Mainstage vs Gig Performer?

[analogholic]

Just found out about Gig Performer in the MS thread....

 

How do they compare, pros and cons?

 

Is GP lighter on the CPU than MS?

[zephonic]

I use GP regularly, and am very pleased with it.

 

But Mainstage is only $30 and comes with a killer synth, killer B3, very good Rhodes, and enough miscellaneous sounds to get you through most gigs; you'd only need a better acoustic piano sound to be complete. Mainstage also plays back audio files, and has a proven track record; it is the default choice.

 

Even though it was more expensive, I ponied up for GP, primarily because it allows me to create new setups much more quickly, and much more easily. It is brilliantly simple to use, yet capable of creating very complex setups.

 

There's a thread on GP here: https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2866502/1

[Markay]

Competing with MainStage is a tall order. MainStage comes with all the Logic VI's, for example the highly regarded Alchemy, AND effects. You could spend a lot of money replicating these using alternatives like Gig Performer or Bidule.

 

Gig Performer makes a big deal about using less memory than MainStage. However the claims are not substantiated and made before the release of MS 3.3 which is far lighter on resource usage.

 

Also one factor that is not mentioned in these comparisons is the difference in GUI's between Gig Performer and Bidule and that of MainStage.

 

Driving MainStage's dynamic GUI which replicates your controller will always chew up more resources than the alternatives who do not provide a similar level of detail to MainStage in Perform mode.

 

Nonetheless if you are starting out on an older machine that has limited resources then maybe Gig Performer or Bidule might be a better choice.

 

The bottom line is that you could easily spend $1,500 to $2,000 replicating the Logic VI's and Effects included in MainStage for $30.

 

In most cases that difference would be better spent on a hardware upgrade if using an older machine.

 

And keep in mind that Logic VI's only work in Logic/MainStage, it it is not case of buying MainStage and then Gig Performer or Bidule and using them in either of those.

 

 

[Ashville.Guru]

There's one thing that GP does that no other host out there does: communicate patch names via OSC. What this means is that you can have a custom touchscreen interface on a smartphone/tablet - GP provides a readymade template for Lemur.

 

Of course, this is useful only if you'd like to play with the laptop lid closed, out of sight - YMMV. For those of us who prefer this approach, this is the last piece of the puzzle that makes the laptop experience identical to a hardware-only rig.

 

- Guru

[zephonic]

For those of us who prefer this approach, this is the last piece of the puzzle that makes the laptop experience identical to a hardware-only rig.

 

That is exactly how I use it, albeit minus the Lemur/TouchOSC/iPad.

 

I load up a concert, and forget about the computer. I have mapped the Registration buttons on the J-50 to the programs for instant changes, and it pretty much feels and works like hardware. In fact, guys in one band thought I was actually playing the Jupiter locally.

 

Added benefit is that with the display off, you save a lot of battery life. I can comfortably run a 4-hour gig on my MBP and still have ~30% left.

 

[Reezekeys]

Yes and you can put the laptop anywhere you want as long as the USB cable from the keyboard can reach. And I can't imagine having to deal with a trackpad & look at a screen while on a gig. I want my controls on my keyboard, in front of me!

[Markay]

The ability to map host and VI functionality to a controller is a common attribute of all hosts.

 

I look at the MainStage screen to see my set list. I am constantly amazed at the number of people here who are comfortable checking a set list on a tablet screen or on a piece of paper, but would never contemplate glancing at a laptop screen for the same information.

 

More power to those who prefer to bring multiple screens to do the job of one. I prefer the simpler solution.

[marczellm]

GP runs on Windows.

[analogholic]

Thanks guys for your replies!

 

Didn't even know that GP was $149 ?!??

Guess I have to update MS and see what I can do with it.

 

 

[analogholic]

For those of us who prefer this approach, this is the last piece of the puzzle that makes the laptop experience identical to a hardware-only rig.

 

That is exactly how I use it, albeit minus the Lemur/TouchOSC/iPad.

 

I load up a concert, and forget about the computer. I have mapped the Registration buttons on the J-50 to the programs for instant changes, and it pretty much feels and works like hardware. In fact, guys in one band thought I was actually playing the Jupiter locally.

 

 

Yes, this is what I want to do to...just boot the thing and forget about it.

I have a Mac Mini quad core i7 with 16 GB Ram.

So I don't even have a display (apart from maybe iPhone and/or iPad)

 

Plan is to gig with Nord Stage 3 and the MAC for a really light rig.

Pianos, organs and some synth stuff from the Nord and the rest

from the MAC

[zephonic]

For $30 you can't go wrong with MainStage.

 

As for a display, if you plan to bring a MacMini to the stage, you may want to look into Duet Display, which turns your iPad/iPhone into a touch display for your Mac:

 

https://www.duetdisplay.com/

 

 

If MS turns out to be restrictive, you can always get GigPerformer later. For me, the purchase made sense as I always struggled a little with MS, where GP just enables me to do things my way, easily and quickly.

[Joe Muscara]

OP might want to check out the thread where Gig Performer was discussed a lot, and includes posts from the developer.

[AnotherScott]

not sure how it compares to duet, but idisplay is free at the moment...

 

http://appshopper.com/productivity/idisplay

[zephonic]

OP might want to check out the thread where Gig Performer was discussed a lot, and includes posts from the developer.

 

Already linked to that thread in post #2 ^^^

 

 

not sure how it compares to duet, but idisplay is free at the moment...

 

http://appshopper.com/productivity/idisplay

 

That's pretty cool!

[analogholic]

Thanks everyone for your input!

 

I have Duet Display already....wasn't too happy with it.

But maybe it got better with updates...

 

Will definitely check out iDisplay!!!

[Joe Muscara]

OP might want to check out the thread where Gig Performer was discussed a lot, and includes posts from the developer.

 

Already linked to that thread in post #2 ^^^

oops.

[Nathanael_I]

I've got both. I'm using GP right now. It is lighter on the CPU for sure. It is fast and easy to route. The built in stuff in Mainstage is quite capable. Alchemy is excellent, as is the physical modeling synth (Structure? I think).

 

If you already own lots of other stuff, though, the cost of GP is not that big a deal. What I will say is that heavy footprint VST's are easier in GP than Mainstage. I don't want dropouts, but aside from that, I'll happily bury the CPU - it is what it is there for. I think that's one of the wonderful things about playing a laptop: I can decide how much sound quality I want. GP gives me more of that to play with.

[Ashville.Guru]

not sure how it compares to duet, but idisplay is free at the moment...

I've tried the 'mini touchscreen' route, and it didn't work for me. Fonts and buttons that are designed for a laptop screen aren't quite ideal for a tinier screen. It's no joy squinting at tiny numbers and aiming at tiny controls in the middle of a performance.

 

Lemur/TouchOSC let me customize everything I need to see to the small screen - and to my fingers. Fonts as big as I want, controls as convenient as I like. Helpful indicators like transpose, patch names, CPU, battery level, split points, layers, as big and as bright as I want. And best of all, nothing unwanted cluttering up the screen. Again, YMMV!

 

- Guru

[zephonic]

Lemur/TouchOSC let me customize everything I need to see to the small screen - and to my fingers. Fonts as big as I want, controls as convenient as I like. Helpful indicators like transpose, patch names, CPU, battery level, split points, layers, as big and as bright as I want. And best of all, nothing unwanted cluttering up the screen. Again, YMMV!

 

Do you use Lemur or Touch OSC? Do you use it in conjunction with GP?

 

I've been looking at Touch OSC, as it seems to be actively updated and it's cheaper, but the network thing seems impractical for live use; how about lag/latency?

 

 

 

What I will say is that heavy footprint VST's are easier in GP than Mainstage.

 

I was told by a Spectrasonics guy (unofficially, to be sure) that both Mainstage and Omnisphere can be real CPU and RAM hogs, and together they can bring a computer to its knees fairly easily.

 

I tried to compare, and Omnisphere seems to run a little more relaxed in GP, but that could well be expectation bias.

 

[Lee T]

On some patches in GP I'm running three instances of Omnisphere and I've not had any issues. Running at 96 samples audio buffer which is fine for live work.

[Ashville.Guru]

Do you use Lemur or Touch OSC?

I've used both, quite extensively. Lemur is what TouchOSC wants to be when it grows up. Does everything that TouchOSC does, plus three additional features:

 

1. A scripting engine -unlimited MIDI flexibility.

2. HTML5 canvas objects - so you can create your own rich interface. For example, if you want Mainstage-style 3-D keyboard layout to visualize splits and layers, you could do that.

3. A physics engine - cool mod source

 

And is much more polished. I'm really glad I made the switch from TouchOSC.

 

Do you use it in conjunction with GP?

Not yet, but GP will be my next purchase. I haven't made the switch from Forte because I'm baulking at the amount of re-programming I'll have to do... .

 

but the network thing seems impractical for live use

If you set it up right, then everything is instant on stage. Scripting/automation is your friend! My rule is: no wifi on stage, connection is via USB. Lemur communicates in two ways - MIDI and OSC. MIDI is immediately available with USB. OSC requires the laptop and Lemur to be on the same network; but USB tethering takes care of that.

 

Bottomline, I just hook up the USB, one tap and it's ready to go. Stable as a rock.

 

how about lag/latency?

Zero.

 

- Guru

[AnotherScott]

not sure how it compares to duet, but idisplay is free at the moment...

I've tried the 'mini touchscreen' route, and it didn't work for me. Fonts and buttons that are designed for a laptop screen aren't quite ideal for a tinier screen. It's no joy squinting at tiny numbers and aiming at tiny controls in the middle of a performance.

An iPad screen can be as big or bigger than some laptop screens. A Mac Mini with an iPad Pro 12.9" would provide a bigger screen than an 11" Macbook Air (my current main machine, as it happens).

[Ashville.Guru]

An iPad screen can be as big or bigger than some laptop screens.

Of course. But for me, having a laptop-size screen would defeat the purpose. I suspect this would be true for many others as well.

 

- Guru

[Reezekeys]

I briefly tried one of these screen-sharing softwares a while ago, it was completely unworkable on my iPhone screen which is no surprise. But even on an iPad, aren't you still manipulating a mouse pointer with your finger? And how is the lag now? There was plenty when I tried it but that might have been the particular sw I was using.

[AnotherScott]

An iPad screen can be as big or bigger than some laptop screens.

Of course. But for me, having a laptop-size screen would defeat the purpose. I suspect this would be true for many others as well.

Every size screen is better for some things than others. From the same Mac Mini, you could connect whatever size screen(s) you prefer for the tasks at hand. If you're only meaning to point out that you prefer a traditional laptop over a Mini+iPad, that's fine, there are presumably people who prefer each approach, but the OP already owns the Mac Mini, so it would seem to be reasonable to at least give it a go...

 

even on an iPad, aren't you still manipulating a mouse pointer with your finger? And how is the lag now?

If you're using an iPad as a screen for a Mac Mini, you can manipulate the pointer with your finger on the screen OR traditionally with a mouse plugged into the Mac (or both). I'll leave it to others to comment on how well it works... my experience with screen sharing was positive, but minimal.

 

 

[paulnajar]

Guys,

 

It appears that two different concepts are getting muddled here.

 

we all know what driving MS or GP from a laptop on stage is like right. The laptop screen displays the software and the laptop contorls sometimes get used to perform certain functions.

 

OTOH, if you have a Mac mini because it's a cheaper, still powerful alternative and because you might dislike the look of a laptop on stage, when adding a touch screen to this system you could simply duplicate the functionality of a laptop by displaying MS or GP on the screen.

 

But I'll risk being wrong here by saying that the majority of users using a headless system don't want to ever see our OS X screen when performing. Instead we want our host to provide enough relevant feedback to out touchscreen so we know where our host is at but not actually see our host. This is where Lemur, touch OSC and even some rare midi keyboard controllers (Nektar Panorama, Novation SL MK2) come in. That's a big operational difference between the two approaches that I reckon is getting muddled up in this thread by some.

 

This second approach ideally provides a more hardware keyboard like experience.

 

Kind regards

 

 

 

[zephonic]

 

but the network thing seems impractical for live use

If you set it up right, then everything is instant on stage. Scripting/automation is your friend! My rule is: no wifi on stage, connection is via USB. Lemur communicates in two ways - MIDI and OSC. MIDI is immediately available with USB. OSC requires the laptop and Lemur to be on the same network; but USB tethering takes care of that.

 

Bottomline, I just hook up the USB, one tap and it's ready to go. Stable as a rock.

 

how about lag/latency?

Zero.

 

 

If you say connection via USB, you mean the Lightning cable directly into the computer?

[Lee T]

Guys,

 

This is where Lemur, touch OSC and even some rare midi keyboard controllers (Nektar Panorama, Novation SL MK2) come in. That's a big operational difference between the two approaches that I reckon is getting muddled up in this thread by some.

 

This second approach ideally provides a more hardware keyboard like experience.

 

Kind regards

 

 

 

That is my approach. SL MkII controlling GP, with up and down mapped to switches on the Novation. Never touch the MacBook, except to load up the next set.

 

[Ashville.Guru]

If you say connection via USB, you mean the Lightning cable directly into the computer?

Directly into the computer, yes - although I use Android, so no Lightning involved. I understand it's the same thing, just called Personal Hotspot via USB in iOS.

 

But I'll risk being wrong here by saying that the majority of users using a headless system don't want to ever see our OS X screen when performing. Instead we want our host to provide enough relevant feedback to out touchscreen so we know where our host is at but not actually see our host. This is where Lemur, touch OSC and even some rare midi keyboard controllers (Nektar Panorama, Novation SL MK2) come in. That's a big operational difference between the two approaches that I reckon is getting muddled up in this thread by some.

 

This second approach ideally provides a more hardware keyboard like experience.

Very well articulated. +1.

 

- Guru

[Markay]

Well if the majority here want to pursue the pretence that their midi controller is providing the sounds and their performance would be somehow be diminished if a laptop were to be obvious on stage then yes, hiding your 'laptop' will to some extent preserve this illusion.

 

Who knew one day you would have not only be an expert keyboard player but to preserve the hardware illusion learn how to script Lemur, set up a local network, and buy a tablet, to be kept discretely flat out of sight, before you could appear on stage

 

I don't understand this desire to pretend we are playing hardware. I have had some, including music teachers, come and sit behind me, where that is possible in the low rent gigs we play, to watch what happens on screen in MainStage as we move through a set.

 

I take it as a compliment that I might be introducing these expert players, far better than me, to a new, vastly more flexible option than hardware boards.

 

I play with a controller and laptop and my audience and bandmates know it. If they don't like that 'image', cool get a hardware only guy, or a dude who loves scripting and being a local wireless network expert.

 

When the under 30's refuse to see a headline DJ who generates everything from a laptop I may rethink my approach.