few instructive wrong turns into a wall.

 

I'd bet you an entire JX-08 that most of us have a DAW and a fistful of hardware.  

[Baggypants]

On 11/4/2022 at 9:59 AM, CyberGene said:

And I just can't see what's so wrong with using a DAW. How come a DAW is not our friend but is seen as an enemy?

 

DAW-less is a school of thought by some people who were dissatisfied with their compositional workflow, that has subsequently become a cargo cult.

[ProfD]

4 hours ago, o0Ampy0o said:

That logic is a common counterpoint that does not hold up.
 

Some tools are better designed and more useful at their objective than others.

 

People continue to discover how all tools are not equal and doing a task with the wrong tool is likely to be more difficult if it doesn’t also produce less favorable results. 

 

The right tool for the job is not always available and may have yet to be invented.

 

Again but slightly different, some tools are better designed and more useful than others.

The Ensoniq ASR-10 was just another KB tool and limited by today's standards. That didn't stop music producers from making hit records with it.

 

Same goes for the Akai MPC drum machine/sequencer/sampler. In fact, the machine was not invented for how it was ultimately utilized to make hit records. It was the people behind it. 

 

Many hit records were made using 8 or fewer tracks of analog tape. There was no magic in the machine. It was the people behind it. 

 

Any tool (DAW or KB) in the right hands can get the job done when it comes to making music.

 

These young folks are making millions of dollars producing music with a DAW called FL Studio aka Fruity Loops.🤣😎

[o0Ampy0o]

31 minutes ago, ProfD said:

The Ensoniq ASR-10 was just another KB tool and limited by today's standards. That didn't stop music producers from making hit records with it.

 

Same goes for the Akai MPC drum machine/sequencer/sampler. In fact, the machine was not invented for how it was ultimately utilized to make hit records. It was the people behind it. 

 

Many hit records were made using 8 or fewer tracks of analog tape. There was no magic in the machine. It was the people behind it. 

 

Any tool (DAW or KB) in the right hands can get the job done when it comes to making music.

 

These young folks are making millions of dollars producing music with a DAW called FL Studio aka Fruity Loops.🤣😎

That is a strawman argument.
 

The point isn’t that you can’t do something. The objective isn’t “do something with a limited tool.” For good reason the limited list you mentioned is not or no longer the norm in pro and private recording studios. 
 

edit: restated, the objective may be do something with a limited tool but it is not do anything with a limited tool that can be done with non-limited tools available. If you want to get to a destination across the country and choose a horse instead of car it is not impossible to get to your destination but chances are you will have to divert a lot of time and energy away from the destination (in this case the product you intend to create) having chosen that tool.

[ProfD]

13 minutes ago, o0Ampy0o said:

That is a strawman argument.
 

edit: restated, the objective may be do something with a limited tool but it is not do anything with a limited tool that can be done with non-limited tools available. 

1st, there is no argument here. Just stating facts.

 

My point as it relates to this thread is DAW or DAW-less or any other gear...it is the person using the tools who can extract gold with it. 😎

[KuruPrionz]

5 hours ago, David Emm said:

The whole thread amuses me. Claiming to be DAWless is like Queen stating "No synthesizers were used." I always idly wonder who people are trying to impress/offend with that stuff. A mix of circumstance and pizzazz will naturally draw you to the flute, several ARPs or your flute running through several ARPs. The angle that feels like the best fit for you will eventually become clear, usually after a few instructive wrong turns into a wall.

 

I'd bet you an entire JX-08 that most of us have a DAW and a fistful of hardware.  

Guilty as charged. I will keep my DAW and my stuffs. I can't imagine trying to record without an electric bass guitar, just for one. 

 

It sounds to me like DAW-less is the "current badge of honor" or something, even though it's been going on for a LONG time. 

I used to record on a Tascam 4 track cassette because that's what I had. I used an SM58 because that's what I had. 

So what? Big whoop? I dunno, the whole "what do other people use" thing is silly. "They used this so I want it too." 

 

Roger McGuinn and Tom Petty both chose a Rickenbacker 12 string because George Harrison of the Beatles played one that Rickenbacker gave him (he sent it back because he wanted the low strings in the pairs on top instead of the high strings - Rickenbacker flipped them for him). Were Roger and Tom successful because they used the same guitar as George?

A friend of mine has one, how come he is not famous? 

What about the "Elvis mic"? I have a friend who uses one, it hides her pretty face and she does not sound like Elvis. What then?

 

At the same time, I'm totally fine with people using what they like to use. I've got plenty to worry about but that's not it. 

If they are happy, I'm happy for them. 

 

My conclusion is that whether DAWless or DAWsome are "things" doesn't matter, to me. 

[o0Ampy0o]

1 hour ago, ProfD said:

1st, there is no argument here. Just stating facts.

 

My point as it relates to this thread is DAW or DAW-less or any other gear...it is the person using the tools who can extract gold with it. 😎

 

Love him or hate him guys like Rick Beato can articulate in detail with the expertise of a professional in the business with years of experience why and how something works well from their perspective. He knows the techniques, the vocabulary, the concepts first hand as one who communicated and worked with people involved in as well as himself being part of making things at the highest level of the industry. Another guy might be speechless and believe something was a god being channeled through a human in the recording studio. Both could be correct. But Rick knows what is possible and what isn’t supernatural. Rick understands how important the equipment is. He knows all the practical information that is essential to doing what has been done so well. The other guy and many between Rick and that other guy don’t. I am closer to that other guy than to Beato but I have an ability to understand Rick’s presentations. Some equipment is a hinderance and citing the exceptional results some have had using limited equipment is not making a strong case for choosing limited. However, if making the most with limited tools is the goal then have at it. Use a Sears reel to reel recorder. As you suggest, gold can be extracted from any gear. If you can’t extract it from that unless you just want to play around you are wasting your time and money on anything else.

[o0Ampy0o]

6 hours ago, David Emm said:

 

I'd bet you an entire JX-08 that most of us have a DAW and a fistful of hardware.  

…I’ll take the JX-08 for never letting go of my hardware after discovering it. 

[DovJ]

This argument is a complete waste of time.

 

I choose the tools that work for me - a blend of hardware and software.

 

Everyone should make their own choices, and get down to making music. What’s the point of arguing over the merits of a particular approach? If it works for you, go with it!

[DeltaJockey]

I love these rambling wastes of time 😄......What was the question again?🤭

[SteveCoscia]

10 minutes ago, DovJ said:

I choose the tools that work for me - a blend of hardware and software.

 

Amen....

[CyberGene]

.

[DeltaJockey]

22 minutes ago, DovJ said:

This argument is a complete waste of time.

 

I choose the tools that work for me - a blend of hardware and software.

 

Everyone should make their own choices, and get down to making music. What’s the point of arguing over the merits of a particular approach? If it works for you, go with it!

Seriously though, the resultant conversation and opinions are entirely predictable. It restores faith in humanity The take home is....everyone does it differently, defends their right to, and as a result these threads put the cat among the pigeons, Ha!

[Baggypants]

2 hours ago, DeltaJockey said:

I love these rambling wastes of time 😄......What was the question again?🤭

I think it was "how can I title my youtube videos so I get lots of clicks"

[o0Ampy0o]

10 hours ago, DovJ said:

This argument is a complete waste of time..............What’s the point of arguing over the merits of a particular approach?

 

 

By posting this point of view are you not participating so you can establish that you are above participating in the thread?  💯  That's a good one.

 

The OP opened the thread to hear points of view. If you believe other people sharing and questioning perspectives on a particular subject is a waste of time is it not hypocritical and a waste of your time reading and posting in the thread yourself?