baD mR fRosTy Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 Hello. A first post in a new forum is like that first key you plunk when you've wandered in front of a 9' grand - you COULD just sit down and maybe pull off some Rachmaninoff - but then, there could be someone giving a lecture nearby, or perhaps there's someone performing upstairs: after all you're wandering in the basement/green room of a major hall somewhere, if there's a 9' grand! And so, a single note serves as 1) a test to see if any unwanted attention is drawn, such as a "shhh" from someone appearing through a half-close door...a little louder follow-up, a nice chord to prove you can at least do that... 2) If 1) is "condition green", and no-one appears, a stool just happens to be there, that stool says to me "go on, there's no-one about, sit and have a quick play!"... And so sometimes you jump in, and sometimes you just finger a few chords...You don't want to start thundering away (for ME, less Rachmaninoff, and more Cripple Creek, lol)...but you want folks to know you aren't going to just make a racket...or attempt "Jump" etc etc... My point?? Well, I have to dive right in on your guys' forum...consider me plinking middle C loudly! Because I just dropped what is (to me) a big wad of cash on a used Hammond/Suzuki SK-1, and, although I have spent all of tonight (many hours actually) enjoying this forum - there are unquestionably some knowledgeable folks here- I have a few questions that are key to whether I can shake these cold feet! I'm hoping some folks have a few minutes to spare, and so thank you in advance! First off, I love the organ; like many of you, I have, and have had, tonewheel organs as well: I have a '58 C3,- mellow, and with missing tones, an M3 (stays in the studio) and an M102 (in the dining room, oddly) a couple Leslies/Trek II yada yada... But my organ for gigs has been a Roland VK-8M for about 7 years. Most of my pro career was in the 80's and 90's...there was nothing like this back then! The early version of the Korg, maybe a Krumar through an OD-1 for Purple, that was about it. I was stuck using a D50...which I put through a solid-state Leslie, and somehow the phases made it worse! Although it DID scream on high C! That's about it. But the last decade or two, as you know, the paradigm has shifted - there is more organ being used, at least in rock/pop, than the 90's - it's had a resurgence, at least in THOSE genres. For things like Jazz or blues, I suppose it never really went away? And the emulations were terrible throughout the 80's and early nineties anyway, IMO. First, I hade a VK-1000 (one of the first clones...great heavy distorted sound, perfect for the hard rock I was playing then) Then in about 2005, I got a VK-8M, what an improvement! They sound fine, and have a few really cool features, but the time had come for a dedicated board. Y'all know what I mean! Anyway, long story short (if'n that's still possible (why am I talking like a Duck Commander?? Oops, lol, no politics!?...a long story short: My omnibus question: (I just got this thing home 2-3 days ago. I do not what to try to return it, I am hoping for "fixes"...I will adapt if needed.) 1) I have read that the OS can be flashed. I am only mildly computer-literate, but I think I can handle that. I have read the manual, and can see the display say "VERSION MAIN 1.084"" Can anyone tell me how this compares to the update on the H/S page, which I believe is "version 7"? I cannot quite get my head around it? Do I need to do an update of this used keyboard, based on that....and will it solve any of: a) The "hiss". Darn it, I hadn't honestly noticed. Being as Old-School as I am, I am used to far worse: hisssss*buzz*...*CRACKLE!)....pop!!!! etc etc...and so I am pretty sure I can live with it. I use an RD-700NX for piano anyway. I only noticed it for the first time tonight, after reading this thread, when I cranked the master and EV volume and practically sat on the keys whilst grand piano was selected. Yes, I even had the vodka! PLEASE...I am not trying to resurrect that long-dead thread, as entertaining as it was (there are a lot more mean-spirited forums out there, trust me, as you probably know...that wasn't a hurtful argument, just a silly one. I t was funny - like being back in a band!) Anyyyyway...I only am wondering if there is any good news about the "hiss" with the new OSs? And do I HAVE the new OS? I am struggling with how to tell? 2) I am one of those blokes who (mistakenly) thought that every keyboard should be played at full volume or close to it. I think it comes from $&*&^%$^&*(*&^$#@ soundmen that didn't want any surprises, ergo wanted to be in control, and since my first rock band at 21, all those years ago, it has kinda become automatic. But my motif does it too...a incipient distortion at full volume, and so I am starting to rethink where the keyboards volume should be. At least at the start, lol, by 01:00 AM, it's all on 11! But, it shouldn't be, right? Second question: 2) I am getting some distortion/breaking up when I go past 3 o-clock on certain sounds...is this normal for this keyboard? And the penultimate query: (always wanted to use that word in a sentence!) 3) $3-400 for an expression pedal?? What am I missing here? That's only relevant to full time "organists", right? I mean, most of my rock career, even touring my C3, the pedal stayed mostly to the metal, as it were! So, knowing that, can I get by with the much cheaper Yammie pedal or even a Roland? Finally, if anyone has time, do I just add the latest updates? (using my thumb drive, ready to format, 4 GB)or is there another first step? If anyone can help with these questions, I thank you in advance, and I throw good organ karma your way- "may your left and right Leslies get that COOL throbbing, slightly, out-of-sync sound, just for your best solo! John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoken6 Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 Welcome to the forum, We welcome middle C plinkers here (I still count myself a newbie), but the convention is to post in the Introductions thread to introduce yourself. Think of it as signing in on the sheet on the door of the practice room! There are plenty of SK1 owners on the forums - I'm not one of them, but I can help you with question 3. If you don't want to spring for the "official" Hammond pedal, you may like the Yamaha FC7 (many here do) which is much cheaper. I use one in my Nord-based rig and am very happy with it. Cheers, Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baD mR fRosTy Posted December 23, 2013 Author Share Posted December 23, 2013 Thanks Mike, I think an FC-7 it is. I am just flashing the OS now, it's grinding away, at about the 15 minutes mark. Website warns as long as an hour, so I'll have to see it (and any subsequent answers, in the morrow!). I work nights, so I'm off to bed as others are rising for the day, it seems, these days... Yes, that was technically my "first" post - in the Introductions thread! But I didn't waste any time in making my queries, did I, lol? Like I say, I just bought it, used, and I am hoping that this OS flash will solve some of the little niggling worries one gets when one buys "used"...some, I have read, it definitely should, others....well, we shall see. Meanwhile, thanks for the tip...a earch of "FC-7 SK-1" confirms it - oddly, in that same thread. Thanks again. Off to dreamland... BTW, I still have my ORIGINAL Nord Lead - I LOVE that wooden "whammy bar": dive bombs and trill/chirps on a synth...it never gets old! ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoken6 Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 Thanks Mike, I think an FC-7 it is.[...] Yes, that was technically my "first" post - in the Introductions thread! But I didn't waste any time in making my queries, did I, lol? Whoops missed that one. Good luck with the fc7 and do report back on how you get on. That pedal is one of the first things this forum taught me. Cheers, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcS Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 Hello. 1) I have read that the OS can be flashed. I am only mildly computer-literate, but I think I can handle that. I have read the manual, and can see the display say "VERSION MAIN 1.084"" Can anyone tell me how this compares to the update on the H/S page, which I believe is "version 7"? I cannot quite get my head around it? 1.084 was the first software update released. It came out shortly after the first SK's were shipped. It (Rel. 7) should fix many issues. They are listed in the readme file that is in the Rel. 7 zip file. a) The "hiss". 2) I am one of those blokes who (mistakenly) thought that every keyboard should be played at full volume or close to it. But, it shouldn't be, right? The update may help with the noise. Some SK's have it, some more than others, some didn't seem to do it. That might have had something to do with how the owner had the instrument's volume cranked up. 2) I am getting some distortion/breaking up when I go past 3 o-clock on certain sounds...is this normal for this keyboard? Is the instrument distorting or is the input of the amp slipping due to the instrument being cranked up? 3) $3-400 for an expression pedal?? What am I missing here? That's only relevant to full time "organists", right? I mean, most of my rock career, even touring my C3, the pedal stayed mostly to the metal, as it were! So, knowing that, can I get by with the much cheaper Yammie pedal or even a Roland? Quite a few pedals should work. Look for one with a long arc of travel for finer Expression control. You might have to select different settings in the Expression parameters depending on the polarity of the pedal and also flip a switch on the pedal. Finally, if anyone has time, do I just add the latest updates? (using my thumb drive, ready to format, 4 GB)or is there another first step? With the original couple of updates there could be issues with the type of memory used in the USB drives. If yours was loading as you stated above your USB drive was probably working OK. It took a long time for updates to complete because all the System files and libraries were re-loaded during the updates. One of the recent updates changed that so now only files that have been changed are updated. Also, the issue with the memory was fixed so that both types of memory should work. If you are interested, here is some information on the types of memory: SLC vs MLC memory If anyone can help with these questions, I thank you in advance, and I throw good organ karma your way- "may your left and right Leslies get that COOL throbbing, slightly, out-of-sync sound, just for your best solo! John Good Luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baD mR fRosTy Posted December 23, 2013 Author Share Posted December 23, 2013 ""Is the instrument distorting or is the input of the amp slipping due to the instrument being cranked up?"" I am not sure the difference? It remains even if I turn the amp down, I know that much. Where do most keyboardist run their volumes? I heard one guy say 10 o'clock? That seems low to me...but at 12 the breaking up stops. I'm going to try an FC-7. I'm sure it will be fine for me. I am a rock/pop keyboardist more than an "organist". Hey, thanks for the advice...I am going to try the organ now, it finished just before I went to bed this morning, but I just shut if off at hit the sack... John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sven Golly Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 ""Is the instrument distorting or is the input of the amp slipping due to the instrument being cranked up?"" I am not sure the difference? It remains even if I turn the amp down, I know that much. The difference is where in the gain stage you're causing the distortion. Based on your statement, you are overdriving the input to the amplifier. Turn down the keyboard until the distortion is completely gone, then turn the amplifier up until the volume is where you need it. As to "where do most keyboardist (sic) run their volume" that has absolutely ZERO bearing unless you're using the exact same gear as those other keyboardists. There's no single setting, here. Google "gain staging" to understand the theory behind connecting your instrument to your amp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baD mR fRosTy Posted December 23, 2013 Author Share Posted December 23, 2013 OK, the flash seems to have worked. I now get: ""MAIN 1.513", that is the newest I assume ( I got it from the H/S page)? I also have other "VERSIONS", such as "PRESET 1.106, ACOUSTIC PIANO 1.3) etc. The "hiss" is still there...but really only under the abnormal condition of my amp turned up full - so the "signal to noise" ratio, to kinda misuse that term, is acceptable to me. If I were to pound out a chord at that volume, it would be a distorted mess...and not the 'good" kind of distortion. The volume of the keyboard does not seem to have an effect on the hiss....just that of the amp/monitors. Switching to a better amp, I see that the "breaking up" was in my studio monitors, although THAT it is definitely elminated by choosing 12 o'clock over 5! One thing it DID seem to fix, is that the organ seems a faster touch...more like the one I fell in love with at the store. See, I bought this used one, the guy had had it for a year, but had only had it set up, he tells me, for 3 weeks! So it was mint. The understanding was, that I could return it if there was a problem, within the first few days - simply because we did not have a way to test it at the time. So, you can understand why I wanted to get any issues addressed asap. When I got it home, I couldn't riff quite as quickly or easily as the store unit - but I put that down to the latter having been 'broken in" by X numbers of one-day greats and wannabee Jimmy Smiths and Jon Lords. But, I think the updates had more to do with it...it's smokin' again! I honestly can live with the "hiss"...although, to be fair, I can understand the frustrations of those that can now only HEAR the hiss when ever they play a lot of note, very quietly! As I said, I have head much worse over the years...including my C3 which grumbles and farts and snaps the longer it stays on, lol...kinda like me. Just reading the Read-mes now to see if there are any more Easter Eggs in there! Add me to the list of folks who absolutely love this organ. I don't think I will sell my VK-8M just yet though...I still need/love its ring modulator. perhaps I can use it, and a controller keyboard to build Frankenstein's C3: two manuals/two drawbars... I HAVE found that when the SK-1 overdriven sounds first begin to cut in...even on the "Rock" preset 1...it's a bit digital/solid state sounding...but once it's cranked I find it more than enough juice for my Ken Hensley impressions! And I just now discovered, thanks to this forum, the "clip" overdrive, which is just what is needed for OTT Jon Lord sounds, in his "pre-Leslie" days: In Rock and Machine Head. AND, I still have yet to take this thing from my living room out to the studio and run it through my Trek II and 122! So, you can imagine, I'm a pretty happy camper so far, hiss, buzz, zaps et al... ;-) Time to go over it some more...thanks again JMcS... John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baD mR fRosTy Posted December 23, 2013 Author Share Posted December 23, 2013 ""As to "where do most keyboardist (sic) run their volume" that has absolutely ZERO bearing unless you're using the exact same gear as those other keyboardists. There's no single setting, here."' Aiieee, I got (sic)'ed! :-) Will do, thanks for the advice. I am a reformed "cranker", who no longer assumes everything sounds best wide open: it's a keyboard, not a hydroplane!! Google (big sweaty soundmen) to find out where that rumour got started, lol. In the past, I never encountered this problem...I suppose because "back then" many keyboards had "high/low" switches (like my Jupiter), or even separate outputs (as in the case of many of my CS-series analog synths)...and so, I suppose I've probably played with some degree of distortion without even knowing it, lol, for a brief period in the 90's. Mind you, I swapped between my namesake techno bad, and a glut of progressive hard rock bands, neither in which it would have made much difference! The first synth I got where it was readily apparent that you can't just crank every board to 11, was my Yamaha Motif ES. It distorts so badly on certain patches, mostly piano, that I now have a piece of duct tape that prevents the slider volume from passing about 80% - although you can see it get stretched as the night progresses; I simply do not have the self-control to keep that volume down! A jig was needed... ;-) Again, thanks for the reply... John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcS Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 The SK-1 has a Ring Modulator for the organ. It also has one for the Extra Voices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcS Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 Also, download a copy of the manual if all you have is the one that came with your SK-1. The updated manual has information about many of the enhancements added in the 7 OS releases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baD mR fRosTy Posted December 23, 2013 Author Share Posted December 23, 2013 ""The SK-1 has a Ring Modulator for the organ. It also has one for the Extra Voices."" Wicked! Great news. Will dl revised manual tonight - yes I have just the original, plus the Read me's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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