IK Multimedia Modo Drum-Anybody Have?

[KuruPrionz]

Does anybody else have this or use it? I've surfed a bit and read a couple of reviews - this early one by Sound On Sound is thorough if a bit discouraging in places. https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/ik-multimedia-modo-drum

 

I honestly do not believe that a software program will ever truly capture the expression that a set of hi hats played by a real drummer can offer and it appears Modo Drum is limited in that regard. Same as it ever was.

 

I know, I should ignore these things.

I didn't, I read and listened. I've just started really figuring out Studio Drummer and comparing the sounds, it falls short in some ways. It's older, I forgive it. I really should just practice and learn to get everything I can out of my Korg Wavedrum and pick up a nice hi hat set up.

 

At the same time, IK seems to have made notable improvements. Having a great real drummer and an ideal place to record them would be the best solution. I know a couple of truly fine drummers.

I know places where I could record with them.

 

I can't do it when ever I want. I can't do it with total control of the volume including silence for others (headphones). I can't do it without probably ruffling feathers once in a while. And i can't do it without more money than I have available. Rooms and drummers cost money, that's all fair and reasonable until you can't afford the indulgence. Then it is bad and wrong!

 

It's on sale, I'm thinking about adding to my stuffs. I might be able to delete a couple of other programs since it appears to have them more than covered and they are old enough that updates are not coming, ever.

 

With their 40% off and my Jam Points I can get it down to around $130. It is certainly a rabbit hole but I find myself frustrated with drums more than anything else. It may not solve that frustration but it will certainly alleviate it considerably. If the world was perfect I would be wealthy and bored to death...

 

Please feel free to chime in, if there is something you like better I'd love to hear about it. If you hate everything and have your own solutions I'd love to hear about that too. Cheers, Kuru

[Mike Rivers]

Don't they still have a free demo? Give it a listen as the drums in a few of your projects.

 

I don't know much about electric bass, and even less about drums, but I can tell you that their Modo Bass taught me more about what contributes to the sound of the instrument, and in what ways, than I ever thought I'd want to know. I have a review on my web site that doesn't tell you a lot about how accurately it duplicates a given instrument, it's more about how the various parameters that you can play with relate to the real world - that is, how they design and build basses at the factory and how they can be modified and how far you can go without losing it - or creating it.

 

You have to be careful, with a program like this, to not forget your goal - to put down a good drum track and move on, and not spend hours and days changing heads and brackets and shells and sticks and striking positions to see where it takes you.

[KuruPrionz]

Don't they still have a free demo? Give it a listen as the drums in a few of your projects.

 

I don't know much about electric bass, and even less about drums, but I can tell you that their Modo Bass taught me more about what contributes to the sound of the instrument, and in what ways, than I ever thought I'd want to know. I have a review on my web site that doesn't tell you a lot about how accurately it duplicates a given instrument, it's more about how the various parameters that you can play with relate to the real world - that is, how they design and build basses at the factory and how they can be modified and how far you can go without losing it - or creating it.

 

You have to be careful, with a program like this, to not forget your goal - to put down a good drum track and move on, and not spend hours and days changing heads and brackets and shells and sticks and striking positions to see where it takes you.

 

Thanks MIke, yes I saw the demo but I didn't download it yet. I should do it and give it a spin this weekend.

I hear ya on getting way out in the weeds, you'll fall square into a rabbit hole every time. My approach is usually to toss in something that works and then over a period of days or weeks to add or subtract parts that improve the song. I really don't give crap one about "does this sound like the real thing?" because it doesn't matter to me in the slightest. On the other hand some of those kits will sound better for a particular song or artist than others will.

 

I have two basses and played lots of gigs on bass. I am not a scary good bassist but I can find the groove, lock it and decorate sparingly, which is the bassists job. I have an installer for Scarbee Bass - Native Instruments. It is a Rickenbacker bass, which I don't have and it sounds great but I don't care. If I was a better drummer I would just play those parts too. Cheers, Kuru

[KuruPrionz]

Step One will be to figure out what I can get rid or and/or run from a remote drive since Modo Drums wants 12 gigs of space and I have about 4 left.

Considering that I haven't used a keyboard MIDI controller in months I probably have way more keyboard oriented plugins than I need or will ever even try.

Quite a few of them have been taking up space, unused, for years. Some of those sound libraries are huge.

 

I think I'll move them to a backup drive and then delete them from my main drive. Ugh, such fun...

[Mike Rivers]

Step One will be to figure out what I can get rid or and/or run from a remote drive since Modo Drums wants 12 gigs of space and I have about 4 left.

 

That's a lot of disk space for physical modeling program. I'd expect that from a collection of samples, but physical modeling doesn't play samples, it applies all the things to a basic waveform that the instrument does to it to create the sound of that instrument. For instance, for a brass instrument, it looks at how the horn expands throughout its length - all the way, or just at the bell, and figures out what that does to the harmonic of the the waveform that the player's lips generate,

 

I looked at ModoBass to see how much disk space it requires, and it didn't find it on the web page, perhaps because it was nothing to worry about. I looked at the program itself and the newest version is just a tad under 200 MB. It's unlikely that it's hiding samples in some other folder, as the download file (a ZIP) is just a little smaller than that.

[KuruPrionz]

Modo Drum is modeling and sampling, all the cymbals are sampled for one.

 

Was an 8+ gig download that expands when installed to 12+ gigs. Huge program, Studio Drummer was around 8 gigs total.

 

I guess good drum sounds are trickier than synths, even pianos. My biggest piano program is The Gentleman and it's around 6 gigs.

[KuruPrionz]

Reading up on it, it is likely that IK is offering the trial download complete with VST, VST3, AAX and for Mac OS, AU versions. I will likely run either the VST3 or AU version only. That makes the download much larger than the installation. I'll still need to make room.

[Mike Rivers]

IK is offering the trial download complete with VST, VST3, AAX and for Mac OS, AU versions. I will likely run either the VST3 or AU version only. That makes the download much larger than the installation. I'll still need to make room.

 

I'm sure they don't duplicate the samples for every format, but then what do I know about virtual instrument programming? Or any programming for that matter. Still, disk space is disk space. 1-Terabyte drives are getting mighty cheap these days.

[KuruPrionz]

IK is offering the trial download complete with VST, VST3, AAX and for Mac OS, AU versions. I will likely run either the VST3 or AU version only. That makes the download much larger than the installation. I'll still need to make room.

 

I'm sure they don't duplicate the samples for every format, but then what do I know about virtual instrument programming? Or any programming for that matter. Still, disk space is disk space. 1-Terabyte drives are getting mighty cheap these days.

 

 

No doubt this is true. Perhaps there is very little code required and, as usual, my speculations are way off kilter.

Disc space is cheap but changing out a drive in a MacBook Pro is not something I want to attempt myself.

I need to create an external boot drive anyway.

 

This sale runs into early January so I have time to consider my options.

[KuruPrionz]

I installed the demo last night. Recent events in the real world prevent much exploration - yet. I hope to take it for a spin on the weekend.

The installation size was 12.1 gigs, it took some doing to clear that much space on my boot drive as it is 512mb and plugins have gotten a bit out of hand.

 

Thursday delivery for a 2tb Thunderbolt 2 drive that will become my dedicated recording drive. 4x the space and it will clear up the boot drive considerably.

I'll touch bases again when I know more about Modo Drum - soon.

[Dr Mike Metlay]

Please keep us informed! Depending on your goals, that's one of a variety of options; I really like what EZdrummer2 can do, as Toontrack really has the "get something that sounds realistic and musical, super fast" thing down pat.

 

Drum sample libraries can be huge if you capture everything: drums close in, drums far back, different room mic placements, different mic types, all kinds of dynamics, and the really monster products like Superior Drummer 3 even let you include mic bleed for the ultimate in realism.

 

I don't use IK products much any more, for a variety of reasons, so I can't speak directly to Modo Drums specifically.

 

But yeah, man, it's time to start doing external bootable drives. What vintage is your MacBook Pro? I have a 2012 (the last pre-Retina) and it runs Mojave happily with two internal 1 TB SSDs, one boot and one audio content. (I ripped out the CD drive to make room for the second SSD.) If you have a newer one than that, check Other World Computing's site for teardown and drive replacement videos for your particular model. That will at least tell you how hard a job it will be. (Don't buy OWC brand SSDs, by the way, they have a horrific failure rate.)

[KuruPrionz]

Please keep us informed! Depending on your goals, that's one of a variety of options; I really like what EZdrummer2 can do, as Toontrack really has the "get something that sounds realistic and musical, super fast" thing down pat.

 

Drum sample libraries can be huge if you capture everything: drums close in, drums far back, different room mic placements, different mic types, all kinds of dynamics, and the really monster products like Superior Drummer 3 even let you include mic bleed for the ultimate in realism.

 

I don't use IK products much any more, for a variety of reasons, so I can't speak directly to Modo Drums specifically.

 

But yeah, man, it's time to start doing external bootable drives. What vintage is your MacBook Pro? I have a 2012 (the last pre-Retina) and it runs Mojave happily with two internal 1 TB SSDs, one boot and one audio content. (I ripped out the CD drive to make room for the second SSD.) If you have a newer one than that, check Other World Computing's site for teardown and drive replacement videos for your particular model. That will at least tell you how hard a job it will be. (Don't buy OWC brand SSDs, by the way, they have a horrific failure rate.)

 

Thanks Sir Mike,

 

To put things in perspective, since I qualify for a cross-grade and I have some Jam points, with the current promotion Modo Drum goes from being $299 to $86.

That changes the considerations for competition, there isn't much in that price range and money is tight for the time being. I plan on firing it up tomorrow and playing with it, I have the manual too. If I like it, I'll pull the trigger.

 

IK has had their ups and downs - I hated SampleTank 3, it froze my DAW constantly. They made good with SampleTank 4, it works great without problems and I LOVE the Clavitube plugin, it's awesome played with my Fishman Triple Play guitar. I dislike that Amplitube is packed with stuff I didn't pay for that won't work but there is a workaround for that. I would hate TRackS for the same reason but every one of the plugins installs separately and can be used on it's own so you just need to go into your Plugins folder on the system and delete all the ones you don't own. I guess I have sort of love/hate thing going.

 

On the other hand, a long time ago I bought something from OWC (so long ago I've forgotten what it was) and it was a piece of crap. They did not accept returns so I got hosed. That was the only time I've ever done business with them.

 

2014 MacBook Pro with 15" screen, 16 gigs RAM and a new 512k SSD drive. I'll probably just leave it be. I have a 1tb Thunderbolt 2 drive plugged into the back of a Presonus Quantum so I can run my recording setup from a single TB2 port. I am mostly done installing a "just what I want and nothing else" recording setup on a bootable (Catalina) 2tb TB2 drive that I will plug into the other TB2 jack on the MBP.

 

Plan is to continue to use the one hooked to the Quantum for tracking and the 2tb one to boot and run all the software. It has enough space to be a backup drive for the recording drive and then I can also use it for mixing.

 

I also have a variety of actual percussion and drum stuffs and can lay down beats well enough to use them for at least part of the sounds. I want some nice high hat cymbals and a stand, those and the snare ( I have 3 little ones) are by far the most expressive part of any drum kit.

 

AND, I have a Korg Wavedrum Global and a Roland HR15 Handsonic.

 

Yes, drums are important!!! If you get those and the bass right it's hard to go wrong. OT but I've got 2 nice basses, a Tech 21 Sansamp Bass Driver DI V2 and a couple of great old small tube amp heads I can run through a JBL speaker if I want to get "real" with the bass.

 

Now I just need to do something!!!!!

[Dr Mike Metlay]

Now I just need to do something!!!!!

WHAAAT? Who let YOU in? Get out of here!

[KuruPrionz]

Now I just need to do something!!!!!

WHAAAT? Who let YOU in? Get out of here!

 

 

That tears it!!! I'mma do stuffs, all kinda stuffs!!!!!!!

[KuruPrionz]

OK, I gave Modo Drum a spin.

 

10 kits, all sound really good as is. 9 rooms, again all good - just depends on what sound you want.

A comprehensive mixer with 13 effects available. The effects are all derived from TrackS plugins, Waveform spotted 17 new plugins but all are contained inside Modo Drum.

 

Tunable drums and cymbals and all sorts of each including tambourine and clap sounds.

Can change types of heads, type of sticks or beaters, area of the heads that takes a strike, which hand hits first - left or right, size of the drums, how much the snare and the kick make each other and the toms resonate, how much room mic you want (in 9 different rooms) and on and on...

It's pretty easy to get your MIDI loops dropped into the DAW so you can pick, choose an build a viable track for your song. I made an unfortunate first choice and it changed the way the song sounded but was not good.

 

The loops have a great variety of styles including reggae, jazz and Latin beats.

There was a Jazz beat that I could hum Take 5 by Dave Brubeck to - 5/4 time!!! 

The country beats had waltzes and train beats, essentials for me. 

The beats come in "song sets" including intros, verses, fills, choruses and outros. No brushes yet, maybe they will add those. I like those. 

The cymbal sounds are sampled and sound really good - like real cymbals which is what they used.

The drums are modeled rather than sampled, that allows the wider range of tones and more realistic sounding re-tuning.  

 

There is more, lots more. RABBIT HOLE!!!!! I didn't try more than I did try, there are LOTS of options.

 

I have use of the trial version for 8 more days.

Pretty sure it's $86 well spent. I need versatility here but also great tones, this delivers on both fronts. 

[KuruPrionz]

I did have a couple of bugaboos but nothing that can't be solved easily.

First, I am running Catalina on a Mac and it is a fresh install to an external drive. I set up Preferences to work well with recording but I may have missed something.

I didn't go to Audio/MIDI setup yet for Modo Drum and probably need to do that.

 

When I tried to drag and drop a MIDI file the size of the plugin window hid the dialog box asking me if I really wanted to add the clip.

 

I didn't see it until I dismissed the plugin window. Then when I wanted to open the plugin window again to try a different drum set, it opened behind Waveform so I didn't know it was open.

 

I restarted and that solved the problem with Modo Drum hiding behind Waveform. I'll figure the other one out, maybe I just need to size the window a bit smaller.

Worst case, I know it happens now so I can just close the window, click yes and move forward. Minor problem at worst.

[Mike Rivers]

There is more, lots more. RABBIT HOLE!!!!! I didn't try more than I did try, there are LOTS of options.

 

I have use of the trial version for 8 more days.

Pretty sure it's $86 well spent. I need versatility here but also great tones, this delivers on both fronts. 

 

Holy Moley! That's a lot of stuff to figure out in just a couple of days. You have to really care about drum sounds in order to take advantage of all the the tools and tweaks. It's good to have all that stuff if you can figure out what you want and get it pretty quickly. Otherwise, as you say, it's Rabbit Season.

[KuruPrionz]

It IS a LOT of stuff!!!!

The good part is that you can simply ignore all of those features, select a genre, select a beat group, choose a drum set and a room and just start arranging a track for your song.

 

The Rabbit Holes are optional. They've made it fairly simple to save presets for any useful variations you may want to re-visit.

 

As per my usual, I do my best thinking when I don't think. Last night I noticed they have a way to re-assign MIDI in Modo Drum. I haven't gone there but since pretty much everything can be saved as a preset, I assume that function can also be saved as a preset.

 

Which means you can use MIDI tracks from other drum programs. I have NI Studio Drummer and there are well over 1,000 loops there too and some good beats. Both programs sync to the tempo map of the song you've created.

That would make MIDI clips interchangeable between the two programs, giving me somewhere around 2600+ beats and fills to play with.

I haven't gone very far with NI Drum Lab, the sounds are more electronica-based but there is another library of MIDI beats that should sync up.

 

My other thought this morning is that it is possible that not using a re-assigned MIDI map could lead to some "interesting" variations. I've got a good arrangement for Studio Drummer for the song I was messing with last night. I've saved a new version so I can do whatever I want to it.

 

Today I plan to try copying the MIDI arrangement from Studio Drummer over to the track where I have Modo Drum as a plugin without changing anything else and seeing what it sounds like.

Since both programs have complete mixers one could come up with all sorts of fun stuff that way.

Yes, I am insane...

[KuruPrionz]

Slightly off topic but relevant.

I've made an external drive into a bootable Mac OS Catalina drive, set up Preferences to remove any and all RAM "wasters" that do things that are fun but not needed like blips and blats and putting the HD to sleep and screensavers etc.

Then I installed only software for recording, cleared the Dock of all distractions etc. Before pulling the trigger on any new plugins, I wanted to test for latency. I recorded a scratch vocal on a song that has several tracks already.

No problems whatsoever at around 5 milliseconds - which I can't really hear.

 

All good, I pulled the trigger. I guess there is no sales tax on software? Or IK is in Italy and does not give one single crap about it. Fine with me. $85.99 and Modo Drum is mine. I have a copy of the Installer and will make another copy on a different drive.

 

I haven't really used it enough yet to answer questions but the free 10 day trial works fine with no annoyances and includes a copy of the manual - all 110 pages of it!!!!!

It will be on sale into early January if anybody wants it. Cheers, Kuru

[KuruPrionz]

I just copied the MIDI track of a drum arrangement I made in Native Instruments Studio Drummer and pasted it into a new track.

Then I dropped Modo Drum into that track to see how it would play that MIDI track. Kick, snare, hats etc. were in sync, followed the dynamics etc. I just played it once, I got the impression that maybe a couple of tom hits were reassigned. I'll evaluate that later and see if I'm right or not.

 

I also tried playing both drum tracks at the same time and the sync was tight. I liked the sound of the combined drums, that opens up some powerful possibilities for mixing the final version.

 

This means the two softwares can play well together, that's an idea that I think is really fun!

[KuruPrionz]

^^^ Per the above post, Studio Drummer has 3 different drum sets, Modo Drum has 9, that's 27 sets. Add in each one by itself and it's 29.

Add in that each set can be tuned and/or randomized and it's umpty bazaillion.

 

Which is to say nothing of ability in Modo Drum to make custom sets or tune individual drums or change the drum size, type of head, type of striker, area of strike etc.

 

A rabbit hole the size of the Universe!!!1

 

Then there is the whole automation tracks thingie, the convert to audio and parallel process the mix deal.

I just want to make good sounding tracks. The two snares and kicks combined that happened to be up and running at the moment an everything panned to the middle was really nice without doing anything much.

 

So I'm not trapped in finding something good, it's already there. I can pursue "gooder" at my leisure or just take what I get if it works.

[Mike Rivers]

I just want to make good sounding tracks. The two snares and kicks combined that happened to be up and running at the moment an everything panned to the middle was really nice without doing anything much.

 

So I'm not trapped in finding something good, it's already there. I can pursue "gooder" at my leisure or just take what I get if it works.

 

That's good, as long as it always works out that way. Or maybe you can use that same sound set for everything. Wouldn't that be nice?

 

Does it get some information from the tracks that are already there and provide sound and textures in response? Or did you just make a lucky pick? Or something else? I'm not clear on how much of a drum track creator it is, if it's that at all. I thought it was a very comprehensive and what-would-a-live-drummer-do? sound creation program.

[KuruPrionz]

I just want to make good sounding tracks. The two snares and kicks combined that happened to be up and running at the moment an everything panned to the middle was really nice without doing anything much.

 

So I'm not trapped in finding something good, it's already there. I can pursue "gooder" at my leisure or just take what I get if it works.

 

That's good, as long as it always works out that way. Or maybe you can use that same sound set for everything. Wouldn't that be nice?

 

Does it get some information from the tracks that are already there and provide sound and textures in response? Or did you just make a lucky pick? Or something else? I'm not clear on how much of a drum track creator it is, if it's that at all. I thought it was a very comprehensive and what-would-a-live-drummer-do? sound creation program.

 

What it means is that the MIDI track assignments are essentially the same. The track that triggers the kick drum in Studio Drummer also triggers the kick drum in Modo Drum. This is also true of the snare drum, the hi-hats etc.

I haven't gone deep to determine if the toms are accurate. f not, Modo Drum has a function that allows adjustment to the way it reads MIDI tracks and I can probably make adjustments. That can be saved as a preset.

 

Just took a look at Native Instruments Studio Drummer page, they are claiming 3,500 + grooves in MIDI clips. Which means I now have over 5k different MIDI groove clips to choose from. Oddly, they claim 3,300 grooves near the top ot the page and 3,500 down a bit: https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/drums/studio-drummer/

 

Either way, there are LOTS of choices.

 

I've listened to samples in MODO Drum of a variety of drum loops, they sound very much like a real drummer playing a part - which is similar to Studio Drummer where they did in fact have a drummer play the parts.

In the end, if a track "feels good" that works for me.

 

The tracks are broken down in different ways, Studio Drummer offers a set of genres, then grooves in each genre and each groove has variations on the groove plus a set of "Fills" to provide options for putting an arrangement together out of MIDI clips. Modo Drum offers a set of genres (some different ones in both programs and some similar) and then it has "song sets" with loops for Intro, Verse, Chorus, Fill, Outro. Of course you can use anything for anything if it suits the purpose.

 

Next I will try dropping a Modo Drum track into Superior Drummer and see how that plays. If the Toms are in another order I'll have my answer on that question.

Either way, when both programs have identical MIDI loops to play from, they are locked in sync. Both programs have comprehensive mixer and tuning controls. So you could combine a high, bright snare with a low, fat one if that sounds better, OR make audio tracks from both and blend them using automation to serve the song. Or go stereo with a tiny, modulated delay to put the two sets slightly out of sync like real drummers playing together - The Doobie Brothers or the Grateful Dead come to mind.

 

Since they both lock to the tempo entered in the DAW they will both play in time even if you choose different clips.

 

Truly endless variations. I plan on exploring some of them and may use bits and dabs here and there if it seems they will enhance the story.

[Mike Rivers]

Does it get some information from the tracks that are already there and provide sound and textures in response?

 

What it means is that the MIDI track assignments are essentially the same. The track that triggers the kick drum in Studio Drummer also triggers the kick drum in Modo Drum. This is also true of the snare drum, the hi-hats etc.

I haven't gone deep to determine if the toms are accurate. f not, Modo Drum has a function that allows adjustment to the way it reads MIDI tracks and I can probably make adjustments. That can be saved as a preset.

 

OK, I get that. Is there some standard for drum sound assignments like there is for sounds in a General MIDI file? That would mean that whatever drum plug-in you used, you'd get the right drum for the track. Wouldn't that be nice?

 

I've listened to samples in MODO Drum of a variety of drum loops, they sound very much like a real drummer playing a part - which is similar to Studio Drummer where they did in fact have a drummer play the parts.

In the end, if a track "feels good" that works for me.

 

The tracks are broken down in different ways, Studio Drummer offers a set of genres, then grooves in each genre and each groove has variations on the groove plus a set of "Fills" to provide options for putting an arrangement together out of MIDI clips. Modo Drum offers a set of genres (some different ones in both programs and some similar) and then it has "song sets" with loops for Intro, Verse, Chorus, Fill, Outro. Of course you can use anything for anything if it suits the purpose.

 

Clearly I'm behind the times here. I thought that a MIDI note was a MIDI note, and whatever was on the track is what got played, no more, no less. So when you select a genre and a groove, etc, it takes cues from tracks but does more (or less, or at a slightly different time) than what's on the MIDI track?

 

Or, for starters, do you not need a MIDI drum track at all? You feed the characteristics of the "drummer" to the program and it takes its timing from the project, plays what it thinks you asked for - which from your description, it does a pretty good job of interpreting your instructions - and this is what creates the MIDI track for drums, if you indeed want one.

 

Keep in mind that I don't use drums - real or virtual - in my work, so I may not really know what I'm talking about here.

 

Truly endless variations. I plan on exploring some of them and may use bits and dabs here and there if it seems they will enhance the story.

 

Don't forget to eat. Keep hydrated. Wear a mask.

[KuruPrionz]

First, an important disclosure: I know maybe about as much about MIDI as I do about why spiny anteaters lay eggs, which is more or less nothing.

 

So, my observations will be based on my limited experience in using a few select items in my possession. I'm sure our resident MIDI guru, Craig Anderton, could provide clear and simple explanations regarding everything both you and I wonder about and it's entirely possible that I may be able to understand most if not all of it to some limited degree. That said...

 

I own and use a Fishman Triple Play pickup system. It is mounted on one of my Teles. It has a hexaphonic pickup connected to a widget that transmits from the guitar to a wireless USB dongle plugged into the computer. The end result is that analog guitar string signals are converted to MIDI and can be used to play soft synth plugins on my computer. I even managed to bumble about and get a Kurzweil K2000R rack synth module to play from the Fishman, using the MIDI DIN sockets in my interface to connect.

 

Thus, I know that analog sounds (even fairly tempermental and potentially erratic ones like guitar strings) can be pretty consistently converted to MIDI tracks on a DAW. I also know that I can swap in a different soft synth plugin on that track and the pitches and timing will be identical to what I played - which may or may not be sample-correct in timing or pitch (piano soft synths will auto-correct pitch to a certain degree since many of them only play the notes on the tempered scale). I've also found this to be true when using an Akai MPK25 USB MIDI keyboard. It creates a MIDI track on the DAW that any soft synth can follow.

 

When I tried to play "drums" using Studio Drummer as my sound engine and the Fishman TP as the source, it worked. All the sounds on the kits were available by playing the guitar. As to which one went where, there was a "pattern" but I have no idea how it would correlate with an actual MIDI drum kit like a Roland or Yamaha - in other words, does hitting the snare drum on the kit trigger a snare drum sound? I do have a Roland Handsonic which has MIDI out and my Quantum interface has a DIN MIDI in port so it can be attempted at some point.

 

I don't consider myself to be drummer either but guitar IS a percussion instrument so I have some training of sorts and can usually hammer out an appropriate beat with reasonable consistency.

 

All the above to say that on further consideration, I don't know if the MIDI assign function on Modo Drum is for arranging the inputs of external devices that generate MIDI so a snare is a snare or if it is needed to arrange the MIDI outputs of Modo Drum to work with existing MIDI drum loops generated by other software drum programs. At this point, I am guessing the former since Modo Drum played well with Studio Drummer MIDI tracks and the two softwares have a time distance of about 8 years in their creation.

 

Perhaps it is capable of doing both things, I don't have an answer for that. In fact at this point I don't truly know what it does at all since I've never messed with it. I do have a manual, also one for Studio Drummer - which I have not properly explored and am not abandoning. It's possible Studio Drummer (and other earlier drum programs) have this feature too.

 

It is important to note that I don't really have an expectation here, as long as the kick and the snare could be triggered by any of the 4 larger pads on my Roland Handsonic, I would be fine with that. And I wouldn't care which keys on the Akai were kick and snare as long as it had them. A bit of masking tape near each key and labelled "B" and "S" would be good enough for me.

 

It may well be that the modules included with electronic drum kits also have MIDI assignment functions for output and drummers may be like me (it works, me will use it) or astute in setting up their own kits to work with the situation.

 

As to myself, I plan to improve on selecting clips, editing them as needed (mostly chopping to length) and creating usable drum arrangements for the songs I am recording. Beyond that I have some analog options I can record or for late night doings I would use my Korg Wavedrum. I may well end up with all analog sounds in the final product, even if some of them are electronic analog like the Wavedrum. I am not creatively bound to the classic "trap kit" by any means (I also have a great sounding NI West Africa software with lots of great sounds and clips).

 

As to MIDI tracks playing back with dynamics and micro-second timing to duplicate a real beat played by a real drummer (which I know is how Studio Drummer is configured), it works so I don't question it. A "Fatback" beat with the snare just that bit "behind" the beat, as played by so many great drummers, is easily accommodated by current MIDI standards, so is a roll with building volume that ends in an intentionally "back beat" spot. MIDI 2.0, which is pending, will undoubtedly be even better in all ways.

 

The Modo Drum loops sound like a real drummer to me, that "perfect imperfection" that fills the dance floor is happening.

 

 

Truly endless variations. I plan on exploring some of them and may use bits and dabs here and there if it seems they will enhance the story.

 

Don't forget to eat. Keep hydrated. Wear a mask.

 

I hope I've answered any of your questions, if so it was random luck that I happened to know a bit about something.

If not, we will need to consult with higher powers, or in my case, bumble about and learn from mistakes.

I will point out that you omitted - And take a shower once a week whether you need it or not".

[Mike Rivers]

Well it sounds like we have the blind and deaf leading the dumb and knock-kneed here when it comes to MIDI. I used to be pretty smart with it but that was ages ago.

 

A couple of things that I think I know:

 

A loop, by definition, is a loop. It plays a fixed sequence of notes and when it gets to the end, it repeats unless stopped. The name, of course, comes from a loop of tape. Modern miracles can, and most likely do, make subtle changes in the loop as it's playing, like maybe slow down a phrase then pick it up before the end, or shift the tuning of an instrument to make it sound like it's being played live. But in order to have a snare play at one time in one pass and a tom play in its place in another pass, you either need a very smart looping program (which MODO Drum may very well provide, or you make the loop twice as long with the substitutions in the second pass.

 

Your MIDI guitar pickup transmits a limited amount of information, but it's mostly useful information. You have the MIDI note number (this determines the instrument sound), the start and end time of the note, and the velocity that the string is struck is struck. Those are the basic instructions. I'm sure your Triple Play can send a pitch-bend message and volume control. That's all stuff that you play live, and it can be recorded on a track as MIDI data, and edited as data. But when you hit the Play button, the data tells the synth what to play, when to play it, and how to modify it (like pitch bend). And the next time you hit the Play button, you won't get any surprises - it'll play the same way it did before unless you change something.

 

MIDI 2.0 has a lot more stuff you can do as long as your MIDI source can generate the data and your sound source can interpret it correctly and do what you expect it to do.

 

What can be more complicated than that?

 

I suspect that where the power of MODO Drums lies is in how you can make subtle changes or big changes to the sounds, and program them within the MIDI sequence. You want a ten foot kick drum with a half-inch thick stainless steel shell and an elk hide head, no problem as long as you can describe those physical things in ways that the program can interpret them. Just click on the kick drum icon, then the shell material icon and the head icon. Oh, and you'll probably need a nine pound hammer (just a little too heavy) as a beater.

 

Is it time to take the turkey out of the oven yet?

[KuruPrionz]

Well it sounds like we have the blind and deaf leading the dumb and knock-kneed here when it comes to MIDI. I used to be pretty smart with it but that was ages ago.

 

A couple of things that I think I know:

 

A loop, by definition, is a loop. It plays a fixed sequence of notes and when it gets to the end, it repeats unless stopped.

 

Your MIDI guitar pickup transmits a limited amount of information, but it's mostly useful information. And the next time you hit the Play button, you won't get any surprises - it'll play the same way it did before unless you change something.

 

MIDI 2.0 has a lot more stuff you can do as long as your MIDI source can generate the data and your sound source can interpret it correctly and do what you expect it to do.

 

What can be more complicated than that?

 

I suspect that where the power of MODO Drums lies is in how you can make subtle changes or big changes to the sounds, and program them within the MIDI sequence. You want a ten foot kick drum with a half-inch thick stainless steel shell and an elk hide head, no problem as long as you can describe those physical things in ways that the program can interpret them.

 

Is it time to take the turkey out of the oven yet?

 

Condensed a bit. First sentence? "Yes", said the imbecile, "I agree."

 

When auditioning loops in drum software, the loop being auditioned will play over and over again. This allows one to play along and see if the basic "feel" of the groove in that clip is going to work for the song. It also allows one to adjust the tempo in the DAW, which changes the tempo the drum software will use to play the clip. If it feels good, then that is a good folder to dwell in and harvest variations, including fills, drops, different treatments for the same groove, etc.

 

In a DAW, a loop can be a loop if you tell it to loop. Or not. And, anything can be a loop, just clip out part of any audio or MIDI clip and set the number of repeats you would like. Or not.

 

When a MIDI file of a drum pattern is dropped into a DAW, it is only one instance and there is no information that will cause it to loop even once (Ableton Live may be different, I have no experience with it). The number of repeats is completely controllable by the operator. One can clip a repeated loop at any two points, delete the section in between the two clip points and drop something else in there. The drum software will happily play whatever it is given.

 

That's how an arrangement is assembled from loops/clips.

 

For a song I recently arranged in Studio Drummer, I found a folder containing a feel and groove that works well with the song. I started with one clip, looped it well past the length of the song. We cut a scratch vocal and guitar part to provide a sense of "location" and continuity. Sometimes a scratch part ends up being a keeper, that's a value-added bonus.

 

Then I found a snare intro fill clip, placed it in front, changed the clips on the verses to one that used a "side stick" on the snare, added various similar but different fills to the end of the chorus, and found a different but congruent beat in the same folder for the bridge/solo section. In terms of an arrangement, it sounds pretty much like the sorts of things a drummer would do to serve the song, it builds and contracts, it gets things kicked on down the highway, etc.

 

Modo Drum offers some truly clever features to bring a bit more of a random sound to an arrangement, or you could go deep and control when and where those subtle events occur.

You can choose the size of the area that the strike occurs on the drum, from a very tight area to a much larger one. You can choose with hand strikes first, left or right.

You can also set up what they call a "Round Robin", where slight variations are introduced to each strike in the arrangement - in other words it is introducing variations in how it reads the MIDI data on the fly.

 

Properly implemented, this means it could become extremely difficult to determine if a real drummer or a program is playing the part, especially when it becomes part of a mix with real instruments playing.

After adding guitars and bass, I find it difficult to say that my Studio Drummer arrangement is just a software trick. With Modo Drum used properly I'd be willing to bet that many drummers would be unable to pass the blindfold test consistently.

 

That was a big reason why I wanted it. That and the 9 different drum sets, which can all be fully customized by changing the snare, the kick, the high hats etc.

 

While it is not able to make infinite changes as you describe, you can to a degree change the diameter and depth of a drum, there are 2 or 3 different drum heads available for each side of the drum (I forget now), there are 3 different types of sticks and at least a couple of types of beaters. Also, each individual drum is tunable over a reasonable range.

 

That's pretty far out into the weeds but I doubt I'll be wishing it could do something, more like "do I want to do this or not..."

[Mike Rivers]

 

Properly implemented, this means it could become extremely difficult to determine if a real drummer or a program is playing the part, especially when it becomes part of a mix with real instruments playing.

After adding guitars and bass, I find it difficult to say that my Studio Drummer arrangement is just a software trick. With Modo Drum used properly I'd be willing to bet that many drummers would be unable to pass the blindfold test consistently.

 

"Software trick?" - HARRUMPH!!! Definitely not a trick, other than perhaps to the drummer who you didn't hire to play on the track. What you're doing - juggling pieces of longer clips according to your taste in how they fit into the song and tweaking the program to take advantage of some randomizing and "feel-izing" that the developers included.

 

You get the right drummer into the studio who really gets the song and where you're going with it, he has a good kit, you have good mics and know how to use them in your room, and the track is done in an hour and you pay the drummer $200 bucks and make sure you keep his contact info so you can bring him in again next time you have a song he can dig.

 

By working with clips and software, you're no doubt spending many times the hour to do the live recording, but you're in control of every beat and hopefully you know when you can call it "done" rather than when the drummer packs up his kit.

 

Everything we do in this business is some sort of a trick, from assembling a track from bits and pieces of recordings from here and there to putting 40 mics on the orchestra and mixing them afterward.

 

Fool 'em again, Kuru!

[Dr Mike Metlay]

 

Properly implemented, this means it could become extremely difficult to determine if a real drummer or a program is playing the part, especially when it becomes part of a mix with real instruments playing.

After adding guitars and bass, I find it difficult to say that my Studio Drummer arrangement is just a software trick. With Modo Drum used properly I'd be willing to bet that many drummers would be unable to pass the blindfold test consistently.

You get the right drummer into the studio who really gets the song and where you're going with it, he has a good kit, you have good mics and know how to use them in your room, and the track is done in an hour and you pay the drummer $200 bucks and make sure you keep his contact info so you can bring him in again next time you have a song he can dig.

 

By working with clips and software, you're no doubt spending many times the hour to do the live recording, but you're in control of every beat and hopefully you know when you can call it "done" rather than when the drummer packs up his kit.

This of course presumes that you even have a room where a drum kit will fit inside, much less be playable, much less sound good.

[KuruPrionz]

To add to the complexity and cost of doing a "real" drum track, I live in an end uint of a multi unit condominium. My neighbors are all nice and mostly quiet although the lady above me needs a new carpet attachment for her vacuum cleaner since it sounds like a lawn mower eating a chainsaw.

 

Plus, my space is not huge and doesn't sound particularly great. I go to some effort to NOT pickup a room sound when I record vocals or acoustic instruments (mostly guitars).

 

There are spaces I could rent for what would "theoretically" be reasonable prices but now I'm on the hook for tearing down most of my studio rig, moving it somewhere else, setting it up to record, tearing it down again, bringing it home and setting it up again. The $86 I spent on Modo Drum would be gone before I even see the drummer bringing his gear in.

 

Plus, recording with a real drummer costs even more and takes ALL day. And most of that day is not fun, at least it's not my idea of fun.

A friend is using a drummer who is amazing and likes to take your tracks home and record them at his place. He doesn't charge for doing it, it is something that feeds his soul. The results I've heard so far are outstanding.

He has also had the tracks for over six months and the completion date is unknown but at some theoretical point in the future.

 

I don't consider that a viable option either.

 

Last but certainly not least, the option to put on headphones and work at any time, night or day, without disturbing anybody - that just cannot be beat (hah!! pun...).

 

Reading further, yes, the MIDI track assignments are pretty universal for drum sets. Kick and snare, etc. are defined and used by different software vendors. I'm guessing (again) but it seems the purpose of the MIDI assignment function is to match the layout of an electronic drum "set" to the instruments played in the software. I'll have to hook up the Handsonic via MIDI one of these days and see how it all falls out.