LP Standard refret

[SEHpicker]

OK. I guess I can't put it off any longer. Bending strings (which I do a lot) on my LP is becomming a problem. Frets are almost flat in certain places. I found a reputable luthier about an hour away thats been doing this for 30 years. He worked for Gibson previously. I feel confident that he can do the job right. However, the frets will no longer be inside the binding. He says it finishes out very nicely and will not be an issue for playability or aesthetically. I'd have to ship to Gibson to avoid this and they charge over $500. My local guy will do it for $300 using silver/nickel wire.

Any thoughts, suggestions, warnings?

[simus35]

me i will take Gibson,because they will use the plek machine

[pinkjimiphoton]

ummmm...i'd get a second opinion, 90% of the time all ya need is a level and crown, which should run you 100 bux or less. even what seems to be a substantial weardown can often be corrected without replacing the frets.

 

can you measure the smallest (most worn) area in mm's? i'm curious... i have guitars i've played hard for years, and i've never had to do a refret on any of them (yet)...a simple level and crown is all it takes.

 

i mean even for SEVERELY worn frets.

 

that said, i'll take a human artisan doing a setup over a machine every time. plek'd guitars are becoming more common, but it's a generic setup imho.

 

it's all about YOU, the PLAYER....not some computer optimizing something...

 

feel is too intangible to translate to a computer.

[Bartholomew]

My tech did medium jumbo frets and I had the fretboard levelled on a 74 Les Paul Custom. Cost me $300 but that was about 15 years back. It's the best playing guitar I ever had.

 

The binding gets cracked when the frets are replaced so you have to ask yourself if you want a player or a museum piece that someone might dump anyways after you croak, no insult intended.

 

Sorry to be blunt but that's the usual bottom line I've seen lately so I just fix them, play them and have fun cause I'm never selling anyways. Let my Estate worry about value cause I don't care.

 

I bought a new Gibson Les Paul Studio that was done on the plek machine and am of the opinion that a good luthier can do as well or better.

 

It's close to perfect but doesn't have that magical feel that "Liberatore" in Montreal does.

[SEHpicker]

ummmm...i'd get a second opinion, 90% of the time all ya need is a level and crown, which should run you 100 bux or less. even what seems to be a substantial weardown can often be corrected without replacing the frets.

 

can you measure the smallest (most worn) area in mm's? i'm curious... i have guitars i've played hard for years, and i've never had to do a refret on any of them (yet)...a simple level and crown is all it takes.

 

i mean even for SEVERELY worn frets.

 

that said, i'll take a human artisan doing a setup over a machine every time. plek'd guitars are becoming more common, but it's a generic setup imho.

 

it's all about YOU, the PLAYER....not some computer optimizing something...

 

feel is too intangible to translate to a computer.

 

Jimi, I hope I can get away with just a level & crown. That would certainly be my preference. I don't like the idea of refretting but that may ultimately be necessary. I'll let you know. Thanks for the advice. I've never had to have a guitar refretted before.

[Sharkman]

Something else you might wish to consider is getting stainless steel frets, instead of the traditional nickel silver. Over on Carvin.com, we've been discussing stainless steel frets, and the overwhelming majority (everybody except one guy) prefer stainless steel frets.

[SEHpicker]

My tech did medium jumbo frets and I had the fretboard levelled on a 74 Les Paul Custom. Cost me $300 but that was about 15 years back. It's the best playing guitar I ever had.

 

The binding gets cracked when the frets are replaced so you have to ask yourself if you want a player or a museum piece that someone might dump anyways after you croak, no insult intended.

 

Sorry to be blunt but that's the usual bottom line I've seen lately so I just fix them, play them and have fun cause I'm never selling anyways. Let my Estate worry about value cause I don't care.

 

I bought a new Gibson Les Paul Studio that was done on the plek machine and am of the opinion that a good luthier can do as well or better.

 

It's close to perfect but doesn't have that magical feel that "Liberatore" in Montreal does.

 

Yes, I feel the same way Bart - I'll never sell this guitar so I don't really care if cracking the binding with new frets lowers it's "all original" value. But - I'm hoping Jimi's suggestion will give me a couple more years of play before I'm forced to get er done.

[pinkjimiphoton]

think about it...the lower the fret height, the faster you can rip. high frets are only good for bending...tho they can add a bit of sustain on some guitars.

 

lower frets also seem to improve intonation, where as jumbos can make you play sharp.

 

while i prefer the traditional nickel frets (and my 66 firebird still has it's original frets, and i've had to do two recrowns in the 30+ years i've owned it) stainless steel does have a couple advantages...sorta. they don't wear as quickly, but wipe out strings faster...they're imho more prone to "nicks" that require re-crowning, they sound and "feel" different...not as warm.

 

you can replace frets on a bound fingerboard, and even replace the little "nibs" on the end without damaging the guitar if the tech is worth their salt. most people just let the fret overhang the binding slightly, which looks fine in most cases...if you really want the original "nib", where the binding covers the outer points of the fret, that can be replaced as well...dan erlewine at stew mac has a great article about fixing that.

 

you NEED to have the guitar playable, and unless you intend to have a museum quality showpiece, things are gonna get worn...just the nature of the beast. yes, repairs may lower resale value, but if you're gonna play the thing, what's more important? leaving a perfect guitar behind when you vacate your meat puppet, or having a screaming righteous axe while you still drive that puppet around?

 

things wear out. replace with the highest quality parts you can afford, and keep the originals for if and when the guitar is re-sold.

 

replacement frets shouldn't affect the value too much unless the piece is already a vintage original issue axe.

 

jmo...again, YMMV

[Caevan O’Shite]

you can replace frets on a bound fingerboard, and even replace the little "nibs" on the end without damaging the guitar if the tech is worth their salt. most people just let the fret overhang the binding slightly, which looks fine in most cases...if you really want the original "nib", where the binding covers the outer points of the fret, that can be replaced as well...dan erlewine at stew mac has a great article about fixing that.

 

Yhup.

 

For me, the fret-end "nibs" are important for the feel of the neck and fretboard- the sides are much smoother, and my picking-hand finger-nails don't get snagged under the edges of the ends of the frets.

 

you NEED to have the guitar playable, and unless you intend to have a museum quality showpiece, things are gonna get worn...just the nature of the beast. yes, repairs may lower resale value, but if you're gonna play the thing, what's more important?

 

 

things wear out. replace with the highest quality parts you can afford, and keep the originals for if and when the guitar is re-sold.

 

replacement frets shouldn't affect the value too much unless the piece is already a vintage original issue axe.

 

jmo...again, YMMV

 

Agreed.

[pinkjimiphoton]

why, thank ya suh!

[SEHpicker]

Good advice guys. Thanks!

Jimi - as mentioned in my reply to Bart, having a playable instrument is much more important to me than maintaining it's original status - even though it's 22 yrs old.

All my other guitars have the frets exposed at the edge, so that doesn't bother me as long as I can't feel them. When I first got my custom made Carvin DC150, I could feel the frets snagging all up and down the neck. I sent it back to Carvin and they fixed it right away with apologies and it plays beautifully now. But my LP is my main go-to guitar so I want it as playable as possible. And, aside from the fret issue, it does play like butter with incredible tone and sustain. Also, on the stainless steel frets, most people I've talked to say that SS frets make a big difference in tone - for the worse. Harsher and tinnier were the words one luthier used. I love the warm, round tones I get from my LP so I'll stick with the silver/nickel wire if it comes to that. I'll let you know how this turns out in a couple weeks.

[pinkjimiphoton]

sweet, bro.

[Larryz]

Since you do a lot of string bending which wears frets faster, it might be a good idea to investigate stainless steel frets as already suggested to avoid wear and tear...not sure if stainless frets will wear your strings out a little faster or not as do not own a guitar with stainless...but I've heard they sound great and hold up very well...filing those fret ends for a smooth feel on the neck edges, will make you forget about the binding loss...

[Bartholomew]

Would also caution you to be careful about what size frets go in there - if you decide to re-do it.

 

I just received a new Gibson LP Studio with humbuckers and an ebony fretboard ordered online sight-unseen. Can't get ebony in Canada.

 

The frets are really large - takes some getting used to - damn railroad tracks.

 

Now I like to bend strings as much as anyone else but those high frets are a bit much, not really required.

[pinkjimiphoton]

i hear ya bart..

 

high frets are ok on a strat with a medium action and heavier strings, but on a les paul they're like tite shoes.

 

i like wide/low frets on les pauls, but that's just me...you can REALLY get the action down there so ya can play fast, i just think you can feel it better.

 

i tend to keep my action just high enough to play slide on without being too buzzy...if it's too low, or the frets too high, i tend to stumble more.

 

my brother easton tho, he sets his stuff up with such a fast action i can't even play the things...super low. i like some meat.

[Bartholomew]

I guess the "fretless-wonder" Les Paul is a thing of the past.

 

Younger players seem unable to bend on thin frets and a smaller radius so the guitars must sell better with skinny strings and big frets.

 

A good pool player can win using a banana - guess the younger guys don't have any chops for the most part.

[pinkjimiphoton]

well, i dunno if they have no chops bro, i think they just don't know any better...all they seem to do is what they're told by magazines and gurus and us old timers that they barely understand.

 

it's a different world out there...we learned, we loved, we struggled to become guitar players...they play fuggin' video games.

 

it's like tone...people buy junk because they're told it sounds great, rather than trying stuff to see what resonates with THEM.

 

i mean, for me, the epitome of great tone can be just a strat and a fuzzface...i can get a lot out of that...but most kids these days just push buttons on the multieffect units they buy preloaded with sounds that aren't useful, then trade it in and buy the next wonder.

 

you or me could take an old les paul and make it sing...most of the kids wouldn't even be able to play it. it's a cryin' shame.

 

i remember a couple years ago a guy came over to my old drummer's house, and "really wanted to jam" but all we had for a spare amp was a solid state 1x15 hunnert watt crate...

 

he "couldn't play thru that, it has no tone"...so i put him thru my rig, and i played thru the crate...and had a blast.

 

dear lord...sorry for the rant, but it's true...a good pool player can probably use a damn coconut and still win.

[SEHpicker]

I guess the "fretless-wonder" Les Paul is a thing of the past.

 

Younger players seem unable to bend on thin frets and a smaller radius so the guitars must sell better with skinny strings and big frets.

 

A good pool player can win using a banana - guess the younger guys don't have any chops for the most part.

 

Hmmm... not sure where you are coming from on that one Bart. I know many "young" players that can make a guitar sing with rusty .008s and a SS amp from Radio Shack. Youth has nothin to do with who's got chops and who doesn't IMHO. Yes, years of experience helps but many of the GREAT players made their mark while in their twenties.

Personally, I've used .011s for 45 years and have my guitars set up with medium action... Like Jimi, I play a lot of slide as well so I don't like the action too low.

[Bartholomew]

To re-phrase: there are an awful lot of younger players on the telecaster forums complaining about having problems bending with skinny frets and a 7.25 Fender radius.

 

So Fender is shipping them with .09 these days - to sell more product cause they're easy to play. And the Modern Player series has a 9.5 inch radius.

 

I use .11 on Gibson and .10 or .11 on a vintage Fender & never knew it was difficult. I've also worked with skinny strings and an SS amp but no way will it ever replace tubes and heavier strings for what I do.

[SEHpicker]

Thanks for the clarification on that Bart. I agree that there are a lot of less experienced players that don't understand the advantages of a proper set-up and heavier strings. I'm so used to .11s that it would take some time for me to get comfortable with lighter ones. I've tried em but the feel and tone just isn't the same. Many good players are uncomfortable with a heavier guage but it's really all in your head. If you take the high E string out of the equation, you are bending and playing heavier guages all the time. If you can bend your B or G string easily, then you can bend a high E at a heavier guage.

[pinkjimiphoton]

i have run bone-stock .009 to .042's for virtually the last...god, ever since i knew they existed. easily close to 40 years at least.

 

i like lighter strings on a strat, and heavier on a gibson...depends on the model tho, i like a lighter string on the firebirds, but the sg's seem to feel better with 10's or 11's.

 

but i'm too poor these days to mix n match, so i just buy boxes of .009-.042's and put 'em on everything.

 

but i used to LOVE black diamonds, and i think those were a .013 for a high e when i started.

 

to me? i don't like the tone as much with heavier strings...yes, you get more volume, but to my ear, you have to back off the pickup height to eliminate double tones (humbuckers as well as singlecoils) which kind of negates the volume boost.

 

it really depends on the guitar in an ideal world, at least to me.

[Winston Psmith]

i like lighter strings on a strat, and heavier on a gibson...depends on the model tho, i like a lighter string on the firebirds, but the sg's seem to feel better with 10's or 11's.

 

My experience has been just the reverse, Jimi. I've had a couple of Strats over time, and always loved their sound with an .011 - .049 set, with a wrapped 'G' - made them really sing. It seems like the bolt-on necks are more forgiving, too. On my SG, I tend to stick with .009's or .010's. especially since I was warned by a Gibson guy not to try .011's on the modern SG's. I had an LP Standard some years back that didn't do well with .011's, either.

 

To Bart's point about new Fenders shipping with .009's, I can assure you, it's not just Fender. In the shop where I worked, it seemed most of the guitars coming out of Asia were shipping with .009 sets. As far as what players were actually using on their guitars, I rarely sold a set of electric .011's to anyone under 35 - the same applied to .012 and .013 sets for acoustic guitars. I almost never sold anything heavier than a .011 set, for acoustics. Flatwounds? None of the younger players had any idea what they were for.

 

FWIW, some old-school players really hate the modern nickel-plated steel strings for electric guitars. Among their complaints is increased fret wear. A while back, I took Caevan's advice, and switched over to DR Pure Blues, which are pure nickel. I can't swear they're improved the life of my frets (maybe check back with me in five or ten years), but I like the sound and feel of the nickel strings.

[Scott Fraser]

A while back, I took Caevan's advice, and switched over to DR Pure Blues, which are pure nickel. I can't swear they're improved the life of my frets (maybe check back with me in five or ten years), but I like the sound and feel of the nickel strings.

 

I too took Caevan's advice on the DR Pure Blues & I have them on all my electrics now, archtops as well as solid bodies. They seem to maintain that new string feel for quite a long time. My sense is one of less friction with these strings.

[pinkjimiphoton]

i used to use "big marty" strings in the 70's...had a set on one guitar for over 5 years. pure nickel.

 

that's why they don't make pure nickel anymore...they never break or go dead, and stay in tune...no profit in 'em!!

[Larryz]

10-47's and I like a wound 3rd...I run the same guage on both acoustic and electric...