Markbass Ergo, Alto TX308, and Alto TS4 series

[MPN21]

In a recent thread on a Fender bass amp for key players, someone mentioned that for $15 more, a person can get a pair of the Alto TX308 for possibly better results and versatility. I thought that was a good idea. Some years ago I owned and had a fling with a Markbass CMD102 - 2x10 combo bass amp for my keys. Though the sound was cleaner and better than some well known 12 inch PA speakers local GC guys and I compared with, it wasn't practical for purpose. Anyway, I found out that Markbass makes 2.1 PA systems called Ergo. It looks interesting.  If this thing sounds as good as their CMD102p, I might want to get one.
https://www.markbass.it/audio-systems/ergo/

In going back to the TX308, I thought I could leave a pair at a gig where I play weekly. Then I found out about the new Alto TS4 series. 
https://www.altoprofessional.com/series/alto-speakers_pa The TS4 is much higher than the TX308 in price, but still cheaper than other similar speakers, I might wait and see.

[stoken6]

4 hours ago, MPN21 said:

Anyway, I found out that Markbass makes 2.1 PA systems called Ergo. It looks interesting.

They sell the components separately. I was wondering how a "Ergo Module" would perform as personal monitor - but it looks like it's passive, and would need an amp. 

 

Cheers, Mike

[Reezekeys]

From a quick look at the specs, it seems the TS4xx series are similar to their predecessor 3xx models with the addition of DSP eq and a bluetooth channel. I didn't see a description of the EQ other than mentioning a few presets plus the ability to roll your own via a phone app - which could be useful, but no mention of eq type, # of bands, etc. The other thing I notice (and it's something that probably most speaker manufacturers do) is they get a little hyperbolic with the output power spec. "2000 watts" is really 1000 watts RMS (specs say 650 for the woofer and 350 for the horn). Of course that's still plenty of juice but I guess marketing felt the need to put these up against the equivalent QSC, Yamaha and EV models. I'd be curious to see an independent A/B of these, comparing them to those brands' models, because they seem to be a lot cheaper - almost half the price, actually, if my cursory research is correct. I don't see any TX408s on sale in the USA right now, but Anderton's in the UK has them for the equivalent of $365 US (£315).

[ElmerJFudd]

1 hour ago, Reezekeys said:

From a quick look at the specs, it seems the TS4xx series are similar to their predecessor 3xx models with the addition of DSP eq and a bluetooth channel. I didn't see a description of the EQ other than mentioning a few presets plus the ability to roll your own via a phone app - which could be useful, but no mention of eq type, # of bands, etc. The other thing I notice (and it's something that probably most speaker manufacturers do) is they get a little hyperbolic with the output power spec. "2000 watts" is really 1000 watts RMS (specs say 650 for the woofer and 350 for the horn). Of course that's still plenty of juice but I guess marketing felt the need to put these up against the equivalent QSC, Yamaha and EV models. I'd be curious to see an independent A/B of these, comparing them to those brands' models, because they seem to be a lot cheaper - almost half the price, actually, if my cursory research is correct. I don't see any TX408s on sale in the USA right now, but Anderton's in the UK has them for the equivalent of $365 US (£315).

The DSP is controlled via app so you can walk around and adjust from audience perspective.  Which is a nice feature.  Enough to pony up for launch price of TS4.  Not sure.  

[Reezekeys]

1 hour ago, ElmerJFudd said:

The DSP is controlled via app so you can walk around and adjust from audience perspective.  Which is a nice feature.

 

I had that happening on my laptop rig for a while, using Touch OSC on my phone with Bidule's OSC implementation. It sounded good in theory but for the kinds of gigs I was doing, overkill; almost always I wound up with the same EQ I used on all my gigs, a slight scoop in the low-mids. I did get a kick out of the reaction to me waving my arm while triggering a sequence from across the room - so there was that for entertainment value!

 

I could be wrong but the EQ control via a phone or tablet app is not on the DSP-equipped QSCs (don't know about the other competition). Of course I haven't heard how these Altos actually sound, so there's that! EQ can't fix everything.

[ElmerJFudd]

2 hours ago, Reezekeys said:

 

I had that happening on my laptop rig for a while, using Touch OSC on my phone with Bidule's OSC implementation. It sounded good in theory but for the kinds of gigs I was doing, overkill; almost always I wound up with the same EQ I used on all my gigs, a slight scoop in the low-mids. I did get a kick out of the reaction to me waving my arm while triggering a sequence from across the room - so there was that for entertainment value!

 

I could be wrong but the EQ control via a phone or tablet app is not on the DSP-equipped QSCs (don't know about the other competition). Of course I haven't heard how these Altos actually sound, so there's that! EQ can't fix everything.

I was thinking this as well.
#1 how often do I get there in time.  
#2 I change patches, AP, EP, AP with strings, AP split with bass, etc.  

 

I’m better off with eq on the keyboard and tweaking as I go if I’m not happy.   But I can see using the app when I first bring it home to see what it’s sounding like further back.  
 

maybe more useful for DJ switching from speech to ballad to dance music, etc. 

[AnotherScott]

21 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

I’m better off with eq on the keyboard and tweaking as I go if I’m not happy. 
 

maybe more useful for DJ switching from speech to ballad to dance music, etc. 

These speakers are not primarily designed for keyboard players. They are primarily designed for PA. (Keyboard players have merely learned that PA speakers generally give better performance than keyboard amps.) From a PA perspective, if you have a dedicated soundperson (and your mixing board is out in the listening area), that person can EQ the speakers to the room when needed. If you don't, and you're controlling the FOH sound from the stage, it's helpful to be able to play some source material into the speakers, walk out into the room, and EQ them from the listening area, before returning to the stage to play.

[Reezekeys]

1 hour ago, ElmerJFudd said:

I’m better off with eq on the keyboard and tweaking as I go if I’m not happy.   But I can see using the app when I first bring it home to see what it’s sounding like further back.  

 

Yea, I see the speaker EQ adjustment as a way to match it to a particular room's sonic characteristics, not as a tool to eq individual patches on a keyboard.

 

The idea with my TouchOSC eq-adjuster was to first get things EQ'd perfectly for moi (from my position directly in front of my two speakers), then go out into the room and see how far from that setting I needed to go in order for the eq to sound balanced from the audience perspective. Then I would split the difference. Well, I'm selfish. I decided I wanted the best speaker eq setting for me only! There was usually very little difference between the setting that was cool to me and the setting I came up with for the room, so I never felt like the audience wasn't getting a decent sound from my K8s. It was an idea I'm glad I tried – in effect, an excuse to learn TouchOSC and how to use it to control my Bidule setup. I actually enjoy figuring that stuff out. What's wrong with me? 🙂 

[MPN21]

13 hours ago, Reezekeys said:

From a quick look at the specs, it seems the TS4xx series are similar to their predecessor 3xx models with the addition of DSP eq and a bluetooth channel. I didn't see a description of the EQ other than mentioning a few presets plus the ability to roll your own via a phone app - which could be useful, but no mention of eq type, # of bands, etc. The other thing I notice (and it's something that probably most speaker manufacturers do) is they get a little hyperbolic with the output power spec. "2000 watts" is really 1000 watts RMS (specs say 650 for the woofer and 350 for the horn). Of course that's still plenty of juice but I guess marketing felt the need to put these up against the equivalent QSC, Yamaha and EV models. I'd be curious to see an independent A/B of these, comparing them to those brands' models, because they seem to be a lot cheaper - almost half the price, actually, if my cursory research is correct. I don't see any TX408s on sale in the USA right now, but Anderton's in the UK has them for the equivalent of $365 US (£315).

The wireless connection feature of the TX408s is interesting.  Do you think it's just for Bluetooth connection, or you can plug everything into one speaker and it connects to the other speaker wireless?

 

[AnotherScott]

Bluetooth is too slow for real-time audio transmission.

[stoken6]

20 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

Bluetooth is too slow for real-time audio transmission.

Yes - for "synchronous" reproduction. If you're playing along to bluetooth tracks (and your instrument uses a wired connection), it's OK. 

 

EDIT - Scott, I see you were replying to MPN21's comment about wireless connection between a stereo pair. You are of course 100% correct that Bluetooth is too slow for that. 

 

Regards, Mike.

[MPN21]

On 9/11/2022 at 2:36 AM, stoken6 said:

They sell the components separately. I was wondering how a "Ergo Module" would perform as personal monitor - but it looks like it's passive, and would need an amp. 

 

Cheers, Mike

As with just about all 2.1 systems, the Ergo has bi-amps built into the sub for stereo.   We've seen key players tyring to use a bass amp.  Here for change, a bass player playing through what he calls a "hifi" system - the Mark Audio Ergo

 

 

[stoken6]

1 hour ago, MPN21 said:

As with just about all 2.1 systems, the Ergo has bi-amps built into the sub for stereo

Agree, but it's rare to see the (unpowered) tops sold separately. I guess Markbass's heritage as a "amp+cab" company allows them to sell an unpowered monitor alongside an amp module.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[AnotherScott]

9 hours ago, stoken6 said:

Agree, but it's rare to see the (unpowered) tops sold separately. I guess Markbass's heritage as a "amp+cab" company allows them to sell an unpowered monitor alongside an amp module.

The video says that the amp in the bass module can power 2 or 4 satellites. So I guess 2 come with it (maybe 8 ohms), and they sell tops separately so you can expand to 4 (in that case, dropping the impedance to the amp down to 4 ohms).

 

It looks like a cool system, though I'd have made the main XLR input jacks combo jacks so you could plug 1/4" jacks into them. There is a separate 1/4" jack, but only one, so that would give you a mono system (and it sounds like that input is configured for the level/impedance of a bass guitar). 

[Al Coda]

On 9/13/2022 at 9:23 AM, MPN21 said:

As with just about all 2.1 systems, the Ergo has bi-amps built into the sub for stereo.   We've seen key players tyring to use a bass amp.  Here for change, a bass player playing through what he calls a "hifi" system - the Mark Audio Ergo

 

This is interesting.

In the past I used small D&B column speakers sitting on pole-adapters fitting the USS tubing I use for stand construction.

I guess these Markbass 4x2" columns would fit too since mounting holes are typically 3/8".

 

I´d prefer the 2x10" sub over the 12" sub, but cannot find such combo in the shop.

The 2x10" seems to be available w/ 4x4" and 8x4" columns only.

 

☺️

 

A.C.