Mark LaCoste Posted November 22, 2003 Share Posted November 22, 2003 I must be missing key information in my understanding of wordclock. I have a hammerfall lite card. It is Wordclock master. An 01V digital mixer is slaved, receiving WC through its ADAT optical input. Now I'm adding a little card to my hammerfall so it won't be lite anymore. It adds another set of ADAT lightpipe and BNC connectors for wordclock. My question is, what are these BNC things for? Anyone using this card is using ADAT lightpipe or SPDIF, both of which already carry lightpipe, right? I must be soooo confused. I look on the back of my Alesis QS8 keyboard and there is a BNC in addition to lightpipe... What is it for? Rubber Lizard Studio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halljams Posted November 22, 2003 Share Posted November 22, 2003 The BNC connectors are probably the best way to run wordclock from one device to another. That's what they are for. I would recommend getting a WC cable under 15 feet(a good one) and using those connections for your word connection instead of through your light pipe adat connection. If you get 2 cables you can choose at any time which will be the master and which will be the slave. Sometimes converters sound better or different with different clock sources. Bob Katz recommends always using the clock that came with your converters as it is most likely optimized specifically for the converters. If you are using the mixer (ov1 as a front end) to convert the audio from analog to digital you should be using it's clock as master. But do some experiments with drums and acoustic guitars to see which way sounds best. You may be surprised at the differences. Check out SUPERVIBE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark LaCoste Posted November 22, 2003 Author Share Posted November 22, 2003 Yep-pers, Halljams, that's what I'd like to do... lessee... ummm... the friggin 01V doesn't have a BRC connector. It has "digital audio in/out" which are RCA jacks, I guess that's SPDIF, and of course there are the ADAT optical things. Do I need RG58 cable with BRC on one end and RCA on the other? I'd like to do the experiment you mentioned. I've heard many times that the 01V suffers from jitter and is improved by a more stable clock. Maybe I'll just go play music. Rubber Lizard Studio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halljams Posted November 22, 2003 Share Posted November 22, 2003 If your Yamaha mixer doesn't even work properly with it's own clock AND doesn't have word clock connections i suggest you sell it immediately and go get yourself a professional digital mixer like the panasonic DA7 for just a few bucks. Then everything will be OK in your world. Check out SUPERVIBE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark LaCoste Posted November 22, 2003 Author Share Posted November 22, 2003 That's not it at all. This mixer works perfectly with its own wc, perfectly as a wc slave receiving wc through ADAT optical. In fact my hammerfall card has a limitation that it MUST be wc master. No problem, that's how I run it all the time. But I've heard many times from reliable sources (on this board, like Lee) that the 01V sounds better when you slave it to a better wc. Now, maybe it *does* sound better than it would if I didn't slave to the hammerfall, I'll never know unless I do comparisons like what you recommended (ac. guitar, drums) so maybe today in my free time (insert eye roll here)... It sounded like you thought the BNC connectors might be a better way to do word clock than others. I thought about that (actually I didn't, I slept on it, hoping I'd get better grockage in the morning) and have managed the following razor-sharp insight: Some folks have much more complex studios than I do. All of my audio data travells via ADAT lightpipe, but if I used mixed formats from other A/D converters I would need a way to get wc to those devices... and it could get dicey if every device was getting wc in a different way (spdif, adat) so having them all use the BNC wire would be best. Upshot: I'm glad I now have that capability for the future but my friggin 01V doesn't have the right connection for it. Thanks, Halljams, for helping me understand! Now, back to our regular programming... (I need to make an avatar with a rodent in it) Rubber Lizard Studio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip OKeefe Posted November 23, 2003 Share Posted November 23, 2003 The original 01V didn't have BNC word clock connectors, but since word clock data is embedded in the S/PDIF and ADAT lightpipe data streams, you can continue to keep everything connected the way you have it now. You can also experiment with the S/PDIF out on your Hammerfall into the S/PDIF in on the 01V and see if you hear any improvement in the clocking - you're looking / listening for things like improved stereo imaging, a tighter bottom end and a more natural top end. But you may not hear much of anything when comparing ADAT to S/PDIF. I'd say that Lightpipe is probably the least desireable word clock source, followed by coax S/PDIF and then by BNC. You can NOT connect your BNC jack on the Hammerfall to your S/PDIF port on the Yamaha, even with adapters. You need a master word clock source for every digitally connected / interfaced device in your studio. If you only have a couple / few devices, then daisy chaining them is fine. But ideally you'd want a seperate master word clock generator such as the Lucid GENx6 and connect everything via BNC cables. This is when you usually start to hear a noticeable improvement in the sonics of everything. Oh, and the new 01V96 DOES have word clock I/O on BNC connectors. And it's a significant sonic improvement over the previous model. I love mine. :love: :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark LaCoste Posted November 23, 2003 Author Share Posted November 23, 2003 Hi, Phil! That is exactly the kind of information I needed. I am preparing to hook up the SPDIF as you suggest, just need the right cable, a coax with RCA ends. A new mixer isn't in my future, at least not forseeable, but my current setup is just great! Maybe I'd learn this stuff faster if I had more time to spend in the studio, but right now I gotta clean this house before the Little Woman gets home. OW, my henpeck is sore. Thanks again, Phil. Rubber Lizard Studio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip OKeefe Posted November 23, 2003 Share Posted November 23, 2003 Mark, make sure you get a 75 Ohm S/PDIF cable and not an audio RCA -> RCA cable. It's going to cost more, but you really have to use the right cable with word clock to avoid problems. Best of luck with your setup - let us know when you get it alll completed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TB-AV Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 Hi Mark: Radio Shack has a cable that works well on the s/pdif it's about $10 and it's orange, so it's pretty easy to spot on the shelf and in the studio. I'm supprised the Hamerfall light has to be Master. I have the Digiface and it can Master or Slave. I also have had the 01V and it works great with the clock running over s/pdif or ADAT. As a matter of fact. I have seen Matthias C. from RME mention on the newsgroup that there is no real reason to use the BNC unless you are going to video. I just jumped over to RME and looked up the HammerFall Lite. It looks to have the similar configuration interface that I have. It does not appear to have any limitation of having to be master. Just click the autosync button. Then it listens for an external sync. So you could use the V as master. Tom B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark LaCoste Posted November 24, 2003 Author Share Posted November 24, 2003 TB-AV, Thanks for your help! I'll check out that s/pdif cable at Radio Shack. I've added a board to my hammerfall card that provides 4 analog inputs -- the model is AEB4-I -- and the manual says that if this card is installed, he hammerfall must be master in order to avoid a word clock loop. It's been no problem, the 01V follows along just fine. Meanwhile, I've recalled that Craig Anderton wrote an article on syncronization. Think I'll look it up. Rubber Lizard Studio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TB-AV Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 OK, I see. I didn't realize the add-on would force it to master. If that's the case, all you really have to know or concern yourself with is making sure everything else is set to SLAVE. You can have only ONE timeing master and that will be the RME. Also be aware that if the V looses the RME signal for any reason is will flash a warning message. It can also put some really nasty clock noise on your monitors as it re-syncs. So keep an eye on your output. I basically used my RME as the master all the time. It was just easier. No problems. TB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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