Do you hear the individual harmonics of a timbre?

[dansouth]

When someone plays a note on an instrument - organs excepted - can you pick out the individual harmonics, or do you hear one "sound", i.e. a fundamental with a certain timbre. I'm in the latter category, but I've heard people say things like, "Hmm, you can hear the harmonics really clearly." Am I missing something? :D

[Bucktunes]

I think most of us (myself included) tend to hear the [i]effect[/i] of the harmonics on the composite sound. That's how we identify differences between, say, a Steinway and a Baldwin piano. Or between any piano and any acoustic guitar, for that matter. Also, the strength or absence of certain frequency ranges cause us to perceive a sound as bright, sparkly, dull, warm, etc. But I certainly can't get much more specific than that. The only time I can identify a harmonic by frequency is when it's right on the verge of feedback. Even then I use relative pitch to find the note and octave, and a bit of rough math to zero in on the frequency. I could easily be wrong, but I think the only people who can identify individual harmonics are those with an insane level of perfect pitch. You know, when you could sit on a piano keyboard and they'll tell you every note you're sitting on. :eek: Peace all, Steve

[rold]

I can sometimes notice the harmonics, but only in sustained and consistent notes. Cello and piano notes, for example. If the note is any shorter than 3 or 4 seconds, there's a good chance I won't notice it at all... Lots more ear training for me, eh? :D Peace, Harold [ 12-15-2001: Message edited by: 'rold ]

[Hippie]

I don't know about everyone, but my wife always hears music in the 5th harmonic. She cannot play (flute)- [yea, yea, both types. ;) ] or sing a song in the root key. We constantly have this argument about the notes until I have to pull out the CD and prove it. [ 12-15-2001: Message edited by: Hippie ]

[RaGe]

As a matter of fact I do hear harmonics with some percussions such as toms, snares (sometimes), cowbells, some cymbals, etc... I started to "hear" those by paying attention and really looking for the harmonics (a friend of mice was claiming to hear notes, i couldn't help and try for myself!). And I don't have any kind of perfect pitch whatsoever! I often struggle to transcribe by ear.

[RaGe]

Oh and just out of curiosity: Those of you recording at 96KHz, does it really captures the higher harmonics (making the sound "fuller") or is it just marketing?

[-]

I hear them, but I don't usually concentrate on them unless I make a conscious effort to do so. I'm usually more focused on hearing how the notes and timbres in the arrangement work (or [i]don't[/i] work) together, which is much more of a gut feeling thing than a "I've got a little bit too much of 10 kHz in that vocal sound". When I'm mixing or approaching things from a purely engineering angle, then yeah, I listen to things like that. [ 12-15-2001: Message edited by: popmusic ]

[GY]

I tend to notice harmonics more with live instruments rather than listening to a recording, especially with orchestral instruments and tuned percussion. I think it's crucial to EQ these instruments very carefully, not to eliminate their important overtones. I think of it as stew. If you put the stew in a blender, it still tastes like stew, but it's harder to pick out the individual tastes of say, the celery, potato, garlic. You lose the texture. And yes, lots of garlic.

[KHAN]

[quote]Originally posted by RaGe: [b]Oh and just out of curiosity: Those of you recording at 96KHz, does it really captures the higher harmonics (making the sound "fuller") or is it just marketing?[/b][/quote] Uh Oh... :eek: ---------------- KHAN (fearing the worst)

[RaGe]

[quote]Originally posted by KHAN: [b] Uh Oh... :eek: ---------------- KHAN (fearing the worst)[/b][/quote] I KNOW! :p

[fantasticsound]

[quote]Originally posted by RaGe: [b] I KNOW! :p [/b][/quote] I don't believe you do, RaGe! There's a thread regarding the reality and hype of 96kHz sample rate on GM's forum, originally posted by Nika, which went on over 1000 posts! That's right! A thread with 1000+ posts. Not a forum. :eek: The conversation includes GM and several notable experts, including Paul Frindle, a designer of several key components of the Sony Oxford digital mixer. In the end, there was still little consensus on your question. The summary: Theoretically, well designed 24bit converters at 44.1kHz sample rate should reproduce every signal we can hear perfectly. For a buffer, most agreed 48kHz is the minimum we can trust to accomplish the task, given limitations of filtering, anti-aliasing, and other technology involved in conversion. Regardless, to my knowledge, they were unable to test apples to apples, regarding a 48kHz-24bit recording vs. a 96kHz-24bit recording. Other effects of ultrasonic waves emanating from common musical instruments have not been quantified anywhere. The waves exist, but we don't know of any way for our body to notice or process them. So the answer is... Could Be!?!

[Moronix]

Go get Fascinating Rhythem by 'Sol Ho`opi`i'. You will hear the 2nd harmonic of the steel guitar stick out like a sore thumb. Robert Morin Still not at Alesis

[Chip McDonald]

(beware, I've been ill for the past 2 weeks and haven't made a long tangential post in a while... that does sound odd, typing that out? But that's what I do, and people laugh like I'm making it up, and when I play it they say "well, you already knew it" , well of course I did, I'm just playing what I'm hearing in my head!? This one smart assed kid I taught kept trying to say I learned songs from tab that I was showing him, so he made me listen to some obscure punk song, and then I did the "be quiet" thing while I listened back to it and figured it out, and he STILL didn't believe me. Another kid threw his guitar at me because I played back some solo that Tim Reynolds did with Dave Matthews that he played for me, as it was playing, and ever since that day he's been much more "attentive" to what I say, but I don't know why he reacted that way - other than maybe he doesn't hear it? Nothing like contemplating the intangible...