Favorite Mid-Side Applications?

[Anderton]

Just wondering if y'all have any "go-to" mid-side processing applications. I have an FX Chain in Studio One that does mid-side reverb processing, and it's pretty cool to be able to drop the mid as needed, or EQ that and not the sides. How about you?

[Chip McDonald]

Good tip, I need to remember M/S for taking the middle out of reverb, that seems really obvious. Gah. I love the M/S eq in Waves _Omni Channel_. Simple to implement, simple to ignore otherwise. Handy for putting the focus on the "C" in LCR, de-emphasizing the CINEmatic steREO of drum sample overheads, getting a "mastered for phono record" bass spectrum.

[Anderton]

I also think the Omni Channel is pretty fabulous, and not just for mid-side. On a more utilitarian note, mid-side EQ is good for processing old recordings from the 60s and 70s to give a more balanced sound.

[Chip McDonald]

I also think the Omni Channel is pretty fabulous, and not just for mid-side. .

 

I think the Line 6 DL4 is the greatest, most well-thought out pedal of all time. The Omni Channel makes me think that about plug-ins, it's GOAT of plugins IMO. There's nothing about it that makes me think "I wish they'd done "this" instead" or "that's a throwaway feature". Everything sounds natural and useable, does what you expect. A true "channel strip" work flow.

[Nathanael_I]

I have the Slate Digital Vari-Mu bus compressor on my master bus. There's a switch to put it in M/S mode, and it doesn't ever leave that position. I get the mix as absolutely good as I can without it. Then I turn it on, get it so that the needle is barely moving 1-2 dB maximum on mid or sides. And then I play with the makeup gain and see where the sweet spot is between the sides and mid. There's always a place that the sound just gels. Hit the bypass and the sound gets smaller and not as homogeneous. Working with that plugin and what it does has me desiring to explore a real Vari-Mu from Manley, or Knif, etc.

 

In terms of single instruments, I use MSED to adjust the image of Blumelein pairs on piano or overheads. I've also used it to help put synth patches where I want them as it can narrow them, or push them just to the sides as ambiance.

 

So, I guess, yes, I use M/S regularly and instinctively - once you know how to manipulate the apparent width, it's a creative choice. My dream master bus is a M/S chain with a VariMu style compressor and a stereo EQ. That "finishes" things for me.

[Anderton]

Then I turn it on, get it so that the needle is barely moving 1-2 dB maximum on mid or sides. And then I play with the makeup gain and see where the sweet spot is between the sides and mid. There's always a place that the sound just gels.

 

I think what you're doing right is using so little gain reduction. I see people get into trouble when they put a lot of compression on the mid, without realizing that their sides are in the mid as well. So then the sides end up getting compressed in the mid but not in the sides, and it sounds weird...like the sides can't make up their mind whether to be compressed or not.

[RABid]

Craig, sometimes I think that I can almost hang with you, then you start talking about something like this and totally looses me.

 

Honestly, I do see the value in cutting the mids in the reverb since that is where the mud likes to hang. Will have to check the reverbs in my UA collection and see. Since vesting in the UA software I don't have any hardware effects.

[Nathanael_I]

Then I turn it on, get it so that the needle is barely moving 1-2 dB maximum on mid or sides. And then I play with the makeup gain and see where the sweet spot is between the sides and mid. There's always a place that the sound just gels.

 

I think what you're doing right is using so little gain reduction. I see people get into trouble when they put a lot of compression on the mid, without realizing that their sides are in the mid as well. So then the sides end up getting compressed in the mid but not in the sides, and it sounds weird...like the sides can't make up their mind whether to be compressed or not.

 

Yeah, I always make sure the mid and sides are compressing equally. Occasionally it's as high as 2-3dB, but that's it. I mostly just have it "working", and adjust the attack/release so that it is not calling attention to itself on either mid or sides. Then using the makeup gain controls to alter the M/S balance keeps the effect you mention from happening. I'm not sure what it is, but there is a "box tone" if you will on that plugin and it does useful things without heavy compression, which I'm generally not looking for anyway. I'm looking for "glue", not level out of it.

 

I think that compressor came in a bundle with two others. I rarely use the others. But this one.... it's in the template.

[Theo Verelst]

With a microphone setup you can try to record L-->R and R-->L sound waves separately from forward sound waves, and instead of recording a close by set of mikes in stereo, record the "forward" sound component separate from LR.

 

It's not exactly the same as discerning L and R in a stereo mix where there is only hard panned left and right or pure mono tracks in you mix.

 

Also, having mixed down L M R to LR in stereo, you can no longer distinguish the mid component in isolation, unless there is no time overlap between LR and mid components, reducing three information sources to two reduces information.

 

When mixing for a theater where each chair receies a proper sound image, the LR components eed to take over most of the sound field generation, thepure mid components as in equal signal to left and right in the stereo mix sounds wrong outside the line through the center of the speakers, so it is possible if you have three (or more) channels: middle, left, and right to use a middle speakers so the whole audience hears the sound as coming from the mid sectionof the podium or silver screen.

 

T

[Anderton]

Craig, sometimes I think that I can almost hang with you, then you start talking about something like this and totally looses me.

 

Honestly, I do see the value in cutting the mids in the reverb since that is where the mud likes to hang. Will have to check the reverbs in my UA collection and see. Since vesting in the UA software I don't have any hardware effects.

 

You don't necessarily need mid-side processors per se, it's more like something you construct. Studio One and Ableton Live have mid-side encoder/decoders, but you can download the free MSED encoder/decoder from voxengo.com. Here's a blog post I did on how to assemble mid-side reverb in Studio One, the same concepts apply to other DAWs. Studio One makes it more convenient because their "Mixtool" plug-in can do mid-side encoding/decoding, but MSED will do the same thing. It just takes a little more effort...hmmm, a good article for craiganderton.org might be how to turn any effect into a mid-side processing setup.