Criteria for each style of music and/or application

[J. Dan]

I hope I can communicate effectively what I'm getting at with this because I think it's very interesting and potentially helpful for a forum such as this.

 

First, when somebody asks a question on here, I believe the most effective responses fully take into account the OP's situation. I tend to think of this along two distinct axes:

 

1) Style of Music - Jazz and Pop will have very different requirements. Of course many styles cross the spectrum in between. This will determine what sounds are most important, how important action is, whether or not somebody even cares about things like a sequencer or arpeggiator, etc.

 

2) Venue - by this I mean studio, live, both, home, etc. Do you have to transport it? Do you need things like a setlist feature? How's the sound quality?

 

Of course there are other considerations like budget, ease of use, etc. But it seems to me that where people tend to not see eye to eye on here is when they come from 2 different camps and don't recognize the different needs and simply apply their experience across the board. I think for the most part, the folks on here do an excellent job, but sometimes when things go astray, it's because the OP doesn't provide detail and the warring factions get out of hand before the OP comes back to clarify. I'm no saint, but I do always try to make it a habit to ask qualifying questions before giving a suggestion.

 

 

 

 

So here's what I had in mind for this discussion.... How would YOU differentiate needs, in terms of sort of categorizing differences in feature rankings based on HOWEVER you might differentiate - be it music style, application, etc. Does it match my brief summary or would you look at it differently?

 

Part of this is me wanting to understand those who value certain things differently than me. I THINK I understand at least some of those by group and feature, but could be wrong. Understanding more is always better, right?

 

I'll give an example: I love my Kronos for what I do. I would never recommend it to the guy who wants the BEST AP, or the guy who wants the BEST clonewheel, or the guy who wants the BEST VA, or the guy who wants the BEST sequencer. In those cases I would withhold my opinion because I don't know what the best is in each of those categories - I can guess based on what everybody on here says, but I don't have first hand knowledge. If somebody asking seemed, like me, to need a pretty good version of ALL of those as well as things like a slick interface and setlist mode, I'd certainly recommend the Kronos - because in that case I would feel that person's needs were filled based on my experience.

[ElmerJFudd]

I guess if the forum software allowed it, people could check off boxes at the start of a new thread before posting. (Ha ha, people could also do a google search of the forum before posting, that's been brought up a thousand time - the extent of obnoxiousness, although we all admit it's good advice.) Anyway - yeah, sure, people could copy paste some shit to the top or bottom of their thread. Or include it in their signature?

 

This question falls into:

Classical, Jazz, Rock, Pop, Reggae, Ska, etc.

 

I'm mainly play:

Piano, Organ, Analog Synths, Digital Synths, Guitar, Vocal, Woodwind, etc.

 

I dunno, maybe that's just a pain in the ass and we just continue to figure out what the poster needs as they go like we've been doing.

 

 

 

 

[timwat]

Well, we have our fair share of folks here who are often concerned with trumpeting their prior purchases as the best solution to everything. Some of that is driven by you only known what you know, not what you have no experience with.

 

We also have folks with very-developed opinions about what is right and what is wrong, and dammit someone on the internet is in error and I MUST CORRECT THEM. Thankfully that's not as frequent here.

 

Yes, we could go the check box route - but that starts to snuggle up dangerously close to automated customer service 800 numbers - "Please press "1" if you're asking about digital pianos"...

 

Personally, I prefer hearing people in their own words, even if it can be a little unwieldy and have unintended results from time to time.

 

Otherwise we'd have never arrived at the chicken foot.

 

 

[J. Dan]

Tim, the chickenfoot reference is awesome

 

I promise I'm not trying to divide here.

 

I think at our heart we all understand the differences but don't always ask the questions. My biggest point, I suppose, is what should be the questions?

[ElmerJFudd]

Well... the common ones are - what is your budget? Cause I'll darned if there ain't an awful lot of $ between a Yamaha P45 and a Nord Stage 2 EX.

 

Will you be carrying this sh*t by yourself? lol

 

Are you running this through a Behringer KT108, Roland KC-150? In which case, you may as well just get the P45.

[CEB]

Who caries something doesn't really mean anything if you have the right wheels. I carry my own stuff and I will bring a 300 pound organ if the gig is right. And the stage amp really is irrelevant. The keyboard player in my country band plays a ES7 over a RD800 and plays through a Roland KC. He is an old pro and a killer player and it will sound great with the Roland mixing his stage send.

[ElmerJFudd]

Doesn't work for some gigs, CEB. And it's not a laziness or gym or age thing. There's just gigs where it's not reasonable to drag around a pair of 50lbs stage pianos - this would include gigs with room shifts 3 times with minutes between (ie. ceremony to cocktail to bandstand). City gigs with public transportation and/or some blocks on foot. And of course guys that make the economic choice of 4 cylinder fwd sedan or hatchback and their rig needs to fit in their transportation. So, there's lots of reasons why size & weight come into play - perfect dolly or otherwise. YMMV

[Tusker]

Great post Dan. To me the questions posed to an OP can qualify the responder, but also focus the conversation. Each situation is different but the following six themes would appear to arise most often:

 

- Genre

- Budget

- Live, studio or home/practice use

- Type of venue/crowd as well as frequency of gigs

- Prior experience or learning curve with tech, synthesis, arranging etc.

- Technique (B3 based, Piano based, etc)

 

[cphollis]

OK, one data point among many?

 

Played with my Grateful Dead cover band this evening in a microbrewery here in Vero Beach. It ain't the big time, but we drew a crowd and the mgmt was very happy with us.

 

To JerryA's criteria

 

-- Genre: it's GD. That's OK, a lot of material to choose from.

-- Budget. Well, sort of unlimited. Lucky me.

-- Live. It's all about delivering that face-melting experience.

-- Venue? Small microbreweries seems to be the thing here. Two or three times a month. I have enough equipment to handle most any venue.

-- Experience? Not shabby. Not a musical director, but know the basics.

-- Technique? Mostly a killer AP player. Getting pretty destructive on B3 plus some synth. I can melt a few faces if needed

 

To the OPs post.

 

Number #1 on my list is The Sound. Whatever I play should be distinctive and memorable. Lots of time and money behind that premise. If I can't deliver The Sound, I either work on technique, or start buying stuff.

 

Thankfully, where I am now, I have killer equipment (boards and amplification) so I tend to spend my time at getting better at what I do. It's all on how I use the tools vs. the tools themselves.

 

Basically, it's all on me now

 

I can tell you this: I spend more of my time figuring out amplification, both mine and the band -- then any other topic.

 

I keep wishing for the magic sound guy, but until then, it's me.

[BbAltered]

I suggest it is the job of the one posting the question to make the different factors known - Ex: "I want a keyboard with great B3 sounds, for mostly studio work and some occasional gigs. And it should cost < $1000."

 

If the question is simply "what keyboard has best B3 sounds", everybody chimes in with what they know about the keyboards they have played. This may or may not be helpful for the questioner. The questioner may then refine their question(s) to get the info s/he seeks.

 

So sure, it makes more sense to ask the more refined questions first. I also suggest that some who seek info here on the forum may not know what those more refined and defined questions are initially, and only figure it out after reading the back and forth of the forum.

 

 

[J. Dan]

I suggest it is the job of the one posting the question to make the different factors known - Ex: "I want a keyboard with great B3 sounds, for mostly studio work and some occasional gigs. And it should cost < $1000."

 

If the question is simply "what keyboard has best B3 sounds", everybody chimes in with what they know about the keyboards they have played. This may or may not be helpful for the questioner. The questioner may then refine their question(s) to get the info s/he seeks.

 

So sure, it makes more sense to ask the more refined questions first. I also suggest that some who seek info here on the forum may not know what those more refined and defined questions are initially, and only figure it out after reading the back and forth of the forum.

 

 

I agree whole heartedly, but like the rest of us, I think it's probably easy to NOT think outside of your own experience and therefore NOT clarify based on where some of the responders may be coming from. I would hope that from this discussion, it may ALSO influence those asking questions to clarify their personal needs.

[CEB]

Yes. Everybody has their own frame of reference.

 

I play 90-110 gigs a year. I've been gigging about 40 years at all levels. I was a pro until age 27. But the guys that use public transportation to gig blow my mind. I don't even see how that is possible for a keyboardist. I don't have the frame of reference to understand mega metropolitan life. Here if you can't provide for your own transportation no one will work with you.

[Tusker]

I would hope that from this discussion, it may ALSO influence those asking questions to clarify their personal needs.

 

Well said.

 

The hardest question to ask (to me) is .... so how much knowledge do you have in XYZ area? It seems rude, and yet there are many capable solutions we could suggest that are beyond the skill of a relative newbie. It's kinder to ask I think.

[BbAltered]

I agree whole heartedly, but like the rest of us, I think it's probably easy to NOT think outside of your own experience and therefore NOT clarify based on where some of the responders may be coming from. I would hope that from this discussion, it may ALSO influence those asking questions to clarify their personal needs.

 

Yes, my initial response is always based on my own experience, and yes, it takes me more effort to try and put myself into the mind of the person asking the question.

 

IMO, asking the right question is critical to getting useful information.

[Tusker]

But the guys that use public transportation to gig blow my mind. I don't even see how that is possible for a keyboardist. I don't have the frame of reference to understand mega metropolitan life.

 

True for me. A jazz pianist drove up two hours from NYC to buy a compact Barbetta Sona keyboard amp several years ago when I was ready trade up to powered speakers. He knew what he was doing. He had an Acoustic Image Corus already, and he knew how much more he could haul in the subway for some of his LHB gigs. He had a repair guy to work on it if need be. He knew the history of the Barbetta company. He pulled up a tight B3 style LHB programmed on his synth and tested the heck out of my amp before pronouncing it perfect for his needs.

 

Metropolitan solution for a very metropolitan guy.

[roygBiv]

Another comment for size/weight -

 

Here in Portland a LOT of the (previously) more affordable homes in the city are 100+ years old.

 

That means they are small, wooden, with small rooms. Which then means most bands practice in the basements, and to access these basements you typically have steep, very narrow, winding stairs.

 

We're talking stairs that are hardly much better than stairs into a cellar, really. They are about 3 ft wide, go about 5-6 feet, then turn, sometimes turn again, etc.

 

Thus, a LOT of my equipment purchases are driven by "what can I easily get up and down the stairs by myself".

 

Seriously - I used to be a fairly strong guy, but now in my 50's, those stairs with those turns, etc, is just a back-injury waiting to happen if you are not careful.

[ElmerJFudd]

Same can be said for cruise ship gigs, especially the party boats just for the night. Load in/off is brutal and time consuming with bulky gear.