I have not practiced scales in years and years.

[desertbluesman]

So my picking was getting sloppier and sloppier because I did not take the steps to make it cleaner. So I am back at it, practicing scales a little bit. And the sad truth of it is; my hands forgot all of the moves, and positions so I am now having to retrain them. But it sure hurts the hands at 71 years old to be going back to the basic steps in being a fluent player.

 

I sure had a lot of trouble making the hand remember the basic major scale "feeling". My mind remembers the patterns but the hands just would not go there. I am surprised at this, as I used to do an hour of different scales every single day back in the day, I thought I had that down. Now I know better.

 

Back at the grind, although about 10 minutes of it is all I can muster up at this stage....... But it is getting better slowly (very slowly)

[skipclone 1]

One thing I noticed, is that when you like tearin up the fretboard it can be hard to slow down and really study. I`m trying to be more `holistic` for lack of a better word, in my playing-IOW, not ripping out some cool phrase and not knowing where to go from there. It takes a lot of thinking through where one is in relation to where one started, so I`m going back to some basics as well, with chords and scales both.

[Larryz]

My left hand hurts a little, as I was on the scales last night for 1/2 an hour and again this morning for another half hour. I'm still learning new things shifting from 5 note to 7 note scales all over the neck and equating them with different chords and patterns and even throwing in a little melody line. Keeps me occupied and I would be lost without the scales...

[desertbluesman]

I generally use the pentatonic scale and complete major or minor of those two in the different modes. However I like the pentatonic minor best because I don't have to think at all. I simply know it so well I just go from sound to sound without thinking, it is more like feeling my way by sound more than sight or thought.

 

However to have the dexterity, and articulation down pat, I have to go back to the basics and do my finger exercises. Playing fast is no problem for me, slowing down and inserting pauses is my shortcoming.

 

And with my aging brain and the I can't remember s##t disease that happens to most older folks in my age group, remembering what key I am playing in is the trick. Of course if I pay attention well enough, all that happens easily.......

[Larryz]

I have the same disease DBM and I call it Senior Moments...the scales can be a great memory aid. I can carry on a conversation while playing the pentatonic scales. Sometimes I'll play them while watching the news on TV and play during the commercials and during the boring news loops that I've already seen.

 

The seven note scales take a little more thought but I'm starting to get those down to the same comfort level as the pentatonic scales. I divide the 7 note scales into the same 5 positions and skip the Phrygian and Locrian (sp?) as they are already included in the patterns I'm using. If I decide I ever really need them, I'll single them out. They sound like "the camels are coming haroo haroo" when I play them. I favor the minor scale vibe for most of my playing in Latin, Blues, Jazz and R&R. I still work on the major scale for R&R, Country and Country Rock too. Then I try to go in and out of both. I don't play for speed but sometime S**t Happens...

 

[Guitarzan]

technically i don't practice scales but i know my fretboard well enough. major minor, pentatonic. but seeing i write a lot i tend to study some when i am looking for a different feel. my hands are nimble enough but i am no shredder. i kind of avoided that when the 80's hit. i was far more interested in the rest of the songs.

i find if something catches my ear i will check it out. i am constantly listening to music which mentally programs my brain.

 

[desertbluesman]

I don't practice scale that much, not like I did in the 1970's when I was taking lessons from Bob Aslanian (Al DeMeola's guitar teacher) In order to learn what he taught me every other week, I had to practice 4 hours a day with no days off. What a monster player he was (is?) He could play Bach Fugues on his guitar. I was jaw dropped amazed at what he could so with 6 strings.

 

However I had to start again just to improve my articulation. Plus my memory needs to practice the things I used to know just for mental health.

[skipclone 1]

Ha! yeah one bit of irony I`ve noticed is, dissing someone by saying,

`He has forgotten more about ___ than you`ll ever know`.

Somehow being the desingnated deity of that sounded a lot cooler before.

[p90jr]

I used to play an hour or two every day in some capacity.

 

Now, with a kid, that doesn't always happen... and I'm noticing it a bit... so I'm trying to figure out just what makes the best use of the time I do get. That seems to be focused practice of scales, which I always hated and never really did before. Keeping up the dexterity and speed is what I have to work on, now... I just to just play along with records, but if I need to learn something now I can just listen to it a few times and pick it up by ear without sitting with a guitar.

[DreamTheaterRulz]

Hey DBM,

 

Do you do anything to strengthen your hands/fingers? Like the grips squeezer things or the special ones for guitar players where each individual finger has it's own button/spring to push?

 

These can strengthen your hands significantly AND fight the arthritic effects of age. Funny thing is, they might make your hand hurt a bit at first, but using them makes your hands hurt less if you have some arthritis.

 

I use the extra firm ones and they really help.

[Fred_C]

Hey DBM,

 

Do you do anything to strengthen your hands/fingers? Like the grips squeezer things or the special ones for guitar players where each individual finger has it's own button/spring to push?

 

These can strengthen your hands significantly AND fight the arthritic effects of age. Funny thing is, they might make your hand hurt a bit at first, but using them makes your hands hurt less if you have some arthritis.

 

I use the extra firm ones and they really help.

 

This could be a valuable piece of information. Thanks!

[Larryz]

Welcome aboard DreamTheaterRule(s)!

[skipclone 1]

Yes, welcome indeed-

what I have done before is, get three or four of those gum erasers they sell in art supply stores. Wad them up together, get a container where you can store the wad to keep dirt and crap off it and-well you`re Charles Bronson in `The Mechanic`.

[DreamTheaterRulz]

Thanks for the welcome guys!

 

And FYI, there is supposed to be another S on the end of my screen name, but this forum cut me off on letters one letter short of my screen name in the other forums. :-)

[desertbluesman]

Hey DBM,

 

Do you do anything to strengthen your hands/fingers? Like the grips squeezer things or the special ones for guitar players where each individual finger has it's own button/spring to push?

 

These can strengthen your hands significantly AND fight the arthritic effects of age. Funny thing is, they might make your hand hurt a bit at first, but using them makes your hands hurt less if you have some arthritis.

 

I use the extra firm ones and they really help.

 

Generally I used to practice scales for a solid hour, 5 runs through on each fret for a myriad of scale positions. It was grueling work truthfully. I never did the ball squeezing thing, if anything, lifting concrete block and heavy trowels full of mortar made my hands too strong and my touch was too heavy. So I did the scales with very light picking to mitigate that heaviness.

 

Welcome DTR (who by the way is an old friend from another forum we used to frequent together)

[desertbluesman]

Thanks for the welcome guys!

 

And FYI, there is supposed to be another S on the end of my screen name, but this forum cut me off on letters one letter short of my screen name in the other forums. :-)

 

http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/artists/just_cuz/JC-hysterical.gif

[Lokair]

I have never really taken scales outta my practice routine. And I think for me they are a great building block, First I crush out G Major and all of its modes, then Fsharp minor Pent and all of its modes , added blues note and the natural 4th of said blues note added. Every thing else practiced after that is playing a solid set of chords with the mind set of what I will play over them, Now I use a looper pedal, and try the said lead lines and solo material.

 

Now after I make it a point to find my scales for the new lead lines and mark em down, then I try a different feel(sometimes a mode, sometimes a whole new scale) I find my self using harmonic minor mixed with a blues scale, sometimes related sometimes not.

 

I also remember to get out the metronome for quality scale practice.

 

Lok

[skipclone 1]

Hey DBM,

 

Do you do anything to strengthen your hands/fingers? Like the grips squeezer things or the special ones for guitar players where each individual finger has it's own button/spring to push?

 

These can strengthen your hands significantly AND fight the arthritic effects of age. Funny thing is, they might make your hand hurt a bit at first, but using them makes your hands hurt less if you have some arthritis.

 

I use the extra firm ones and they really help.

 

Generally I used to practice scales for a solid hour, 5 runs through on each fret for a myriad of scale positions. It was grueling work truthfully. I never did the ball squeezing thing, if anything, lifting concrete block and heavy trowels full of mortar made my hands too strong and my touch was too heavy. So I did the scales with very light picking to mitigate that heaviness.

 

Welcome DTR (who by the way is an old friend from another forum we used to frequent together)

 

Squeezing is not the only idea. You may be familiar with those Chinese balls from old kung fu movies. You roll them around in your hands and they stimulate the acupuncture points, help with dexterity and generally feel good. One of my martial art teachers-maybe he knew I play, not sure-gave me a more easily obtainable alternative-three walnuts. I think they are still around somewhere but I may have gotten worried about them rotting or attracting bugs-anyway same idea.

[desertbluesman]

Squeezing is not the only idea. You may be familiar with those Chinese balls from old kung fu movies. You roll them around in your hands and they stimulate the acupuncture points, help with dexterity and generally feel good. One of my martial art teachers-maybe he knew I play, not sure-gave me a more easily obtainable alternative-three walnuts. I think they are still around somewhere but I may have gotten worried about them rotting or attracting bugs-anyway same idea.

 

Good info there. Thanks.

[p90jr]

Does anyone else here struggle with Carpal Tunnel Syndrome to any degree?

 

Strangely, I find mine flairs up when I play less than usual.

 

Going to play a Stones Beggars Banquet tribute thing next month, was going over stuff last night to remember it... playing "Street Fighting Man" on an acoustic (with low action) in Open D tuning at the 10th fret - a simple one-finger barre - was killing me and gave me the frozen, cramped claw pretty quickly. I'll have to work that one out, ergonomically and physically, for the show... or use an ES-335 and sacrifice a bit of the texture (and I realize no one cares/would notice but me). But the fact that a problem flared up always makes me want to work at it and overcome it.

[Larryz]

I haven't had problems with carpel tunnel yet (or if it is carpel I'm just too dumb to know it). I have had problems in the past with what I call snap finger. The index finger on my left fretting hand would just snap shut and lock in place after a few hours of playing on stage at the most inappropriate time! It was way too painful to try and straighten my finger back out and you couldn't force it without sending electrical pain up your arm! Anyway, (long story short) I started taking a break after each 45 minutes and eating some bananas and getting a supplement with potassium in it. It's been at least 10 years now, with no more snap finger...I can play up to two hours straight now but any 3 or more gig over that, I take a break every hour.

 

I do get some wrist and finger nerve pain now and then but I can play through it. I also have some growth type of nodes in the palm of my left hand and thought it was from fretting the guitar. Now it's starting in my right picking hand too so I know it's just old age catching up with me. I've had two specialized doctors look at them and they said as long as you can bend your fingers back, you're OK so leave the little growth nodes alone. When your fingers start to claw forward and you can't bend them back, then it may be time for surgery...

 

Anyway, wishing you all the best P90 and you might try those Chinese boading balls Skip was referring too, or three walnuts without the bugs in them LOL! I think limitation and not overworking yourself will pay bigger dividends as it did in may case...and don't forget the bananas!

[desertbluesman]

I also have osteoarthritis in most of my bone joints, So far I have only had one freeze up of my fingers when I was playing several months ago. I assume the more you play and practice the more your body lubes up the finger joints. I assume this because when I work out at the gym (6 days a week) my body hurts less than if I take a week off of workouts when visiting family.

[p90jr]

I haven't had problems with carpel tunnel yet (or if it is carpel I'm just too dumb to know it). I have had problems in the past with what I call snap finger. The index finger on my left fretting hand would just snap shut and lock in place after a few hours of playing on stage at the most inappropriate time! It was way too painful to try and straighten my finger back out and you couldn't force it without sending electrical pain up your arm! Anyway, (long story short) I started taking a break after each 45 minutes and eating some bananas and getting a supplement with potassium in it. It's been at least 10 years now, with no more snap finger...I can play up to two hours straight now but any 3 or more gig over that, I take a break every hour.

 

I do get some wrist and finger nerve pain now and then but I can play through it. I also have some growth type of nodes in the palm of my left hand and thought it was from fretting the guitar. Now it's starting in my right picking hand too so I know it's just old age catching up with me. I've had two specialized doctors look at them and they said as long as you can bend your fingers back, you're OK so leave the little growth nodes alone. When your fingers start to claw forward and you can't bend them back, then it may be time for surgery...

 

Anyway, wishing you all the best P90 and you might try those Chinese boading balls Skip was referring too, or three walnuts without the bugs in them LOL! I think limitation and not overworking yourself will pay bigger dividends as it did in may case...and don't forget the bananas!

 

I think what you describe is Carpal Tunnel Syndrome, I'm sorry to say... but at least that means you can use medical knowledge of the problem to beat it!

 

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/carpal-tunnel-syndrome/basics/definition/con-20030332

 

I sat and looked at the mechanics of what I was doing that caused the problem, and once again I was using my thumb on the back on the neck to apply the pressure to pull down on the strings. I'm double-joined in my thumbs, which is bad because that means they're weaker than normal. By remembering that we're supposed to apply pressure to the strings by pulling back from our shoulders instead of the thumb and wrist I eliminated the problem. That's where I get myself into trouble, the bad habit of applying pressure with the thumb and wrist. I have to be conscious of that...

[p90jr]

I also have osteoarthritis in most of my bone joints, So far I have only had one freeze up of my fingers when I was playing several months ago. I assume the more you play and practice the more your body lubes up the finger joints. I assume this because when I work out at the gym (6 days a week) my body hurts less than if I take a week off of workouts when visiting family.

 

Definitely, DBM... when we don't use muscles, joints and tissues they constrict and tighten... then when we do use them all of a sudden we "micro-tear" them. Or rather, I think the science is that when we use them regularly the body gets used to dousing those micro-tears with Lactic Acid, that heals and strengthens them. When we aren't used to it, it takes the body longer to respond in channeling the Lactic Acid to those areas.

 

When we have bad form/technique, we're tearing those areas in ways they weren't meant to heal and strengthen.

 

I had to deal with Plantar Fasciitis, a painful condition where the Plantar Fascia - the big muscle on the bottom of the foot - tightens too much from not being stretched enough (read: wearing shoes too much and walking on hard surfaces). I'm not one to doubt Doctors, but after a long time of telling me I just needed better shoes... when I finally self-diagnosed it (after a painful jog to connect flights in the huge Atlanta airport, to open the on-flight magazine and have an article describing what I was suffering through right that moment) the advice was "never go barefoot." That seemed so counter to common sense I did the opposite and sought out the most minimally-soled shoes I could find, went barefoot as much as possible (especially in the yard in grass or places with sand) and tried to stop stomping down on my heels when I walked. Friends suffering through the same thing who went along with Docs are now still having to go wear boot braces and get shots in their heels now and then, while I haven't had more problems. That and baby-birthing... which we've "evolved" to making women lie flat on their backs, taking gravity's assistance out of the picture. Go someplace in the world that doesn't have Doctors and you'll find a whole lot of babies.

 

Whoever we individually might credit with designing us, we have to remember the same designer isn't responsible for the man-made stuff we navigate in our environments, so we need to give it some consideration.

[DreamTheaterRulz]

DBM,

 

I have acute degenerative monoarthritis. At this point, it mainly bothers my former basketball injuries. Left foot, (where they initially thought I had gout) left wrist (broken, b-ball) and a couple of the fingers joints and thumb that I dislocated playing b-ball. All on the left hand, of course.

 

So I did some reading up on arthritis and it seems that strengthening exercises are very beneficial. One article even said bluntly, it may hurt while you are doing the exercises but it will hurt less afterwards, and it will also slow the degeneration. Also, the type things you did in the past do make your hands strong, but not flexible. Carrying heavy weights with your hands and fingers can make for strong, but inflexible hands. NOT the thing us guitar players want. I'm sure you've all seen the old stories about the body builder muscle dudes that can't even hold a pen and write the normal way. Their hand could crush a baseball but can't pick up a dime. LOL

 

Anyway, strengthen and STRETCH. Work on the flexibility. Scales alone won't do enough of that to keep your joints healthy. Stretch those fingers and wrist before you play and at other times to keep your joints flexible. (One of Petrucci's videos he demo's how he stretches to warm up before playing and he goes all the way up the arm and shoulder).

[desertbluesman]

DTR When I was a bricklayer working full time, I had to do scale exercises for an hour every night just to loosen up my hands before any serious practice could occur, with extreme concentration on lightly touching the fretboard and lightly picking the strings. It sure did tighten up my hands and fingers and caused me to practice extra every single day to just begin to feel the neck and strings again.

 

To this day I always have to remind myself to lighten my touch on both hands. It was a bad career choice for me as a wannabee guitarist, and I did as little of it as possible after I started playing. I tried all kinds of other jobs. Truck driving, bar tending, painting, finally after years of suffering in a trade I hated, I learned how to estimate by faking my way into jobs and learning on the job. As a small contractor I could estimate quantities, but labor, labor burden, equipment, and profit/overhead were all new to me. I faked it for several years for one contractor who helped me along the way then I moved on to others.

 

Lifting heavy weights sure ain't for guitarists who prefer a light touch, or any kind of dexterity, or decent articulation between fretting hand and picking hand.

[desertbluesman]

Whoever we individually might credit with designing us, we have to remember the same designer isn't responsible for the man-made stuff we navigate in our environments, so we need to give it some consideration.

 

And the creative essence (whatever that may be) sure goofed on the design of the prostate as well. Every time I leave my urologist office I look up at the sky and comment "bad design, bad design". So far no fix for that either....... http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/artists/just_cuz/JC-hysterical.gif

[skipclone 1]

I`ve never been big on using weights for physical training either. Speed and flexibility are more important to me than raw power, though it also has its place. If you take the Baoding ball idea and consider it as a model for the whole body, things like Pilates start to make sense.

[Larryz]

I do get some wrist and finger nerve pain now and then but I can play through it. I also have some growth type of nodes in the palm of my left hand and thought it was from fretting the guitar. Now it's starting in my right picking hand too so I know it's just old age catching up with me. I've had two specialized doctors look at them and they said as long as you can bend your fingers back, you're OK so leave the little growth nodes alone. When your fingers start to claw forward and you can't bend them back, then it may be time for surgery...

 

 

I think what you describe is Carpal Tunnel Syndrome, I'm sorry to say... but at least that means you can use medical knowledge of the problem to beat it!

 

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/carpal-tunnel-syndrome/basics/definition/con-20030332

 

I sat and looked at the mechanics of what I was doing that caused the problem, and once again I was using my thumb on the back on the neck to apply the pressure to pull down on the strings. I'm double-joined in my thumbs, which is bad because that means they're weaker than normal. By remembering that we're supposed to apply pressure to the strings by pulling back from our shoulders instead of the thumb and wrist I eliminated the problem. That's where I get myself into trouble, the bad habit of applying pressure with the thumb and wrist. I have to be conscious of that...

 

I checked out the info on the link. I don't seem to have the numbness or tingling as described in the carpel tunnel symptoms. My nerve pain is in the fingertips and is probably due to my diabetes and the wrist pain is also on the fretting hand. I do switch guitars that have different neck widths which seems to help the wrist. I also switch back forth from playing bar chords to cowboy grip chords which also gives my wrist a chance to relax. The fingertip nerve pain comes and goes and if I keep playing it pretty much goes away. I will give your shoulder pulling method a try and keep pressure off the thumb while playing leads and bar chords. Thanks for the info!