Franknputer Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 Hey man - you know anything about old P.A. Starck pianos? We have one - an upright grand, it's called, from 1916-1920 era - and I'm trying to see if it's a good quality instrument, i.e. would it be worth it to get it refurbed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wewus432 Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 In a word, NO. That's an old as shit piano, and a name I've probably never heard of, but I've seen so many, it's hard to remember. Ok, now I remember, I have seen a few, it's a medium quality piano, probably was a great piano in it's day, but..... Bottom line is, IT'S 80 YEARS OLD, it's done. DITCH IT! Age is not something that improves a piano like it does a guitar soundboard, or a violin. A piano is a lot more of a complicated machine than those instruments, and there's too many things there that fall apart with age. The soundboard loses it's crown, the wooden action parts loosen and eventually break, the hammers become grooved and unrepairable, etc., etc,. Ditch it, Chris, and don't ever buy a piano that old, it's a losing proposition, and take that info from me as a guy with 20 years experience in the piano business, not from TheWewus, who is kind of an idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeronyne Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 Hey We, So is a vintage Steinway or other grand a losing proposition, also? I'd like to get one while I still live in a house that's big enough, but I don't think I'll be able to afford one of these new Steinways: http://steinway.com/steinway/limited_edition/kl-piano.jpg http://steinway.com/steinway/artcase_collection/ellipse.jpg http://steinway.com/steinway/artcase_collection/harmony/zoom/c.jpg "For instance" is not proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wewus432 Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 Old is not good, in regard to pianos. That's some urban myth which people got from the fact that vintage guitars and violins, and some other instruments do increase in value with age. DON'T BUY AN OLD PIANO, unless it's something really special, for instance, I love old Mason and Hamlin pianos and this IS one of the exceptions to the rule, but don't spend thousands of dollars without consulting a professional, like me. I do know pianos. I've seen THOUSANDS, and it's not that I'm any smarter than you are, I just know what I'm talking about because of my experience, day in, and day out, looking at and working on pianos, and I don't have any doubt about what I'm talking about. Don't buy an old piano. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franknputer Posted July 29, 2004 Author Share Posted July 29, 2004 I didn't buy it - it's my wife's family piano. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curve Dominant Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 posted by Wewus: I love old Mason and Hamlin pianos and this IS one of the exceptions to the ruleMy ex had a 1928 Mason & Hamlin baby grand, and it sounded like butter. Warm and lush and sweet. I don't miss my ex, but I DO miss that piano. On the other hand, the Steinways at my hotel, which were bought just 14 years ago, are already sounding kinda beat up in comparison. Eric Vincent (ASCAP) www.curvedominant.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJDM Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 I had a circa 1920 Cable upright for a time. I miss having a piano in the house. DJDM.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Horne Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 Unless you must really have that piano for emotional reasons, don't buy it. A piano should be restrung every 30 years or so. You're going to have to pay someone to restring the piano and probably do a lot of work on the action as well. Was that your plan? No guitarists were harmed during the making of this message. In general, harmonic complexity is inversely proportional to the ratio between chording and non-chording instruments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bbach1 Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 Originally posted by TheWewus: Old in not good, in regard to pianos. That's some urban myth which people got from the fact that vintage guitars and violins, and some other instruments do increase in value with age. DON'T BUY AN OLD PIANO, unless it's something really special, for instance, I love old Mason and Hamlin pianos and this IS one of the exceptions to the rule, but don't spend thousands of dollars without consulting a professional, like me. I do know pianos. I've seen THOUSANDS, and it's not that I'm any smarter than you are, I just know what I'm talking about because of my experience, day in, and day out, looking at and working on pianos, and I don't have any doubt about what I'm talking about. Don't buy an old piano.But Wewus, tell us how you really feel about old pianos. bbach Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wewus432 Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 Originally posted by Curve Dominant: posted by Wewus: I love old Mason and Hamlin pianos and this IS one of the exceptions to the ruleMy ex had a 1928 Mason & Hamlin baby grand, and it sounded like butter. Warm and lush and sweet. I don't miss my ex, but I DO miss that piano. On the other hand, the Steinways at my hotel, which were bought just 14 years ago, are already sounding kinda beat up in comparison.Some of those old Mason and Hamlin pianos are amazing. The level of craftsmanship on those pianos is something you really don't see much, anymore. Some one is using that name again on their pianos, but they're just not the same. If you look under an old Mason and Hamlin piano, hanging just beneath the soundboard is a device called The Tension Resonator. This is a cylindrical piece of metal, with turnbuckles extending from it out to the edge of the case and soundboard, and it locks everything together, and maintains the crown on the soundboard. It's a very simple device, that works, and I think it's one of the reasons those pianos sound so good after so many years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wewus432 Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 Originally posted by DJDM: I had a circa 1920 Cable upright for a time. I miss having a piano in the house.That's a good make. I've had a few over the years, and worked on a lot of them, and they do hold up better than your average piano. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wewus432 Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 Originally posted by Dave Horne: Unless you must really have that piano for emotional reasons, don't buy it. A piano should be restrung every 30 years or so. You're going to have to pay someone to restring the piano and probably do a lot of work on the action as well. Was that your plan?A real piano is a great thing. You can spend thousands of dollars trying to duplicate the touch of a real piano action, and duplicate the sound of a real piano, but there is no substitute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wewus432 Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 Originally posted by cwfno: Originally posted by TheWewus: Old in not good, in regard to pianos. That's some urban myth which people got from the fact that vintage guitars and violins, and some other instruments do increase in value with age. DON'T BUY AN OLD PIANO, unless it's something really special, for instance, I love old Mason and Hamlin pianos and this IS one of the exceptions to the rule, but don't spend thousands of dollars without consulting a professional, like me. I do know pianos. I've seen THOUSANDS, and it's not that I'm any smarter than you are, I just know what I'm talking about because of my experience, day in, and day out, looking at and working on pianos, and I don't have any doubt about what I'm talking about. Don't buy an old piano.But Wewus, tell us how you really feel about old pianos. I'd like to start a company whose sole purpose was to go around and collect old uprights and haul them to the dump, if I could somehow get paid for it. There are literally millions of those pianos just sitting around in homes all over the world......taking up space and falling apart. I did an appraisal on an old upright last week, and the customer was under the impression that what she had was an "antique" and should be in a museum. Anytime I hear someone mention antique and piano in the same sentence, I know they don't know what they're talking about. There is no class of "antique" pianos, unless it's something very unique like one of the first Steinways made. Most old pianos are just old. You know what I hate also? Rebuilt pianos. I don't think I've ever seen a rebuilt piano that I would consider was rebuilt correctly. There's always some part of it that the rebuilder skipped over. Either it's not regulated correctly, the hammers are the wrong weight, the key bushings are loose, etc., etc. Once you've spent all that time and money on a piano, you'd be much better off putting that money into a new, or newer piano. Average service life of a piano, generally speaking is 50 years, after that it's all down hill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Horne Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 A real piano is a great thing. A real piano that is in excellent condition and is in tune is a great thing. I play a lot of jobs where the 'real' piano needs to be tuned, a pedal needs adjusting or the action needs work. I'll take a first rate electronic piano most of time - no surprises. No guitarists were harmed during the making of this message. In general, harmonic complexity is inversely proportional to the ratio between chording and non-chording instruments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedly Nightshade Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 I got a 1928 upright that will smoke any new Baldwin under the sun. It's a total one off, as far as I can tell- I've played so many pianos and never found another one as good for old-time American music, old or new. Whatever you do kids, don't buy a Baldwin! A WOP BOP A LU BOP, A LOP BAM BOOM! "There is nothing I regret so much as my good behavior. What demon possessed me that I behaved so well?" -Henry David Thoreau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wewus432 Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 Why do you say that? Baldwin has made, and still makes some of the best pianos in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Fuzz Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 Actually... old pianos that are unplayable are still worth parting out for the woods (case and soundboard) and the ivory, I know of guitarbuilders that buy up old uprights just for that purpose. drfuzz "I'm just here to regulate the funkiness" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle ggurl Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 Originally posted by Ted Nightshade: I got a 1928 upright that will smoke any new Baldwin under the sun. It's a total one off, as far as I can tell- I've played so many pianos and never found another one as good for old-time American music, old or new. Whatever you do kids, don't buy a Baldwin!I've got a Baldwin Hamilton (conservatory upright) that smokes any other upright I've played, as well as a few baby grands. Original Latin Jazz CD Baby "I am not certain how original my contribution to music is as I am obviously an amateur." Patti Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wewus432 Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 Originally posted by drfuzz: Actually... old pianos that are unplayable are still worth parting out for the woods (case and soundboard) and the ivory, I know of guitarbuilders that buy up old uprights just for that purpose. drfuzzWhat do you do with the 400 lb. piece of cast iron left over? Boat anchor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeronyne Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 Originally posted by TheWewus: Originally posted by drfuzz: Actually... old pianos that are unplayable are still worth parting out for the woods (case and soundboard) and the ivory, I know of guitarbuilders that buy up old uprights just for that purpose. drfuzzWhat do you do with the 400 lb. piece of cast iron left over? Boat anchor? I have a boat anchor that would smoke any soundboard out there. Wewus, are there any Korean pianos that are worth a damn? "For instance" is not proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedly Nightshade Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 Maybe I've just been really unlucky, that none of the Baldwins I've ever seen or heard were worth a damn. YMMV I suppose. A WOP BOP A LU BOP, A LOP BAM BOOM! "There is nothing I regret so much as my good behavior. What demon possessed me that I behaved so well?" -Henry David Thoreau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantasticsound Posted July 30, 2004 Share Posted July 30, 2004 I've been sidetracked from having my 1918 Kurtzmann looked at by a pro. Despite your experience, Wewus, I want an onsite opinion, only because everything looks so clean inside. Outside, it's been scratched and beaten a bit, but inside the soundboard, lyre, and action seem p-r-e-t-t-y clean. (Though I'm quite sure it could use a once, twice, or thrice over. ) In the end, it sounds and plays well enough as is for this hack piano player. At $150 plus $40 to rent a truck to move it (and a few bucks for a wonderful impromptu dinner party for those who assisted in it's procurement ) It's easiest to find me on Facebook. Neil Bergman Soundclick fntstcsnd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wewus432 Posted July 30, 2004 Share Posted July 30, 2004 Neil I'd say about 90% of the old uprights out there are junk, so what you have might be in the 10% that is still a useable piano. 09 The Korean pianos are improving. Take a look at The Pramberger grands, those are the ones I was working on in California. Still wouldn't be my choice if I was paying that much money for an instrument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedly Nightshade Posted July 30, 2004 Share Posted July 30, 2004 If it can hold a tune well enough for your purposes, as is can be a good deal, for a few hundred bucks. But don't be throwing your money down a hole trying to improve some old broken down thing. A WOP BOP A LU BOP, A LOP BAM BOOM! "There is nothing I regret so much as my good behavior. What demon possessed me that I behaved so well?" -Henry David Thoreau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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