Best computer hardware for minimal latency ?

[Bansaw]

I know there are strong opinions on MAC vs PC, but lets say for the sake of argument I'm opting for a PC setup.

What should I be looking for in terms of hardware that gives me minimum latency and maximum performance.

As I'm at home and don't perform anywhere with my kit, I am assuming desktop gives me more bang for the buck compared to laptop(?)

 

Here's my thinking so far:

A Dell desktop Quad core i7 processor

A decent graphics card

1 TB internal SSD

16GB RAM

Now, for the sound card, interface, I am not sure

 

Appreciate any input...

 

 

[ElmerJFudd]

i7 is fine, onboard HD4000 graphics are fine, you don't need or even want a heavy duty graphics card for DAW work.

The lowest latency audio you are going to get on a stock PC like a Dell is still via the PCI or PCIe bus.

 

Check out the RME HDSP9632

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/HDSP9632

 

It's overkill i/o wise probably. But it depends how you plan to use the rig. Is it for DAW work? Virtual instruments? Professional work? Hobby?

 

You can go USB, and a lot of the drivers are decent these days, but if you are talking about really low latency you go PCI/PCIe or Thunderbolt. Maybe USB3, but I am not up to date on what interfaces are actually taking advantage of USB3.

 

 

[hardware]

Definitely RME.

XITE-1 DSP Rack if you want a stage full of hardware in a rack.

 

You'll definitely want to tweak the OS since Dell has OEM add ons not suitable for real time work.

[Bansaw]

Thanks -- its for virtual instruments. I can play the guitar etc but this is mainly for ethnic instrument and symphonic VSTs.

[hardware]

Which Symphonic VSTs...?

I say this because Kontakt is a walk in the park.

 

For PLAY the M.2 storage devices will really help out with load times and playback of instruments.

 

 

[Bansaw]

MOTU, although I do fancy the EastWest now that they offer a monthly subscr'

[Rou]

I read a while back (can't recall the site as of this writing) that when using a PCI audio interface card, a good motherboard for DAW work should have a BIOS option to set the IRQ # for one of its PCI slot to an IRQ with a lower number if not dedicate it to a fixed lower IRQ # so that windows will prioritize the device's operations (installed on this particular PCI slot) over other operations?

 

Also, there was a discussion back in a tech site(can't recall if it was in Anandtech or Tomshardware) when Intel's motherboard chipsets had been revised so as the PCI legacy bus (not to be confused with the newer PCIe x1/x4/x16) no longer has direct interconnectivity(?) with the main chipset/processor and handling of its bus operations has been off-loaded to a 3rd party chipset (supposedly installed on the Intel-based motherboard as well) that handle these legacy devices' interconnection/bus duties? The consequence is that those who used PCI audio interface cards (again not to be confused with the newer PCIe versions) with some of the newer Intel chipsets-based motherboards is that for DAW users, they couldn't dedicate a PCI slot to a specific lower IRQ # and there would be some effect on the latency(?)

 

Or is the RME Hammerfall HDSP 9632 able to bypass the IRQ # priority listing of Windows OS and able to secure for itself a dedicated IRQ # for audio use (probably based on better drivers)?

 

 

[Kawai James]

Bansaw, the laptop listed in your signature already looks pretty powerful to me. May I ask what is your motivation for purchasing a new setup?

 

Also, I agree with Elmer that a discreet graphics card is unnecessary unless you also work with 3D graphics or wish to play games.

 

Cheers,

James

x

[Bansaw]

Bansaw, the laptop listed in your signature already looks pretty powerful to me. May I ask what is your motivation for purchasing a new setup?

 

 

James

x

I think my USB audio interface is poor. I cannot add more than one or two VST tracks without serious dropout. In fact my old laptop when I had an external PC card (echo indigo) was better at latency than the one I have now.

Maybe my RAM is not enough?

[Sundown]

You'll pay for quality, but I highly recommend PC Audio Labs and RME interfaces. My Rok Box 7 and RME Multiface are top notch, but not cheap. But trouble free operation sometimes pays for itself.

[CaptainUnderpant]

Check out the RME HDSP9632

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/HDSP9632

This PCI (non e) card is probably not a good idea anymore, as most motherboards do not have the legacy PCI slot anymore, only PCIe slots on most newer (last several years) computers. So even if your motherboard can accept this cards, your next PC will make it obsolete.

[hardware]

Trust me on the East West stuff. You'll need to go beyond the 16GB/32GB RAM.

Don't know if you want to gig live with the PLAY stuff but an M.2 and lots of RAM is what I had to use.

Hollywood Strings needs 8GBs of RAM just for itself.

[Markay]

The drivers that come with an interface are as important as the type of connection. By all reports the reason RME outperform other interfaces is as much down to their superior drivers than to the hardware in the box. Note that MS has yet to release Thunderbolt drivers for Win 10. They are coming.

 

WASAPI is also reported to be much improved in Win 10. Given the improvements that are due soon in Win 10 including native TB USB-C support and the demise Firewire you may want to wait a little before shelling out big bucks on an interface.

[Rou]

Trust me on the East West stuff. You'll need to go beyond the 16GB/32GB RAM.

Don't know if you want to gig live with the PLAY stuff but an M.2 and lots of RAM is what I had to use.

Hollywood Strings needs 8GBs of RAM just for itself.

 

I only use EWQL-SO (Gold) and use it live with PLAY - you are right about having more than 8GB RAM. In EWQL-SO, however, there's an option to adjust the number of voices per instrument you would like to use so as not to "overwhelm" your PCs/laptops installed DRAM limitations. I'm not familiar if there's a similar option within Hollywood strings though.

 

For live use of EWQL-SO's PLAY software, I had to upgrade my humble MSI i7 (quad w/ HT) laptop from 4GB to 16GB (maximum memory that my specific laptop model will take/allow for upgrade) and also had to change the stock HDD to SSD (plus replaced the optical drive with a caddy + another samsung SSD)to get EWQL-SO to play nicely/smoothly.

[burningbusch]

The drivers that come with an interface are as important as the type of connection. By all reports the reason RME outperform other interfaces is as much down to their superior drivers than to the hardware in the box.

 

 

RME says it like this:

 

"The secret of success: RME is the only manufacturer not to use a third party USB or FireWire audio technology, but an own, self-developed Hammerfall Audio Core with an outstanding performance and uncompromised pro audio features.

 

The Fireface UFX now combines USB and FireWire, Made by RME, within one interface.

 

USB 2.0 . The Fireface UFX has been uncompromisingly optimized for highest performance under Windows and Mac OS. It uses a special customized firmware for every operating system. Like other RME USB 2.0* interfaces, the UFX provides revolutionary ultra-low latencies even with multiple channels.

 

* The Fireface UFX is compatible to USB 3 chipsets.

 

FireWire . The completely redesigned FireWire core provides the UFX with the same exceptional compatibility and performance as RME's USB solution. For the first time the UFX does not have any FireWire chip inside at all - it's completely programmed into the FPGA, under direct control of the RME masterminds, and updated by a simple firmware update - if ever necessary. This new technology is even compatible to Agere's infamous rev. 6 chip - that says it all."

 

Busch.

[Jazzmammal]

Bansaw, I'm not sure you need what these guys are talking about. You sound like a home hobbyist trying to have some fun.

 

I see no reason why your current lappy and interface can't do the job so let's focus on that if you want to. If you're set on getting a whole new setup anyway fine but if you're simply wanting to get a setup that works I think your laptop should be ok. The big deal here is these guys are talking about the best of the best using really huge samplesets and going for recording some humoungous amount of live tracks with tons of effects in real time. That takes serious power but I don't think you're talking about that level of audio performance, are you?

 

Let us know exactly how you're going to use this setup. By that I mean are you looking to create a 4 piece band and play along or do you want to layer 139 orchestral parts at the same time to create the next Star Wars film score?

 

If all you're doing is recording one track at a time, play some midi files, play along, have some fun at home then a simple, cheap USB interface using the freebie ASIO4ALL will work just fine. You can get the latency down to under 10-12ms and trust me in spite of what the purists say, that plenty low enough. But you do need to understand how this works including how to set up your laptop and your DAW software. I see you're using Sonar, there's tons of guys on the Cakewalk forums and maybe here too who can walk you through that.

 

Bob

[The Real MC]

My MIDI computer is running WFW311. No latency problems.

[JeffLearman]

... a discreet graphics card is unnecessary unless you also work with 3D graphics or wish to play games.

... or if you don't surf porn sites ...

 

(I think you meant "discrete".)

[Bansaw]

Bansaw, I'm not sure you need what these guys are talking about. You sound like a home hobbyist trying to have some fun.

Bob

Yes, you're right, I am just looking to enjoy music and not really need to play anything live. I just want to be able to put more than two tracks down without it dropping out all over the place.

I find my USB sound card not as good performace as even my older laptop which took the PC echo indigo card.

I think MOTU is taking up my RAM and I only have 4GB of it.

I am thinking of getting a desktop with a decent amount of RAM and a SSD.

But, yeah, I'm not a pro , just aiming to enjoy making music, laying down up to six tracks and having them play smoothly.

 

Soes ASIO4ALL work with external USB cards like mine?

[Jazzmammal]

I just looked up MOTU Ethno and learned something. I had no idea they have a big softsynth like that. Yes, 4 gigs of RAM is probably not enough but that can still depend on how large an instrument you're working with. If it's only one and it's only one gig then no problem but if you're trying to work with a bunch at a time then yeah, big problems. You can have problems even if you're getting close like say your instruments are using 3 gigs because your OS and other stuff needs some of that too and now your machine is choking for more RAM. Your instrument list will say how large they are. Try working with two or three of the smaller ones that total less than 2 gigs. I'll bet it will work ok. Otherwise you can definitely get lots of glitches. Don't confuse glitches with latency, this doesn't sound like a latency problem, it's a RAM problem.

 

I wouldn't worry about a new interface right now I think having a new machine with lots of RAM will do it for you.

 

Having said that I just looked up your UM-1. That's a pretty basic interface but it still could work. Once you're set up and running make sure to install the latest driver for it and try it out. ASIO4ALL can work too but if not you might need a better interface. For what you're doing you do not need to spend several hundred bucks, you can get a good solid interface for around a hundred or so and they all have decent drivers to get you good latency. I'm not going to list them all, wait until you're set up and have tried using what you have then we can get into that. If I were to bet, I'd bet that a new machine with lots of RAM will be all you need and that little interface is good enough.

 

Just my personal thing I hate seeing people spending money on stuff they don't need just because they need a bit of help setting things up. I've done a lot of this, if you have questions you can PM me or post back here.

 

Bob

[hardware]

Supermicro make excellent motherboards.

They only recently stopped using ISA Slots.

PCI 32bit is only obsolete if you believe that Microsoft/Apple nonsense.

 

Intel's newest chipset the C236 is on new Supermicro motherboards. They have options for 1-4 Obsolete PCI slots.

 

Workstations and server manufacturers will use PCI for years to come.

PCI-X slots too.

Just a year ago ISA Slots were left out but were not seen in motherboards gamers and audio guys tend to use for 10 years.

 

You can avoid the cycle of endless new mediocrity as long as you want.

Just get off of the guided tour.

[Al Coda]

PCI 32bit is only obsolete if you believe that Microsoft/Apple nonsense.

 

I´d say, when multiple old Creamware DSP PCI cards work flawlessly on modern socket 1150 (1155 probably too) computer motherboards, a single RME HDSP 9632 PCI card should work too.

 

It´s all about finding the right ATX/ micro-ATX motherboard in the socket 1150 range of mobos.

 

A.C.

 

 

[AnotherScott]

No latency on this one. The sound of the clacks are instantaneous.

 

[Markay]

Bansaw, +1 to Bob's comments above, what OS is on the laptop, is it 32 or 64 bit, and what DAW are you using? Have you got all background tasks closed when using your DAW?

[ITGITC]

No latency on this one. The sound of the clacks are instantaneous.

 

 

Now that was just MEAN... for those old guys who know what that is and probably used one in college.

 

Tom (who knows what that is, but gave it up to use a slide rule in college.)

 

 

[Bansaw]

Just my personal thing I hate seeing people spending money on stuff they don't need just because they need a bit of help setting things up. I've done a lot of this, if you have questions you can PM me or post back here.

Bob

Thanks Bob, appreciate it. I think you're right with the RAM. Although I had an older laptop running XP which gave me better results because I was using the Echo Indigo sound card. So I think RAM is the main culprit becuase MOTU is a hog, but I also think my USB sound card could be improved upon.

 

@Markay, I am using a Toshiba L500 (Win7) which was prety high spec when I bought it 6yrs ago, but it only has 4GB ram and the maxiumum it can have is 8GB. Thats why I am tempted to look at a desktop and really boost the RAm up to 32GB or thereabouts. I have Sonar Home 64bit, backgr tasks minimal.

I dont need to be portable since I dont perform so a desktop seems feasible: desktop with decent (not top-of-the-range professional tho) PICe sound card and RAM with an SSD is probably sufficient for me.

[burningbusch]

My Mac Pro was feeling extremely sluggish and I was having lots of issues with plugins having glitches and everything else, didn't know what the problem was. I happened to look at System Preferences one day and discovered I was only running on 4GB of RAM. 8GB of RAM had failed somewhere along the line but startup tests never found the issue, so I was unaware. Now I'm back to 12GB and everything's great.

 

Busch.

[seanl]

I built a PC in a 4U server case 2 years ago.

 

ASUS Z77 VPro MOBO, Intel i7 3.4 quadcore CPU, Firewire is off the MOBO itself. 500 GB Solid State Drive, 32 GB of DDR3 1600m ram. Windoze 7-64 pro. I hooked that up to a Focusrite Sapphire Pro 40 firewire and no latency to speak of. Running Studio One Pro, Alchemy, Pianoteq, bla, bla, bla..

 

 

I have an exact dupe set up and am running LINUX Mint 17.2 with Windoze 7-64 Pro locked up in Virtualbox where it belongs.... Still putzing with this to get the USB's working correctly.

 

Since this stuff is 2+ years old I'd imagine if you just bought a regular PC plastic case...you'd be able to recreate this setup for well under $800.00 today.

[Markay]

@Markay, I am using a Toshiba L500 (Win7) which was prety high spec when I bought it 6yrs ago, but it only has 4GB ram and the maxiumum it can have is 8GB. Thats why I am tempted to look at a desktop and really boost the RAm up to 32GB or thereabouts. I have Sonar Home 64bit, backgr tasks minimal.

I dont need to be portable since I dont perform so a desktop seems feasible: desktop with decent (not top-of-the-range professional tho) PICe sound card and RAM with an SSD is probably sufficient for me.

 

The desktop you are thinking of will definitely give you plenty of resources. As you are running 64 bit Win7 in the laptop I am surprised it is choking running two instances of a VST in Sonar. A 4gb stick of DDR3 ram should cost about $100 installed and could be a cheap upgrade and keep the laptop humming along for while when you decide to upgrade to Win 10 64 bit. I have found the Toshiba utilities to be a little flaky in the past. Might be worth turning these off if you have these running.

 

Also to test whether the selected VST's are the issue you could open a new project and install some free low resource VST's and see how many instances will run concurrently before it chokes. That will narrow it down to whether the selected VST's are the issue or there is some other process taking up resources.