Bought a P.A. but it's not Bose PAS

[LiveMusic]

...and I'm nervous. I have had my heart set on a Bose P.A.S. About $2,200 in hand. Which is a lot.

 

I called up Carvin and I'll be damned if the guy didn't talk me into a Carvin P.A. I will use this for solo (acoustic guitar/keys/vocal) BUT I want to also form a band and the P.A.S. is somewhat dicey with only one pole (for a band P.A.).

 

For $60 LESS ($2,143 in hand, shipped), I bought a 1200-1540 system, which includes a 12-channel Carvin mixer, Road Warrior case, two 15" 400W speakers, two speaker stands, two small monitors, two mic stands for monitors, cables, a 25' guitar cord, a Cobalt C780 jumbo acoustic-electric guitar and hardshell case.

 

I hope it's a good system. I have demo'd the Bose PAS but just in store. I was wanting to get it for its supposedly 'revolutionary' pristine sound. Especially for solo. It would only be worth it if it's truly giving a "wow" factor.

 

I have limited gear funds and I'm nervous about getting the right one. I guess I could buy a Bose and take it back if it doesn't beat the Carvin in a big way.

[Franknputer]

Sounds like a pretty good deal to me! Carvin systema are supposed to be pretty good, and you got a guitar in the deal too? Not bad, IMO. Definitely different from the P.A.S., but I think you made a good choice.

[Dennyf]

Here's the impression that I had after hearing the PAS recently. I previously posted this on the "For the Band" forum.

 

------------------

FINALLY actually heard a PAS last night.

 

Local open mic, there's a decent house PA, but these two kids wanted to set up their PAS anyway. Both played nylon-string guitars, one was 15, the other 18. I was wondering how they got in there, and which one talked his mom into buying him a $2000 amp.

 

First off, even though it's OT, I gotta say these kids were AMAZING! Ripped out a smoking arrangement of "Blue Moon," did a Django tune that I recognized but don't know the title of, were ripping out Travis picking, harp harmonics, smokin' bass-n-chord comping, excellent soloing--amazing. They go under the moniker "Superpickers," and they pretty much lived up to the name.

 

But anyway, back on-topic: The room comfortably accomodates about 150 people, and is "hard." Hardwood floors, glass in front, brick and plaster walls, high embossed tin ceiling. The sound can turn to mush pretty easily.

 

The PAS impressed me. It easily sounded better in that room than the house PA. It had a very smooth, natural sound, and didn't seem to suffer from reflections as much. I don't know why that would be, but it's true. Sounded good anywhere in the room, and for lack of an adequate way to describe the sound, I'll say that it sounded like I was right beside it rather than across the room from it. Kinda like the experience of sitting in front of my near-fields.

 

Now, admittedly this was just two nylon-string guitars, which didn't really stress the low end range of the system (they had one sub unit), or demand hi SPL. But I was still impressed with the "up front" quality of the sound in a room rife with reflections, standing waves and flutter echos.

 

And it took practically no time to set up and tear down. Didn't interrupt the flow anymore than any other performer changeover at this open mic.

 

I wasn't so overwhelmed that I felt like I just have to run out and get one, but they definitely seem to work as advertised, and I'd certainly be happy playing through one. But in spite of the sound and convenience, I don't perceive $2000 worth of value in the plastic and electronics involved.

 

If they were $1K instead of $2K, I'd consider dumping all my conventional PA gear and getting four PASs for my band and me. If I played exclusively solo gigs, I might consider one for myself.

 

But nahh. Good product, good concept, but the price point puts it in the "esoteric luxury item" category for me.

[LiveMusic]

Ain't that the truth. The price is just so doggone high. As for solo, that's what I'm worried about. A unique solo sound, that's very appealing but geez, that's a lot of money.

[deanmass]

I really think it is a function of elegance vs. function. From what I have heard of the PAS system, it is awesome. I ahve owned some Carvin gear, and continue to be impressed, however, I have also heard that when they die, they die hard and in an expensive fashion ( i.e. ship it away, get it fixed, etc)

 

I do not think you made a mistake with the Carvin rig.

 

How is Austin?

[Dak Lander]

Duke, I think you'll be very pleasantly surprised with that PA system.

Tha PA1200 will have plenty of power for you and will sound great. Those 1540 loudspeakers are very nice sounding.

PM5 small monitors? They sound damned fine too but won't work all that well for a full band. For a single or duo they'll shine.

It won't take too long to learn the system either. Quite an easy setup.

 

My PA rig is an old CX630 system that's been banged around for over five years. I can't believe how many times people have come up and commented on the great sound my system puts out and that are surprised to see it's a Carvin.

I'll be upgrading in the somewhat near future and I'm going with either that PA1200 powered mixer or the C1644P powered mixer. I have 12" and 15" loudspeakers already so I really only need the powered mixer though I may look at the 15" 3way speakers.

Though for my solo work the Bose PAS would be great, I can't justify the price.

[LiveMusic]

Dak, I bought those small monitors for solo gigs and so I could use them for here at home. Hopefully, they will work fine for home recording and practice here. The sales guy said they would and we know sales guys don't lie. Actually, he seemed pretty knowledgeable. Although, I do think he bashed Bose too hard on the P.A.S.

 

I have seen it time and time again, people are judging the PAS on past "non-pro audio" products from Bose. I keep thinking they truly do have something unique with that thing. If the PAS was just not so dang high, heck, I'd buy one of those, too. So easy to haul around is benefit ENOUGH for a solo guy.

 

To Deanmass, I didn't move to Austin. Although, yesterday, I did move to Beaumont, Texas, a few hours from Austin. If I like it okay here, I'll stay. Birthplace of George Jones. I think. Mark Chesnut is from here, as is Clay Walker. Uh, who'd I miss? That was... uh... Lance? that just moved to Austin.

[Dak Lander]

Originally posted by LiveMusic:

Dak, I bought those small monitors for solo gigs and so I could use them for here at home. Hopefully, they will work fine for home recording and practice here.

So, apparently you got the PM5s? Yeah, they'll work all the applications you're looking for. As stage monitors they'll be similar to the Galaxy Hot Spot VC but at 8 ohms versus 16 ohms for the Galaxies. It will be a learning experience if you're used to floor monitors but they should actually be less prone to feedback because they are, when place right, so far out of the back feed zone of most mics.

As a home listening monitor they will do a very good job but I don't know if they are shielded for near computers. If so, they'll do a credible job for monitoring your recordings, if not, you'll have to find a way to shield them or keep them far enough away to not be affected by the RF from the computer video monitor.

Carvin's SR6.5 series was the computer/recoding monitors I was looking hard at until Gas gave that great report on the M Audio units, and the PM5s are going to go under my patio cover/upper deck for outside sound re-inforcement. That's how good I think they are.

[LiveMusic]

Yes, it was the pm5 monitors. I forgot something else. Included in that total price was a cm68? mic. He said it was as good or better than a Shure 58. I needed a spare.

[FULLREFUSAL]

Originally posted by LiveMusic:

...and I'm nervous. I have had my heart set on a Bose P.A.S. About $2,200 in hand. Which is a lot.

 

I called up Carvin and I'll be damned if the guy didn't talk me into a Carvin P.A. I will use this for solo (acoustic guitar/keys/vocal) BUT I want to also form a band and the P.A.S. is somewhat dicey with only one pole (for a band P.A.).

 

For $60 LESS ($2,143 in hand, shipped), I bought a 1200-1540 system, which includes a 12-channel Carvin mixer, Road Warrior case, two 15" 400W speakers, two speaker stands, two small monitors, two mic stands for monitors, cables, a 25' guitar cord, a Cobalt C780 jumbo acoustic-electric guitar and hardshell case.

 

I hope it's a good system. I have demo'd the Bose PAS but just in store. I was wanting to get it for its supposedly 'revolutionary' pristine sound. Especially for solo. It would only be worth it if it's truly giving a "wow" factor.

 

I have limited gear funds and I'm nervous about getting the right one. I guess I could buy a Bose and take it back if it doesn't beat the Carvin in a big way.

I think you F@#$ed up...Send the Carvin back and get the PAS..Take the shipping hit or cancel the order before it ships...You have nothing to lose if you can do that. Go get the PAS and don't look back..For what you and I do, Solo, it can't be beat...NO Carvin gear is going to come close..sorry..I have an Excellent Mackie 808 1200 watt powered head and great speakers and I still know the PAS sounds better...

[LiveMusic]

Originally posted by FullRefusal.com:

For what you and I do, Solo, it can't be beat...NO Carvin gear is going to come close..sorry..I have an Excellent Mackie 808 1200 watt powered head and great speakers and I still know the PAS sounds better...

How MUCH better? Actually, the key is how much the AUDIENCE notices the PAS is better. Have you had a lot of people comment on how superior the sound is? If it is not truly far superior, I don't see how I can justify that price. I can live with lugging around all the regular PA stuff for awhile anyway. And then there is the band situation. One PAS... I dunno about that for a band.

[Dak Lander]

Originally posted by LiveMusic:

Yes, it was the pm5 monitors. I forgot something else. Included in that total price was a cm68? mic. He said it was as good or better than a Shure 58. I needed a spare.

The CM68 is a fine mic. I use one as my main live vocal mic. It's more akin to the beta 58 though. Nearly any live recording of mine you've heard is with that mic though there are one or two around using a Sennheiser that I can't remember the model number of. I liked the Carvin better.

 

You're right too, about just the one PAS not working with a band. A duet, yes, more? Not likely.

 

Sean,

I did a comparison of nearly every powered mixer in my, at the time, needs range and it came down to three units, Mackie, Yamaha & Carvin.

All three had great sound and very similar features, at the time. Carvin won out and I'm not sorry at all. I've since fired a bunch of them up as tests and I'm still going to go with a Carvin when I upgrade. The only other unit I found that would potentially sway me is a Phonic unit.

Phonic makes OEM equipment for quite a few manufacturers including Yamaha and I have one of their 12 channel mixers. It whips anything out there in it's range unless you want to triple or quadruple the money.

 

In essence, for Duke's needs, it's my opinion that he made a great choice in the Carvin gear.

[Chip Curtis]

I wanted to impress my drummer and my guitar player on New Years Eve 2000. I cranked my Carvin amps running through a six piece JBL PAS 15"x2, 12" mid and huge radial horn X 2 stereo to Jimme Hendrix' Star Spangled Banner live. This was in my house- in the living room/divorce studio. It was so freakin' loud I had to ultimately turn my rack off with my elbow. Two minutes later the cops showed up. The music was off. They looked in the door and saw my rig. All they said was, "Nice stereo."

 

Carvin- Strong stuff.

[Dak Lander]

Originally posted by Chip Curtis:

I wanted to impress my drummer and my guitar player on New Years Eve 2000. I cranked my Carvin amps running through a six piece JBL PAS 15"x2, 12" mid and huge radial horn X 2 stereo to Jimme Hendrix' Star Spangled Banner live. This was in my house- in the living room/divorce studio. It was so freakin' loud I had to ultimately turn my rack off with my elbow. Two minutes later the cops showed up. The music was off. They looked in the door and saw my rig. All they said was, "Nice stereo."

 

Carvin- Strong stuff.

Too funny. My son always has his Carvin 15" loudspeakers and amp connected to a player & uses that as his stereo.

I'm thining of moving my Carvin 12"ers into the front room in place of, or in addtion to, the BOSE 501s I have for my stereo.

[FULLREFUSAL]

Originally posted by daklander:

Originally posted by LiveMusic:

Yes, it was the pm5 monitors. I forgot something else. Included in that total price was a cm68? mic. He said it was as good or better than a Shure 58. I needed a spare.

The CM68 is a fine mic. I use one as my main live vocal mic. It's more akin to the beta 58 though. Nearly any live recording of mine you've heard is with that mic though there are one or two around using a Sennheiser that I can't remember the model number of. I liked the Carvin better.

 

You're right too, about just the one PAS not working with a band. A duet, yes, more? Not likely.

 

Sean,

I did a comparison of nearly every powered mixer in my, at the time, needs range and it came down to three units, Mackie, Yamaha & Carvin.

All three had great sound and very similar features, at the time. Carvin won out and I'm not sorry at all. I've since fired a bunch of them up as tests and I'm still going to go with a Carvin when I upgrade. The only other unit I found that would potentially sway me is a Phonic unit.

Phonic makes OEM equipment for quite a few manufacturers including Yamaha and I have one of their 12 channel mixers. It whips anything out there in it's range unless you want to triple or quadruple the money.

 

In essence, for Duke's needs, it's my opinion that he made a great choice in the Carvin gear.

Dakk..I'm going to say this with the utmost personal respect. It scares me to think that you think Phonic is quality gear. I have never heard of them making OEM stuff for other manufacturers and their stuff is CLEARLY crappy Chinese made poor quality stuff..I bought a phonic 12 channel mixer because I needed more channels and the thing not only sounded like crap, it fell apart in no time..I have never seen Yamaha quality as bad as Phonic so if they are making gear for yami, then it must be a much higher grade then the stuff they put out under their name. The fact that you would compare that Chinese Crap with my Mackie and then conclude that it not only beat it out, but sounded better then all the other top powered mixers you checked out, says it all...I mean this with respect, it's not personal but It's evident that you can not hear, see or tell the difference in quality audio gear...I mean, you can hear it in the pre's!!!! See it in the construction quality!!!...Well some people can't I guess...This is not a flame or personal so please don't attack me for it.

 

I'm glad you got the Carvin gear and you like it. SOME carvin gear is alright, but again it certainly not generally acknowledged as top. Not bad for the price i must admit.

 

The PAS is in another league then your Carvin and it's another Dimension away from ANY Phonic crap...

 

This is discussion and nevertheless, i'm glad you participated with insight as we are all entitled to our opinions. Have a good one.

[Dak Lander]

Sean, nothing taken though you didn't really read the context of my post.

I wasn't trying to compare the Phonic to a Mackie, or the other units. It wasn't in the running when I did my comparisons.

I found one later that I demoed for the hell of it and it sounded great though I didn't have the time to do a comparison. Maybe it was one in a million, who knows...So, my statement was, "The only other unit I found that would potentially sway me is a Phonic unit.", with the word "potentially" being the key. What's that mean? It means that IF I happen to find one when and if I decide to compare before upgrading, a Phonic will be run through the mill along with the rest of the units I'll look at. It took me six months of comparisons with the other units, four to four & a half to narrow it to the three units mentioned and the rest of the time to really check them, as well as you can in the stores. Price wasn't the only concern, and not the main one, but it did turn out to be a fairly large factor in the end because those three units were so close in sound.

 

Anyway, Phonic does happen to make product for OEM's including Yamaha and I've had no issues with the mixer I have. It's got everything I need in a mixer to this point & the quality has been fine and is going on three years old. Though it's normally on my desk I've taken it out to several gigs and used it for mic feeds for recording. No issues yet, the pres are decent for an inexpensive mixer and better than those on some more expensive mixers, the sliders and pots are clean and smooth.

As to your statement about quality, the case is metal with a fine fit and with the pots, pres, inserts, connections & etc being fine and working great, I don't see where it is not a quality unit. Because the name doesn't say Mackie?

 

I can say the same about the Carvin gear I have. It's all working great after over five years of knocking around. The pots, ins, outs, cases, handles & everything else associated with them is just fine so, it's a quality product.

 

About a year ago I played a small outdoor event that used a Mackie mixer, JBL active monitors and Sennheiser mics. Most of my gigs are outdoors so I'm familiar with outdoor sound and I think my Carvin rig sounds better and happens to be a heck of a lot less expensive.

 

Again Sean, no offense taken and none meant and I happen to be glad you've had good luck with your Mackie rig.

 

Oh, & as far as the PAS goes, it's a fine product but, as you know, new on the market. Time will tell if it holds up.

[Steve123]

Phonic is a Taiwanese manufacturer:

Phonic does OEM/ODM for Yamaha and Roland

 

A friend showed me a Phonic powered mixer he bought - as far as he could tell it was identical to an offering by Yamaha - and less expensive. Not recommending it - only pointing out the connection.

 

Steve

[FULLREFUSAL]

Originally posted by Steve123:

Phonic is a Taiwanese manufacturer:

Phonic does OEM/ODM for Yamaha and Roland

 

A friend showed me a Phonic powered mixer he bought - as far as he could tell it was identical to an offering by Yamaha - and less expensive. Not recommending it - only pointing out the connection.

 

Steve

Right on..The stuff I had circa last year was utter garbage...Maybe they've come up.

[FULLREFUSAL]

Originally posted by daklander:

Sean, nothing taken though you didn't really read the context of my post.

I wasn't trying to compare the Phonic to a Mackie, or the other units. It wasn't in the running when I did my comparisons.

I found one later that I demoed for the hell of it and it sounded great though I didn't have the time to do a comparison. Maybe it was one in a million, who knows...So, my statement was, "The only other unit I found that would potentially sway me is a Phonic unit.", with the word "potentially" being the key. What's that mean? It means that IF I happen to find one when and if I decide to compare before upgrading, a Phonic will be run through the mill along with the rest of the units I'll look at. It took me six months of comparisons with the other units, four to four & a half to narrow it to the three units mentioned and the rest of the time to really check them, as well as you can in the stores. Price wasn't the only concern, and not the main one, but it did turn out to be a fairly large factor in the end because those three units were so close in sound.

 

Anyway, Phonic does happen to make product for OEM's including Yamaha and I've had no issues with the mixer I have. It's got everything I need in a mixer to this point & the quality has been fine and is going on three years old. Though it's normally on my desk I've taken it out to several gigs and used it for mic feeds for recording. No issues yet, the pres are decent for an inexpensive mixer and better than those on some more expensive mixers, the sliders and pots are clean and smooth.

As to your statement about quality, the case is metal with a fine fit and with the pots, pres, inserts, connections & etc being fine and working great, I don't see where it is not a quality unit. Because the name doesn't say Mackie?

 

I can say the same about the Carvin gear I have. It's all working great after over five years of knocking around. The pots, ins, outs, cases, handles & everything else associated with them is just fine so, it's a quality product.

 

About a year ago I played a small outdoor event that used a Mackie mixer, JBL active monitors and Sennheiser mics. Most of my gigs are outdoors so I'm familiar with outdoor sound and I think my Carvin rig sounds better and happens to be a heck of a lot less expensive.

 

Again Sean, no offense taken and none meant and I happen to be glad you've had good luck with your Mackie rig.

 

Oh, & as far as the PAS goes, it's a fine product but, as you know, new on the market. Time will tell if it holds up.

Right on man, I hate trying to convey a point in writing because there are no subtleties whatsoever....

[LiveMusic]

Sean Mormelo... this from a previous post (my words)...

 

How MUCH better? Actually, the key is how much the AUDIENCE notices the PAS is better. Have you had a lot of people comment on how superior the sound is? If it is not truly far superior, I don't see how I can justify that price. I can live with lugging around all the regular PA stuff for awhile anyway. And then there is the band situation. One PAS... I dunno about that for a band.

 

So, what has your audience said? I assume you have one pole/bass module.

 

This is important to me or I wouldn't ask again.

[FULLREFUSAL]

Originally posted by LiveMusic:

Sean Mormelo... this from a previous post (my words)...

 

How MUCH better? Actually, the key is how much the AUDIENCE notices the PAS is better. Have you had a lot of people comment on how superior the sound is? If it is not truly far superior, I don't see how I can justify that price. I can live with lugging around all the regular PA stuff for awhile anyway. And then there is the band situation. One PAS... I dunno about that for a band.

 

So, what has your audience said? I assume you have one pole/bass module.

 

This is important to me or I wouldn't ask again.

Hey Duke, The audience knows when it sounds really good or really bad..I have found. As far as how much better the PAS would be...well you will have to ask Lee that because she has one and uses it. I have demoed it and heard it in use and know others who own it who's ears are golden. i didnt' know you were looking at One PAS for a whole band....I thought you were a solo act...In that case, I would go with something else as far as bang for the buck.

[LiveMusic]

Originally posted by FullRefusal.com:

Hey Duke, The audience knows when it sounds really good or really bad..I have found. As far as how much better the PAS would be...well you will have to ask Lee that because she has one and uses it. I have demoed it and heard it in use and know others who own it who's ears are golden. i didnt' know you were looking at One PAS for a whole band....I thought you were a solo act...In that case, I would go with something else as far as bang for the buck.

I _am_ solo. BUT also wanting to form a band. I thought _you_ had one. For solo.

 

Lee's band has three systems.

 

As for me, it's the cart before the horse, since I don't yet have a band. But having this few thousand dollars to spend on stuff, I was buying the Carvin to do BOTH. Although, for now, SOLO is obviously more important because that's a for sure thing. Who knows, the band thing might take months. I don't know what to do. I had a guy talking about "backing me" (money). Maybe he'll buy me one.

[LiveMusic]

Bump.

 

Carvin still has not shipped my stuff and I am pissed. That was part of the deal, to get it out right away.

 

If anyone has any Bose comments, please do. I might cancel the Carvin deal. Debating.

[Lee Flier]

Duke,

 

Well I don't know if you will consider my comments "objective" or not , but here's my 2 cents. We (3 piece band) have in fact used a single PAS at times, for acoustic coffeehouse gigs and in-store appearances at record stores. And yes, audiences have commented on how good it sounds. Funnily enough, our old PA (which we still have mothballed) is a Carvin. I think Carvins are a great bang for the buck and that little PA held up well under years of abuse (it belonged to my bandmates' former band before we got together so it was in use for about 6 years). And it's not bad at all, but we much prefer the sound of the PAS, and our ability to hear the mix well, and we certainly don't miss hauling speakers and monitors around.

 

If you play regularly with a full band you would probably want to get at least a second PAS, but for an acoustic oriented solo, duo or trio act one system would do fine, and yes I do think you and audiences would notice a difference. And if you do decide to go that route, I think Bose offers a 45 day return guarantee and will even pay for return shipping if you don't like it. I'm not positive the return shipping deal is still going on, but you might ask them if you call them.

 

Also, Tim from Jersey (Flemtone) bought a single PAS for his solo gig and loves it. You might want to ask him about it.

[LiveMusic]

As for a band... I just got a reply from a friend who is in a band. They have drums, bass, guitar, singer. Bought the Bose, two poles, two bass modules, I think. He said they returned it because "it took up as much floor space as our regular PA and could not reproduce the bass without breaking up." Said he did like the clean sound though but "it wasn't a fit for us." I haven't heard anyone complain about the bass guitar. Hmmm...

 

But as for solo...

[Cowbell]

Originally posted by LiveMusic:

Bump.

 

Carvin still has not shipped my stuff and I am pissed. That was part of the deal, to get it out right away.

 

If anyone has any Bose comments, please do. I might cancel the Carvin deal. Debating.

It's okay Duke, the same thing happened to me. I waited about 2 weeks longer than I should have, but when I got it I was more than happy.