Werewolf by Night Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 So, GPF members, one and all- I'd like to know your thoughts, and your input, on the following: __ Want to Play Jazz Guitar? Start with These Five Songs BY MATT WARNOCK Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d halfnote Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 First thoughts... - The premise is good, tunes & perfs that define some specific skills but "airbody" gonna have they own list so I'm not certain that these define the best examples of either. That will take a bit more thought to consider, although each player represented is a master & it's great to see Ted Greene in there (alternate choice: Joe Pass ?). -Several of the tunes illustrate the basic original premise of jazz as a method or approach to playing popular songs, not what it sometimes became later: a sometimes restricted type of music involving deliberately complicated devices (spell it with me: f-u-s-i-o-n ). As I listened to the Grant Green track it occurred to me that there are 2 things one can do with these: copy what's played & explore the reasons for the note / rhythm choices or use them as tools for your own improvs, which might be better done with recs that don't already have such specific parts laid in. That seems to make the 1st use more worthwhile. d=halfnote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitefang Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 That friend of mine who was classically trained and now plays jazz went about his transformation much like that. Played other's music over so much as to know much of it by heart and dissected it all to figure out what each was doing and how HE could apply his own approach to it. Well, worked for HIM. Whitefang (incidentally, he never cared for Grant Green that much) I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larryz Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 I like playing and singing Summertime as I like songs with lyrics like Sunny that I can relate to. But, of the 5 combos I liked Pat Metheny's Cantaloupe workout the best. Much too fast for me to learn from and little or no melody lines to make it recognizable...but I like what he does with just a trio. Interesting guitar setup with humbuckers on a SG like solid body with an added bout to handle a battery of switches. Looks like he was playing on the bridge pup if the 3way is working. Most jazzers prefer the neck pickup but he makes it sound very good! I liked seeing that Tele Ted Greene is using in the line up too! Can't say whether or not these 5 songs would be the best to start with but there is no reason not to [pick] on one of them... Take care, Larryz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitefang Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 WHAAAA...? Metheny playing JAZZ on a SOLID BODY??? Boy, is HE in for it in HERE! Whitefang I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred_C Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Want to play Jazz guitar? Find a good teacher and take lessons. There is so much to learn. It's a whole different way of thinking about the left hand. It's technically challenging. THAT'S WHAT MAKES IT FUN!!! I have stated in previous posts, I get a wonderful feeling of accomplishment when I finally get a new Chord Melody solo "under my fingers". I am totally addicted to Chord Melody style. It makes me very happy when my guitar and I play beautiful music together. If you play cool, you are cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larryz Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 +1 Brother Fred, Jazz is a lifelong study and a good teacher in the type of jazz that one is interested in would really be an absolute necessity. It's a very high level of study. Chord melody would be wonderful as it relates to something that we are familiar with, as opposed to endless noodling (which can also be fun depending on the sytle!) and +1 on making beautiful music together with the guitars that we love! That's the whole idea! Take care, Larryz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartholomew Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 From that list I've done Summertime, Sunny & Autumn Leaves for many years but am more into Blues and Soft-Rock than outright jazz. Took a few lessons from a jazz standards teacher after I had been playing a few years. The guy could make up chords as he played - it was the most amazing thing I ever saw, he was best player in town back then. We pretty much learnt Rock & Roll doing high school dances and clubs. I use 9th, 13th and sometimes inside jazz voicings or whatever in Blues standards. I learnt not to blow my brains out on every solo and also how to phrase from the lessons. Most players I see in my area don't know what a rest is and play through everything --- poor training, wanker-city. I never had speed so had to develop good taste. Been round the block but am not over the hill... http://www.bandmix.ca/jamrocker/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajm558 Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 I feel I need to vouch for this Warnock program. Disclosure, he has a Facebook page that doubles as a society much like this forum does for many of us. I am on that Facebook page. I agree that finding a good jazz guitar instructor is the best practice to learn jazz guitar. But I think the material Matt is posting makes Jazz more accessible to players who haven't been playing for long, haven't ever played jazz, or people who may be limited in what kind of guitar instruction they have access to. There is a market for this. I stumbled upon the Warnock material a few months ago and have been using it to learn some new riffs and understand how many of the scales I have been learning were used to construct melodies and solos. It has been eye opening. While personal instruction is best, I have found the Warnock material to be fairly good for the market it is intended for. Just my 2¢. ajm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d halfnote Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 An addition to my post above.... This is a caveat [sorry, Caev ] that applies to all novice learning but applies any time ppl focus on formulaic training: the matching of modes & scales to keys or tonality needs to be, I think, amended with the idea that the material should also be tied to melodic & harmonic themes. Modes, etc., are only ever a starting point for exploration not the end. Further, the value of "outside" notes is an inherent part of jazz. d=halfnote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitefang Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Yeah. Charlie parker used to wander several feet in either direction from the main path. Figuratively speaking.Whitefang I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skipclone 1 Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Ya, back in the day I got caught up on that-wandered outside, only to discover I forgot my house keys Fortunately there was a Berklee cat in the band-got us back to the head. He still gave me a `yeah!` Same old surprises, brand new cliches- Skipsounds on Soundclick: www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandid=602491 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred_C Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Ya, back in the day I got caught up on that-wandered outside, only to discover I forgot my house keys This is why I will not buy a guitar without some sort of position markers on the fretboard. I need to know precisely where I am. I used to tell students, "where you are now is not as important as where you need to be next". If you play cool, you are cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winston Psmith Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Fred C., I've been looking at a beautiful Godin fretless Nylon-string A/E, with an eye to playing some of Jobim's music, and some other Jazz tunes. Would you think that a poor choice of instrument for my purpose? The Guitar in question plays beautifully, as well, though the naked neck takes some getting used to . . . "Monsters are real, and Ghosts are real too. They live inside us, and sometimes, they win." Stephen King http://www.novparolo.com https://thewinstonpsmithproject.bandcamp.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred_C Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Fred C., I've been looking at a beautiful Godin fretless Nylon-string A/E, with an eye to playing some of Jobim's music, and some other Jazz tunes. Would you think that a poor choice of instrument for my purpose? The Guitar in question plays beautifully, as well, though the naked neck takes some getting used to . . . Winston, I'm afraid I can't be of much help, due to the fact that I have no background whatsoever in nylon stringed instruments. I can discuss archtops with confidence, but have little or no experience with "classical guitars". It sees to me that most if not all of those Brazilian cats who play Bossa Nova are playing acoustic nylon strung classical designs and a classical guitar would suit the genre perfectly. I play a few of Jobim's tunes fingerstyle (PIMA) on an electric, hollow body archtop and they sound great. In addition, the music is great fun to play. I regret that I can't be of more help. If you like the playability and tone of the Godin, then it's a great choice. For me, it's all about playability and tone. Good luck! If you play cool, you are cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larryz Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 A fretless nylon is worse than having no fret markers LOL! Some have the frets faked on the board so you know where you are at and some are plain and leave it to your ears to figure out where you are. I love the sound of my nylon acoustics which have no fret markers (but still have frets). I really don't need them as the top of the neck has the little white dots that let me know where I'm at. I can't imagine playing without frets though LOL! I know everyone else can that plays fretless (on guitars, bass, violins, cellos, etc.). I probably would get lost with my tin ear LOL! I know Brother Fred and Brother Winston will have no trouble making any instrument they select sound great! Take care, Larryz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocPate Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 I just have one simple question: Do you use augmented and diminished chords? Deep Purple for example. Is there a secret you used to untangle your fingers? Or do you take them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winston Psmith Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Fred C. and Larryz - thank you both for your kind, and forthright replies. Have to admit, getting the fretless is diving into the deep end of the pool, so to speak. I have some experience with various Nylon-string Guitars, including some narrow-neck, cutaway A/E models designed for Jazz & Bossa Nova. A while back, I was tempted by a used Gianinni Craviola, but the previous owed had been too hard on it. Nothing exactly broken, but still, slightly uglified . . . The Godin also has a 13-pin jack, for Synth Access, as Godin terms it: in other words, it will also plug directly into my Roland Guitar Synths. I love the idea of playing Violin/Cello sounds, without frets, among other indulgences. Thanks again. If I decide to go for it, I'll certainly let everyone here know. "Monsters are real, and Ghosts are real too. They live inside us, and sometimes, they win." Stephen King http://www.novparolo.com https://thewinstonpsmithproject.bandcamp.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larryz Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 @ Doc, I rarely use augmented chords and then I use them mostly on an intro. I do use diminished chords for turn-arounds or for a passing chord (and usually with a little bass run vibe to it using the 5th or 6th string... @ Bro Winston, Take care, Larryz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred_C Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Yes to both. It should be noted that there are 4 "chord types" (Major, minor, diminished and Augmented). Every guitar chord you can imagine (and some you can't) will belong to one of these 4 types. As Brother Larry mentioned, the diminished 7th chord is great for linking chords together and will create some nice "tension/release phrases. The Augmented chord and its powerful extensions (Aug7 and aug9th also create nice tension. I like it as the V chord in a I-vi7-IV-V or I,vi7,ii7, V7 progression. If you play cool, you are cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocPate Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Nice Fred and Larry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winston Psmith Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 @Docpate - Sorry to be late on this reply. There is a LOT of material online regarding Pat Martino's approach to Diminished and Augmented chords. Might be the best avenue for more research. "Monsters are real, and Ghosts are real too. They live inside us, and sometimes, they win." Stephen King http://www.novparolo.com https://thewinstonpsmithproject.bandcamp.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d halfnote Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Not to knock anyone needing fret markers, since I, too, look at the neck as reference but there is a step for us all in terms of simply knowing where our ears are. How ya think Ray C or Stevie W knew where the notes are ? Just , y'know, sayin'. d=halfnote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d halfnote Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 BTW, Caev, WHAT ARE YER THOUGHTS ? d=halfnote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiral_light Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 My 2c from someone who has been trying desperately to learn jazz: listen, listen, listen to jazz. Absorb & immerse. Think about it, most of us could hum/recite a lot of rock songs before we picked up an actual guitar. The trick is immersion in my opinion, I listen to more jazz than I did before but my main style of music that I enjoy is not jazz therefore it doesn't flow naturally. I need more time with it. Saying that, I do wish I had heard (Miles Davis) In A Silent Way when I was in my formative years, musically things might have turned out a bit different. aka Spiral Light from a past life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiral_light Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Just for sh@tz n giggles, on the topic of jazz. Bryan Ferry released an album of trad jazz versions of Roxy Music/solo material. Must say I was very impressed with the arrangements. Being a big fan of their first album the version of Do the Strand came out quite well (off topic, the title track kind of out dos Hawkwind at their own game, then again RM had Brian Eno). aka Spiral Light from a past life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred_C Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 My 2c from someone who has been trying desperately to learn jazz: listen, listen, listen to jazz. Absorb & immerse. The...the trick is immersion in my opinion +1 on immersion. Jazz comprises 90-95% of my listening. If you play cool, you are cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d halfnote Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 FWIW, to me jazz is really more an attitude than style or genre. An exploratory tweaking of things more than types of licks or lines. d=halfnote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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