OT - What is Japan like?

[Dan South]

Jim B -

 

No problem. I was only there for a long week; I'm hardly an authority. But, I must have lucked out, because my hotels in Tokyo and Kyoto were quite spacious.

 

Three more random observations...

 

When I arrived, I was stuck immediately by the idea that Japan is the MOST DIFFERENT place that you can be and still be in the "FIRST WORLD".

 

I was amazed at how thoroughly westernized the fashions were. Other than a handful of older women and the waitress at the traditional restaurant, I saw no one in traditional Japanese garb.

 

Smoking. Big time. I've watched people SUCK on cigarettes as though they were trying to drink a think milkshake with a straw. One cig lasts about two minutes under these circumstances. I saw this routinely, and the people would chain four, six, ten or more this way. Unbelievable.

 

BTW, my hotels rooms were large, but they were always filled with the smell of left-over smoke.

[videoeditor1]

Dan,

 

Also add

"Akasaka"

 

One of the hippest clubs in in Akasaka...as is a Teac/Tascam office.

 

Roppongi is where the SERIOUS clubbing happens IIRC.

 

Co-incidentally, I got an offer to go over Jul 6-21, but I just couldn't do it, having spent 3.5 weeks in April, and slated for another 3 wks in Sept...

 

Everybody's observations have been "right", cuz there's no single template that describes anyplace.

 

Try as I might, I could not, and would not like to try and define NYC. Ya just gotta soak in as much as you can.

 

Peace all.

 

NYC Drew

[Dave Bryce]

Originally posted by Dan South:

Smoking. Big time. I've watched people SUCK on cigarettes as though they were trying to drink a think milkshake with a straw. One cig lasts about two minutes under these circumstances. I saw this routinely, and the people would chain four, six, ten or more this way. Unbelievable.

I was actually a few months into trying to become a non-smoker when I went to Japan last time (1998).

 

After a few days of being constantly surrounded by cigarette smoke and Mild Seven ads (and after a few cups of saki) I broke down and had one...I was smoking again at full strength almost immediately.

 

I had to go through the whole quitting thing again when I got back.

 

dB

[Rog]

Bump for selfish reasons.

 

My bottom is twitching because of the prospect of a new life on the other side of t'planet.

 

I'm gonna need all the real-world advice i can get.

 

I KNOW I'll be fine but in a worrier with stuff like this

[skipclone 1]

Rog

Not sure what your timetable is but start learning some Japanese, now. there`s been a lot of debate about why but, aside from trainn stations and other places with a lot of contact with foreigners, English is not too spoken compared with other places. It`s not for lack of trying-there`s a NOVA English school next to just about every train station. But your level of Japanese will go a long way in deciding how easy you have it here. I didn`t speak the language when I got here but I had studied Chinese so I could read the characters-saved my butt.

[deanmass]

My former student assistant and now friend is there now doing an intensive language study.

 

Read his thoughts here.

 

Also, his gal pal is with him, and her web site actually has more writing and a totally different view. Go here

 

I would go there in a heart beat if I could take my kids.

[skipclone 1]

by the way, I also came here through the JET programme, did the three years and stayed at the same job two years after that, but it`s getting a lot of competition from cheaper private companies.

[Odyssian]

Wow, this is an interesting thread. Thanks everyone for sharing your experiences. I had more than one chance to go to Japan while at my last job, but I turned the offers down. Couldn't stand the thought of the long plane ride/s (can you guess who might be claustrophobic?).

 

For anyone that has been in Japan for an extended period of time, here's a question. What are the crime statistics? I don't mean exact numbers, but more in a general sense. Are there areas that are considered "bad parts of town"? Do groups of youngsters ever get rowdy/rambunctious in public - like say on a weekend night? What types of crimes are most often committed?

[skipclone 1]

Originally posted by Odyssian:

Wow, this is an interesting thread. Thanks everyone for sharing your experiences. I had more than one chance to go to Japan while at my last job, but I turned the offers down. Couldn't stand the thought of the long plane ride/s (can you guess who might be claustrophobic?).

 

For anyone that has been in Japan for an extended period of time, here's a question. What are the crime statistics? I don't mean exact numbers, but more in a general sense. Are there areas that are considered "bad parts of town"? Do groups of youngsters ever get rowdy/rambunctious in public - like say on a weekend night? What types of crimes are most often committed?

1. Kabukicho, near Shinjuku. Tokyo mayor Shintaro Ishihara, the Rush Limbaugh of Japan, has exploited it as an excuse to stir up anti-foreigner hysteria. It`s mostly only bad late at night.

 

2. Roppongi, the foreigner ghetto. It`s actually a fun place to party but I don`t go there too often, too much B.S.

 

groups of younsters getting rowdy in public-anyplace that`s not Iran has that happening including here. It has gotten somewhat more obvious with the economy in the state it`s in-

young people are having a hard time with jobs and they`re looking at the work ethic and saying, `screw that noise, why should I put up with that if the businesses aren`t offering anything in return?` they have a point.

[Dave Horne]

I was in Tokyo for a week many, many years ago but I have a few memories that stand out.

 

I went for a walk around 8 or so in the morning (downtown Tokyo). There was no traffic (two lanes) and I was the only person on my side of the street and there were about 20 Japanese on the other side. The light was red for 'walkers' and they obediently waited until green to walk across. I almost walked against red (there was no traffic) but it didn't seem right since they were so polite.

 

The reason I went - the US was introducing American football to them (sponsored by Mitsubishi) and the West Point Band was sent for musical support. I believe two US colleges teams played. We were in a stadium that seated 40,000 and you could hear a pin drop during the game. They viewed the game as if they were at a classical concert.

 

A friend of mine (Bill Connelly, excellent classical trumpeter) taught them how to do a wave. He stood in front of the Band and had us do it and then he showed them how to do it. Amazing.

 

I remember also buying coffee on the street out of a vending machine and the coffee was served in a sealed metal can. I also saw beer in vending machines for sale - I had never seen that before.

 

I never never seen so many clean taxis in my life. I would watch the drivers clean their taxis with a large ostrich feather.

 

I also remember an incident - I bought a Yamaha electric piano to bring back (a PF 12 which was not marketed in the US). I had it sent to my hotel and when it was time for us to leave, the bellboy (a kid of 14 or so) refused to take a tip from me for wheeling the piano into our equipment truck. I had to force that tip on him - I was being the ugly American but with a good purpose. (I learned that lesson from a bartender many years ago - never refuse a tip. I tried to pass that lesson on.)

 

It took a little while to learn to walk on the left side of the sidewalk - they drive on the left side, they walk on the left side. I kept wondering why I was always fighting pedestrian traffic.

 

A few of us went out one evening to Pub Frank's - and we supplied free music to him for the entire evening. We drank free that evening and was even given a video. Very friendly people.

[Jimbroni]

Couldn't stand the thought of the long plane ride/s (can you guess who might be claustrophobic?).

Thats too bad man. You should try Adivant. Its the mildest valium. You should talk to your doc about it, cause there's big world out there to see.

 

Nice story Dave. yeah the cabs are nice aren't they.

[videoeditor1]

All true Dave.

 

No tips. People are (mostly) obidient at traffic lights.

 

Lots of pedestrian and bicycle traffic. Maybe higher bicycle traffic than France, lower than Bejing.

 

Transportation systems very efficient. Bullet (& some other trains) have marking painted on the platform where train pulls up for door. Line forms there. System is mostly precise.

 

If (big generalization here) some Japanese think you can't comprehend them, they'll say all kinds of crazy shit about you to each other. Hey, I do that too in Jamaican to my other Jamaicans.

 

No major hangups on sex (segue for Arell Spencer). "Christianity" not predominant as in Western cultures. Homosexuality not as taboo as here.

 

Don't mistake "escorts" for whores. Escorts are mostly just escorts.

 

Don't think just because (typically) you (me) have a height anvantage and you look downwards to the typical Japanese, that there's any less than you, or couldn't twist you physically or mentally into a pretzel.

 

Speaking louder if someone doesn't understand will not help. Speak s-l-o-w-e-r. Learn a few words. Learn the customs.

 

NYC Drew

[Rog]

Originally posted by skipclone 1:

Rog

Not sure what your timetable is but start learning some Japanese, now. there`s been a lot of debate about why but, aside from trainn stations and other places with a lot of contact with foreigners, English is not too spoken compared with other places. It`s not for lack of trying-there`s a NOVA English school next to just about every train station. But your level of Japanese will go a long way in deciding how easy you have it here. I didn`t speak the language when I got here but I had studied Chinese so I could read the characters-saved my butt.

I've ordered a basic Japanese course. It'll hopefully help me to show the people over there that I'm trying to fit in and it'll help my confidence. I have horrible memories of trying to learn French at high school.

 

Nova is the place I've applied to, a friend is over there working for them now and he's happy with them.

[Rog]

Originally posted by skipclone 1:

Rog

Not sure what your timetable is but start learning some Japanese, now. there`s been a lot of debate about why but, aside from trainn stations and other places with a lot of contact with foreigners, English is not too spoken compared with other places. It`s not for lack of trying-there`s a NOVA English school next to just about every train station. But your level of Japanese will go a long way in deciding how easy you have it here. I didn`t speak the language when I got here but I had studied Chinese so I could read the characters-saved my butt.

I've ordered a basic Japanese course. It'll hopefully help me to show the people over there that I'm trying to fit in and it'll help my confidence. I have horrible memories of trying to learn French at high school.

 

Nova is the place I've applied to, a friend is over there working for them now and he's happy with them.

[bottomend]

The better you understand the language the better you'll understand the culture. They are inextricably linked.

There have been some really good points/obsevations brought up here but make no mistakes. It's a harsh place to live if you're planning on being there awhile. They definitely treat visitors different from residents.

 

I lived there for three years and married into the culture and became fluent in the language. It seemed as though the more I understood about them as a people the less they wanted to include me. There is a Japanese word for this trait that I cant think of at the moment. Sorry ... it's the sort of thought that no one except a full blooded Japanese will ever TRULY understand the mind of a Japanese person. Even mixed Japanese people have told me they have been confronted with this kind of prejudice. There is definitely a superiority complex thing happening but you would have to be involved pretty deeply to perceive it. It's pretty subtle. But so are a lot of things about Japan.

 

I was fortunate to have traveled there before I lived there. I began my language studies prior to arriving (like a year before) and then kicked it into super high gear. It was a whole different place when I reached the point of being able to read the daily newspaper. (this is the stage when most people will tell you you're 'fluent').

 

The Japanese are great at presenting a nice gloss on the surface but underneath.... I think this has been talked about already so just go with it.

 

In the last few years the musicians have really come into their own as far as artistry is concerned. That being said, there really isn't the "exotic foreigner" appeal that once existed. So, if your looking for work, be prepared. There is stiff competition.

 

You're gonna have fun but be prepared to deal with massive population and being stuck behind a big dump truck on a tiny two lane road every time you try to take a ride out to the country to 'get away'....

[shikawkee]

Lived in Japan for two years. Great, lovely place. Most of the descriptions and suggestions here have been right on. The best thing you can do is try to learn the culture first before going. It's a big part of who they are and why they act. The language is very rooted in the culture.

[skipclone 1]

A point about the language, this is as much for those who know Japan as for Rog-the language is very much part of the culture, it is also the source of Japan`s hangup about `Japaneseness`. To be honest It`s hard not to get a bit high and mighty sometimes about knowing the `proper` use of kanji (Chinese characters), and the influence of katakana (phonetic romanizatiom), which is part of the problem with English education here. Many things identified as `Japanese` really aren`t but have been adapted as such, and people are unserstandably a bit identity-conscious.

Between China and America, it`s like being a midget wrestler sitting between two sumo guys.

[Rog]

Originally posted by skipclone 1:

A point about the language, this is as much for those who know Japan as for Rog-the language is very much part of the culture, it is also the source of Japan`s hangup about `Japaneseness`. To be honest It`s hard not to get a bit high and mighty sometimes about knowing the `proper` use of kanji (Chinese characters), and the influence of katakana (phonetic romanizatiom), which is part of the problem with English education here. Many things identified as `Japanese` really aren`t but have been adapted as such, and people are unserstandably a bit identity-conscious.

Between China and America, it`s like being a midget wrestler sitting between two sumo guys.

I think I know what you mean. I've just started a Japanese langauge course and a few words are obviously English words but with a Japanese pronunciation:

 

Biiru = Beer

Wain = wine

Koohii = coffee

 

I can't get my head around kanji yet. Is it better to learn to say phrases phonetically in the roman alphabet and move on to kanji when I'm more fluent? It seems like I'm trying to learn two languages!

 

My extensive research reveals that Japanese condoms are too small for Westeners ... I thought that was just a silly old myth?!?!?!

Anyway, back to my studies ... ichi, ni, san ....

[skipclone 1]

Originally posted by Rog:

Originally posted by skipclone 1:

A point about the language, this is as much for those who know Japan as for Rog-the language is very much part of the culture, it is also the source of Japan`s hangup about `Japaneseness`. To be honest It`s hard not to get a bit high and mighty sometimes about knowing the `proper` use of kanji (Chinese characters), and the influence of katakana (phonetic romanizatiom), which is part of the problem with English education here. Many things identified as `Japanese` really aren`t but have been adapted as such, and people are unserstandably a bit identity-conscious.

Between China and America, it`s like being a midget wrestler sitting between two sumo guys.

I think I know what you mean. I've just started a Japanese langauge course and a few words are obviously English words but with a Japanese pronunciation:

 

Biiru = Beer

Wain = wine

Koohii = coffee

 

I can't get my head around kanji yet. Is it better to learn to say phrases phonetically in the roman alphabet and move on to kanji when I'm more fluent? It seems like I'm trying to learn two languages!

 

Actually you`re trying tho learn three languages, one is kanji, one is hiragana and one is katakana.

The last two are phonetic but written differently.

not all katakana is from English-actually Dutch was the first foreign language influence here. The word for bread-pan-is from Dutch. Some katana words have me totally clueless.

Whether or not to invest a lot of time in kanji depends in part on how much you want to invest in Asia-it pays off in the long run but it`s like becoming a race car driver. Aside from racing you probably won`t have much reason to drive 200 miles an hour.

 

y extensive research reveals that Japanese condoms are too small for Westeners ... I thought that was just a silly old myth?!?!?!

Anyway, back to my studies ... ichi, ni, san ....

er...foreign guys are popular here.

[M Peasley]

I started this thread having finished reading Shogun (15th century Japan, English ship pilot has major culture clash, eventually goes semi-native, etc).

 

What's fascinating reading the great posts so far is how much of y'alls description of cultural dis-connects between Japan and Westerners is in Shogun, too. Even to the extent of rumours of the difference in male anatomy dimensions...not that I particularly care.

 

So now I'm wondering if James Clavell (the Shogun author) was backdating current Japanese culture into his fictional account of 500 years ago, OR, if Japanese culture is really so stable that not very much has changed in 500 years (which is a pretty freaky idea to your modern short-term memory addict Westerner like myself).

 

M Peasley

[bottomend]

skipclone, where do you live? how long have you been in Japan?

 

To answer the question about learning romaji before learning hiragana/katakana/kanji, I would recommend skipping the romaji phase and just going straight to the characters. Think about it for a minute, you're simply attaching a sound to a symbol. If you spend the time learning (recognizing) character in the first place you wont have to back track and learn stuff twice. Using the actual Japanese character to learn how to voice (sound out) the characters will also make your pronunciation much less "barbarian" too....

[bottomend]

skipclone, where do you live? how long have you been in Japan?

 

To answer the question about learning romaji before learning hiragana/katakana/kanji, I would recommend skipping the romaji phase and just going straight to the characters. Think about it for a minute, you're simply attaching a sound to a symbol. If you spend the time learning (recognizing) character in the first place you wont have to back track and learn stuff twice. Using the actual Japanese character to learn how to voice (sound out) the characters will also make your pronunciation much less "barbarian" too....

[gtrmac]

I came to japan first in 1990 to tour with a Japanese musician and returned the next year with my own band. I met my wife, who's from Osaka, at this time although she already lived in the U.S. when I met her, she was just home on a visit. I've lived in Japan for the last 5 years with my wife and my two sons. My youngest son was born here a year after we arrived. The boys attend and International School where thay study in English but they are both bi-lingual, much more so than I am which is often a problem. I would recommend a serious Japanese course if you plan to stay here for a long time. Luckily I have a job with a small electronics engineering firm where my ignorance of the language is tolerated.

 

I like living here a lot and plan to get my permanent visa this month. As a father it is an advantage to raise my sons here because the society is very safe for the most part, more than my home town New York City especially. We live in Osaka and in fact close to the center of town but we are lucky to have a good apartment in the building that my father in law owns. Although my situation is unique I would also recommend Japan to young single people as well. In fact, many of my friends are single or married couples with no children. Most work as English teachers like many other young foreigners and it seems that they all enjoy life here. It's expensive to live here but the lifestyle is quite good. Japanese women like foreign men and seem to prefer them to Japanese men which is what led to my current situation I guess. The reasons are a bit complicated but it is simplest explained by the fact that Japan is a patriarchal society where women were discrimainated against and it is now moving towards a more western model mostly because the women don't want to put up with it anymore. So a western guy with a modern attitude towards women can enjoy a lot of attention from the ladies. Aside from this the food is great they love music, good and not so good, beautiful scenery and historical sights and lots of fun ways to spend money, too many to mention.

The cultural differences that were mentioned can sometimes be frustrating but for the most part the courtesies that are expected are easily tolerated. I kind of prefer it to the more agressive behaviour of some westerners in fact. Dealing with the beaurocracy is probably the worst of it but the motor vehicle department on New York is no bed of roses either, here they smile while they waste your time and it seems like organised red tape instead of chaos at any rate.

My advice would be to resist any expectation to have thing done your way. Keep your eyes and mind open and try to act like a Japanese person, it will be to your benefit and will be appreciated by the Japanese. Some may find this difficult and this will hinder their success in a place like this. It is certainly true that Japanese culture has retained many of it's traditions and only the youngest generation are really different for the most part, maybe not for the better to my mind. this culture has been very successful in many ways and historically has been a powerful population in spite of it's size, except for the post-WW2 period of course but even this catastrophe led to an incredible recovery.

anyway, I hope you have a good trip and I'll write the rest of this book another time.

[Hanshananigan]

Nice angle, Dan!

[skipclone 1]

Originally posted by bottomend:

skipclone, where do you live? how long have you been in Japan?

 

To answer the question about learning romaji before learning hiragana/katakana/kanji, I would recommend skipping the romaji phase and just going straight to the characters. Think about it for a minute, you're simply attaching a sound to a symbol. If you spend the time learning (recognizing) character in the first place you wont have to back track and learn stuff twice. Using the actual Japanese character to learn how to voice (sound out) the characters will also make your pronunciation much less "barbarian" too....

Hey bottomend

I`ve been here almost six years, live in Matsudo

which is pretty close to Tokyo-just had an involuntary job change this year.

 

(BTW, Yo gtrmac-long time mon, nice to see you checking in).

 

I`m estimating another couple years here at most, some cool things happening but my future plans need some tweaking. I could see soming back though.

 

Anyway, no you really need the phonetic stuff too. Some things are in katakana only, there is no equivalent kanji.

[wraub]

I have never been to Japan, but I have always wanted to go. My wife is Asian, so a trip of the Pacific Rim is in the cards someday, and I can't wait.

I will second the comments about the Japanese I have met and cigarette smoking.

It's relentless!

I have seen this more than once among acquaintances and friends alike, but here's a story to illustrate:

A while back a Japanese band on a major label came to the studio where I worked in NYC. This involved the band, label reps, hangers-on, etc., and all but one smoked. Non-stop, literally.

This is true: At one point, one of the engineers with the band was sleeping in the studio lobby. The guy sat up, and still half asleep, had a smoke. He finished the smoke, and went back to sleep!

The guy woke to smoke!

Good band too, nice guys. But they sure smoked...

 

Peace,

 

wraub