Jazz+ Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 I want to recant my previous brief review since playing the CP-4 and RD-800 again today. When I played them previously is was at Guitar Center where they had foolishly hung them at a steep angle on the wall. Doing that changes the action response substantially. Today I played them at an independent music store that had them set up in normal playing angles. Both were going mono into the small Motion Sound stereo amp. The CP-4 was definitely much easier to play fast. The RD-800 took more effort and felt sluggish, I felt like it was dragging. The Piano 1 on the RD-800 sounded like a blanket had been thrown over it, dark, muffled, muddy, supper legato without a bright hammer attack. The CP-4 piano was much brighter with better clarity, but still suffers from what I describe as an exaggerated hammer attack sample then with a quick drop off (like a very percussive piano, every note sounding like an exact copy of the previous note sample). The new Vintage EP (Rhodes) on the RD-800 sounded very good and the CP-4 Rhodes was nice. There was a mint condition Mark 1 Stage Rhodes, with a great action, next to them for reference. The Mark I, plugged into a Behringer amp, trumped them both for EP sound and body. The sound was fuller and rounder, it's hard to describe. The Roland and Yamaha EPs sounded more digital. Harry Likas was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." Find 700 of Harry’s piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and jazz piano tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doerfler Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 The new Vintage EP (Rhodes) on the RD-800 sounded very good and the CP-4 Rhodes was nice. Ther was a mint condition Mark 1 Stage Rhodes next to them for reference which trumped them both. ain't nothing like the real thing, but I wouldn't want to carry it to gig anymore. 35 years ago it was normal, today, not so much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz+ Posted March 15, 2014 Author Share Posted March 15, 2014 Yes, I would never consider a real Rhodes again simply because of its heaviness. Harry Likas was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." Find 700 of Harry’s piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and jazz piano tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana. Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Why didn't you audition them through the onboard speakers? Me, I would've used headphones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz+ Posted March 15, 2014 Author Share Posted March 15, 2014 I was most interested in the actions. I try not to audition digital pianos with headphones because I never use them with headphones. I use digital pianos only for live performances with amplifiers and usually in noisy venues. Headphones give me no idea of what sort of live presence a digital piano will have. An A : B comparison with a Motion Sound amp is a fair method for my purposes. Harry Likas was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." Find 700 of Harry’s piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and jazz piano tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LX88 Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Jazz + Can you describe how you think the CP-4 compares to the FP-4 ?... which I assume from you signature you are still playing.... I am one of the die hards that is still hanging in there with the Roland Superior Grand sample.I haven't encountered a CP-4 yet, but I do tend to like the clarity of many of the Yamahas. What I didn't like was the weight and lack of EP options in many previous editions. When I am demoing I generally like to use headphones for comparison . It would be hard for me to make an evaluation by listening to anything in mono as well. As far as phones go I am often hopeful that some DP's will translate their headphone sound to speakers. I do a lot of practicing with phones. It's often my preferred choice for listening to any digital piano. Speakers rarely measure up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl C. Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 I like the action of the CP4 very much. As you mention it's fast to play and I like that for all the non-acoustic sounds. Great for EP, clav, and organ. I also love the feel of the PHAIV for acoustic. It's amazing how much control you have with it. Funny though, via headphones I find the CP4 sounds a bit harsh and the RD800 was very clear. Both are great DP's. Cant go wrong with either that's for sure. edit: It's demos like this that make it so hard to decide which is best. Listen how they both sound great in their own way. If you were to conduct a blindfolded test, RD800 vs CP4, I think it would be 50/50 all the way. What do think? [video:youtube] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundown Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 I wish a music store near me carried these instruments. I went to a different Guitar Center today, and they had nothing of the sort... Just Kromes, MOX's, and FA's (and the digital piano room was weak as well). Todd Sundown Just finished: The Jupiter Bluff Working on: Driven Away, Gateway, Eighties Crime Thriller Main axes: Kawai MP11 and Kurz PC361 DAW Platform: Cubase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doerfler Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 I wish a music store near me carried these instruments. I went to a different Guitar Center today, and they had nothing of the sort... Just Kromes, MOX's, and FA's (and the digital piano room was weak as well). Todd sorry for you, Todd, but this is the same old story over and over again I want to audition a Kawai VPC1. Might as well want to fly to the moon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Don't know about the Roland, but I think it's true to say that the factory settings for the CP4 don't really show it to its best advantage, particularly the CFX which for me has the velocity floor set far too high. If you get chance, adjust the Velocity Depth and Offset values. I usually back the offset to around the 58/60 mark and increase the depth to around 68/70. This will give you a far more subtle touch. Studio: Yamaha P515 | Yamaha Tyros 5 | Yamaha HX1 | Moog Sub 37 Road: Yamaha YC88 | Nord Electro 5D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnH Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Why didn't you audition them through the onboard speakers? Me, I would've used headphones. Is this meant to be sarcastic? There's no onboard speakers on the two new products in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Six-string-man Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Why didn't you audition them through the onboard speakers? Me, I would've used headphones. Is this meant to be sarcastic? There's no onboard speakers on the two new products in this thread. I take it you haven't been following the forums too closely in the last few months JohnH The "on board speakers" is a running gag on here, in a similar vein to "How much does the gig pay" Peace, SSM Occasionally, do something nice for a total stranger. They'll wonder what the hell is going on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sMatt Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 I believe someone posted a thread the other day characterizing the action on the CP4 as "clumpy and gluey." Personally, i agree with this assessment. the keys on the CP4 feel bloated and sluggish to me. I feel like I'm fighting them. On the other hand, I really like the action on the RD800. I'm picky about action, and it's the best I've played in a stage piano. In fact, I like it so much I brought one home with me the other day, so I'll see how I feel about when I start using it for reals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl C. Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Im starting to reassess my situation due to the growing negative CP4 online reviews. It's really sticking in my head everytime I play it now. Go check GC/ZZ/Sweetwater reviews. Now I have these adverse thoughts in my head and are extremely distracting to say the least. When I play I keep thinking about quotes regarding no string resonance, clumpy & guey, keys hurting hands, harsh sounds, dead and lifeless, wood inserts in plastic keys are a gimmick, plastic cheap body, etc, etc. Everything I loved about the CP4 has been tarnished. uhg.. and some of these comments are not far from the truth. Im off to GC again to a/b the CP4 and RD800. It's amazing how powerful these forums and reviews can mold and manipulate your psyche. Not that thats a bad thing as long as it's for your best interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz+ Posted March 16, 2014 Author Share Posted March 16, 2014 Neither the RD-800 nor the CP-4 actions are clumpy (heavy and inelegant) or gluey (sticky). The RD-800 though requires more effort to play fast than the CP-4. I noticed I needed more finger effort on the RD-800 to play fast scales and less effort on the CP-4. Harry Likas was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." Find 700 of Harry’s piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and jazz piano tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voxpops Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 I noticed I needed more finger effort on the RD-800 to play fast scales and less effort on the CP-4. But after playing an FP-4 for any length of time, which has one of the lightest hammer actions out there, that was almost bound to be the case with a more "normally" weighted DP, don't you think, Jazz+? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl C. Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Neither the RD-800 nor the CP-4 actions are clumpy (heavy and inelegant) or gluey (sticky). The RD-800 though requires more effort to play fast than the CP-4. More finger motion is required on the RD-800 to play fast scales. I rather have more effort and control to keep fingers and hands vigorous and skillful. I think the PHA4 tends to be a bit more responsive and precise on the acoustic pianos over my Cp4's action. I do sense more resistance though. However, I like the Cp4 for EP and organ. Both actions are so good and very similar it's not much of a factor. I'm mostly focused on AP sound and control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sMatt Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Neither the RD-800 nor the CP-4 actions are clumpy (heavy and inelegant) or gluey (sticky). The RD-800 though requires more effort to play fast than the CP-4. More finger motion is required on the RD-800 to play fast scales. If I play a fast piece on the CP4, it's a lot harder for me to slog through it with the CP4's greater resistence. On the RD800, the action is a lot more accomodating and I'm able to play fast passages without the same struggle that I get on the CP4. A lot less finger action is required for me to play fast scales on the RD800. For context, I'm an acoustic piano player first and foremost... I play my "piano" piano every day, which has a renner action that blows the RD800 into space. That said, obviously this is personal preference. If you prefer the CP4, all the power to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sMatt Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Im starting to reassess my situation due to the growing negative CP4 online reviews. It's really sticking in my head everytime I play it now. Go check GC/ZZ/Sweetwater reviews. Now I have these adverse thoughts in my head and are extremely distracting to say the least. When I play I keep thinking about quotes regarding no string resonance, clumpy & guey, keys hurting hands, harsh sounds, dead and lifeless, wood inserts in plastic keys are a gimmick, plastic cheap body, etc, etc. Everything I loved about the CP4 has been tarnished. uhg.. and some of these comments are not far from the truth. Im off to GC again to a/b the CP4 and RD800. It's amazing how powerful these forums and reviews can mold and manipulate your psyche. Not that thats a bad thing as long as it's for your best interest. you really have to try it out and see what works best for you. I'm sharing my opinion cuz I just went through the process myself, but I'm just one dude on the internet For something like a keyboard action, which is so personal, you really need to form your own opinion. maybe you'll love the CP4, who knows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz+ Posted March 16, 2014 Author Share Posted March 16, 2014 I noticed I needed more finger effort on the RD-800 to play fast scales and less effort on the CP-4. But after playing an FP-4 for any length of time, which has one of the lightest hammer actions out there, that was almost bound to be the case with a more "normally" weighted DP, don't you think, Jazz+? I play the FP-4 maybe once a month. The CP-4 required less effort to play fast than my FP-4 retrofit action. I play a variety of Yamaha and Steinways daily at the conservatory. My piano at homes is a Mason and hamlin. Harry Likas was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." Find 700 of Harry’s piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and jazz piano tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
16251 Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 I can't remember a year when there were so many new DP offerings. I've made it known, I like my current DP, yet I'm considering a new purchase. I thought using my laptop with VST's would help me stave off any new purchases. Anyway, it's because of the two models being discussed here that I'm seriously considering a Nord Piano. I've realized that if I'm going to spend over $2 grand I'd be better off with a Nord, cause I can change the sounds when they start sounding stale. Maybe the action is not the best but most reviewers say it's not horrible or causes injury. I've listened and tried the CP4 and RD800 and what struck me was the EP's on both have finally improved, but didn't find the acoustics to be so much better than my FP4. I've been listening to the samples at Nord, and unless there's some shenanigans going on, there is some very nice sounding instruments there. The thought of being able to mix and match those sounds, with the ability to add effects like back when I playing on a real Rhodes, is starting to bring me around to Nord. I've always felt they were expensive and the thought of paying over $4 grand for a Stage would never happen, but with the less expensive Piano 2, I'm considering it. AvantGrand N2 | ES520 | Gallien-Krueger MK & MP | https://soundcloud.com/pete36251 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl C. Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Lots to like about the Cp4! Im just losing that connection I had with it originally. Maybe the honeymoon is over :idk . Im just trying to be honest with myself. I was so caught up with the 15% price reduction on Pres Day I think I rushed my decision and did not do enough discovery. I just made a quick assumption that the CP4 was geared toward AP and RD800 was more of a workstation. I was wrong on both accounts. Plus, I was just assuming that CP4 would be a huge upgrade to my CP300. Gotta say, not by much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnH Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Why didn't you audition them through the onboard speakers? Me, I would've used headphones. Is this meant to be sarcastic? There's no onboard speakers on the two new products in this thread. I take it you haven't been following the forums too closely in the last few months JohnH The "on board speakers" is a running gag on here, in a similar vein to "How much does the gig pay" Peace, SSM Oh geez I'm sorry, I missed that. Thks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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