SK1 Gurus: a MIDI CC question for you

[Rusty Mike]

Hi All,

 

I'm considering buying a Hammond SK1. Because of the way my home studio is set up, I need the option of controlling it from my PC361. I can map CC's to the Kurzweil's sliders and buttons using Setup mode, but could not find out if the SK1 supports MIDI CC controls for all the organ parameters. The owner's manual shows CC numbers for the drawbars and some controls but not all. Specifically, I want to control C/V on/off, percussion on/off, rotary brake and rotary speed control. I use only C3, so I dont't need to change the type of C/V. Likewise, I use the standard soft/fast/3rd percussion setting, so I don't need to change the setting, just on/off. I do use both fast/brake and fast/slow leslie settings.

 

Do any of you SK1 owners know the answer, or can tinker with it to find out? It would help me save a lot of trouble and expense.

 

Thanks a bunch!

[J. Dan]

I don't have one, but it looks like from pages 145-150 of the manual that all of that can be accessed using NRPN's (non-registered parameter numbers), which are CC's 62 and 63 to set the parameter, and CC 6 to set the value.

[Rusty Mike]

Thanks for the reply Dan!

 

I have no experience with NRPN's, but I gather that this is a multi-byte message than needs to be sent to the SK1. For example, to implement a "Leslie Stop" command (per page 146 of the manual), I'd have to send the following sequence:

 

CC#62H=09

CC#63H=07

CC#06H=00 or 01

 

The impact here is twofold:

 

I can program a switch button on the PC3 to send a single CC number and value, but not a string of commands. The most feasible way to do that is to record a sequence of just the command string and then assign it as a Riff to a switch button on the PC3. Tedious but doable.

 

If I'm following this correctly, I'd actually need two separate sequence commands - one to tell the Leslie to stop (CC#06H=01), and another to tell the Leslie to turn (CC#06H=00). It looks like that would be the same for the Percussion On/Off. That would be 4 different sequences assigned to 4 different buttons.

 

I'd have to ponder this a bit. I don't have a problem programming the sequence string, but the usability starts to get a little cumbersome with the multiple buttons.

 

My apologies for the wonky topic and content.

[J. Dan]

Yep, that's pretty much it. Back when I was using a PC1600 (16 programmable faders/buttons) to do this sort of thing, I would program strings into the buttons for on/off type stuff, and for parameters that I wanted continuous control over, I'd assign a momentary switch with the first 2 messages and use a generic slider assigned to CC#6 for the data. So for instance, if I hit the filter cutoff button, the slider would control filter cutoff from thence forward until I hit another button to control something else. In your case, that doesn't necessarily help much since you'd still need a button to send 2 messages.

[Delaware Dave]

Rusty, I may be mistaken but I don't think the buttons above the sliders are MIDI-assignable. I believe I read that in the manual somewhere. You can assign the SW, ARP switches and sliders but I don't think the buttons above the sliders are MIDI assignable so that you can control the same functions of the SK1. I'll poke around to see where I read this. I was going to purchase the Hammond XM2 and rather than also purchasing the XMc2 drawbar unit I was going to use the PC3's buttons to control the C/V, percussion, etc. and I think in my research I discovered this.

[Rusty Mike]

Hi Dave. You are right - you cannot assign the buttons above the sliders. You can, however, assign the 8 program buttons to the right of the display. I most often use these to trigger riffs, but they can pretty much send any MIDI CC.

 

Like you, I've been trying to get the KB3 engine to do something I don't think it can. While the basic structure is there, I can't get it to spit and breathe, and the C/V is just off to my years. The single rotary is not quite right, and the double leslie sucks up too many resources. I'm ready to move on and get something that can do a more authentic B3 emulation.

 

I've been experimenting with connecting my Electro 3HP to the PC361, and have been able to easily get the proper controls to work. While I like Nord's emulation, the HP keybed is not good for organ playing, and keeping the Electro in organ mode while controlling from the Kurzweil precludes me from using it for something else since it's mono timbral.

 

I also bought VB3 and control it from the PC361, but feel really disconnected from it due to latency even though the sound is great. Plus I'm not interested in hauling my laptop and interface to a gig. I thought if I could work out the MIDI controls, I can get a used SK1 and control it from the K in my studio. For gigs, I would just play the SK1 directly. The SK1 would also be handy for quick jam sessions due to its size and flexibility. Using NRPN from the Kurz makes it more cumbersome than I had hoped.

 

I'm thinking about looking for a used Electro 4D now. I know I can control it from the Kurz, it sounds better than the E3, and I already have all the accessories for it. The EPs and APs are arguably better than the SK1, and there is no learning curve for me.

 

Thanks for your help everyone. This place rocks!

[Delaware Dave]

Just as an FYI I found the reference: manual page 7-30 "Switch Controller Parameters "...in Setup Mode the Bank buttons above the sliders are dedicated to zone status and muting, and are not assignable controllers...". As an example it would actually be nice if they were assignable so that you could control percussion on/off of a Hammond clone/module with the percussion on/off button on the PC3. It makes things so much simpler. In reality, I hope that Kurz beefs up KB3; V/C is not good, percussion is routed through the V/C; the V/C clashes with the internal leslie on fast speed and the double leslie takes up most of the DSP effects. Hoping the next generation has a step change so that another hammond clone/module is no longer necessary.