Ross Brown Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 There are a million reasons for feedback... I know... can one of them be a PA that is wearing out? Seems to be getting worse. "When I take a stroll down Jackass Lane it is usually to see someone that is already there" Mrs. Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thabottomend Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Is the PA tubed? I'm old enough to remember my Fender Bassman starting to squeal when the tubes went bad. Do not be deceived by, nor take lightly, this particular bit of musicianship one simply describes as "bass". - Lowell George "The music moves me, it just moves me ugly." William H. Macy in "Wild Hogs" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thabottomend Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Is the PA tubed? I'm old enough to remember my Fender Bassman starting to squeal when the tubes went bad. Do not be deceived by, nor take lightly, this particular bit of musicianship one simply describes as "bass". - Lowell George "The music moves me, it just moves me ugly." William H. Macy in "Wild Hogs" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Gollihur Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Doubtful, assuming you haven't noticed any changes in the fidelity of the sound from the speakers. You've probably already done this, but check every little switch and knob that you figure is in the place it usually is; I remember fighting with a bass amp that just wouldn't sound as good as usual... until during the second set I noticed the "EQ in" pushbutton had accidentally been disengaged. 1000 Upright Bass Links, Luthier Directory, Teacher Directory - http://www.gollihurmusic.com/links.cfm [highlight] - Life is too short for bad tone - [/highlight] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seamy ALB Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Where is the feed back happening at Ross and what is going through the pa? Is it in the same room or is it in different locations? What gear are you using and what way is the channel strip set up? http://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Little-Bitter/185235472447 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Brown Posted October 10, 2011 Author Share Posted October 10, 2011 Vocals only. We made a bunch of mistakes with the positioning of speakers, amp and monitors last time that I won't go into. I think the problem is just this... bad positioning. Or the PA is under powered (probably not) or PA is failing. The thing is that we seem to have issues everytime, in different rooms, even with good positioning. What do you mean by channel strip set up? It is a Carvin 6 channel PA. I don;t have it here so I don;t have the model etc... One of the folks in the band proposed the idea that it may be just getting old. I thought I'd ask if that was a reasonable possibility. I voted no, but thought I'd still ask this elite group. "When I take a stroll down Jackass Lane it is usually to see someone that is already there" Mrs. Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seamy ALB Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 This is a channel strip: http://www.images2.co.uk/extended/SC026520_dual_stereo_channels.jpg If you could show me the way that you set the eq that would be the place to start sorting the feedback. The type of microphones being used, the direction of monitors and the reflections of sound in a room all impact. The mic's need to be behind the main outs and where possible not a large amount of rebound. Masters should be set at 0 or plus 5 and channel faders shouldn't be pushed past the Master level. This causes "gain ramping" which causes feedback. If there are low end cuts these should be on. The bass eq should be cut back also, this will allow a lot more volume before feedback begins. Fire up the make and model Ross this will help diagnosis & cure!! http://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Little-Bitter/185235472447 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Capasso Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 My experience has been that some rooms/setups are very difficult to work. I played a room that was just too noisy, and we had no physical space - I couldn't keep the volume loud enough without feeding back. I didn't mess with the EQ (along with the 3-band on the channel strip I have a total EQ) because I was struggling with - everything (playing, setup, etc.). Sorry - I know that isn't very helpful. www.stoneflyrocks.com Acoustic Color Be practical as well as generous in your ideals. Keep your eyes on the stars and keep your feet on the ground. - Theodore Roosevelt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bear Jew Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 It's not just about the PA speaker positioning. You need to tune your PA to the room by opening up each mic independently and turning that channel up until it feeds back. Once you reach that point, mess with the EQ until you find the frequency that is feeding back... pull that frequency back until it stops. Then move on to the next one. When you're done, you should be able to have your PA running loud and clear without feeding back. It's not a really fun process, but you will get better at it as you do it more often. \m/ Erik "To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists of breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting." --Sun Tzu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Brown Posted October 12, 2011 Author Share Posted October 12, 2011 Thanks so far everyone. I am trying to get the person in the band that is responsible for the PA to engage in this conversation. She will but is just busy right now. That said, I am a big proponent of having someone dedicated to setting up and running sound so that band members can focus on playing. This is a bit of a point of contention. I am willing to cut them in or pay or whatever we need to do. Not gotten buy in on that yet. Last gig I mentioned that I would rather not play than deal with the feedback and crappy sound... We came to an agreement that if we could not figure it out ourselves, then I would be listened to. Fair.... Small (low paying) gigs I agree that it doesn't make sense. Bigger gigs... I won't do without pro or at least dedicated sound managment. If I heard the feedback we had last gig, I would leave if I were in the crowd... It makes me crazy and hurts my ears... "When I take a stroll down Jackass Lane it is usually to see someone that is already there" Mrs. Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cthulhu Fhtagn Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 How loud are your monitors? I'm pushing a pair of chee-pazz Kustom 10s and my guitar player is deaf in one ear. Example of soundcheck: BL: Turn the monitors up, I can't hear them Me: They're all the way up on B channel BL: Turn the master volume up. Me: Any louder and we'll feed back. BL: Turn them up! Me: (profanity under my breath, turn up the master) BL: We're feeding back!!! Sound like the 4K. Turn the 4K down. Me: (profanity under my breath, turn down the 4K) BL: I'm getting a mid-range honk. Turn down the 2K and the 1K. Me: (need I repeat?) BL: It's boomy. Turn down the 250 and the 500. Me: (ditto) BL: It's tinny. Drop the 4K. Me: () BL: Turn the monitors up, I can't hear them Or, you can get a cloclhear implant for your guitarist. Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seamy ALB Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 For hearing loss the only way around that is in rehearsal set up the monitor and find out which freq he can still hear and push those while pulling the low end rumble out. Eric's approach is the correct one. Although I will say that a wee 6-10 channel Pa amp head will get it tight playing over a live band. The headroom just isn't there for that kind of moderately loud gig. A desk, 1000 watt poweramp & matching speakers is the least I would go with such a set up. On small gigs it is good to be able to run the desk, its good economics if nothing else & 1 less person to manage! http://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Little-Bitter/185235472447 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Has anything obvious changed? Maybe the guitarist is using a different amp or the drummer has new heads. If not, has anything obvious blown? We had problems where the drummer complained he couldn't hear the bass properly through the PA and we started to look at getting subs. I couldn't understand what had changed and set up the PA and ran it at home, only to find that the tweeters had blown. This destroyed the definition and was making us turn up all sorts of unrelated things in an effort to get round it. Set up the PA and run a CD through it and check all the kobs are still working properly. Feel the groove internally within your own creativity. - fingertalkin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pauly5 Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 We usually don't have a problem, but when we do I just cut down on the highs a little and that usually takes care of it. I think, but not sure, that we get some when one of our guys steps away from his mic and it picks up heavy cymbal work from the drummer. This may go back to the highs on the EQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Dan Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 In addition to overall stage volume, mic position relative to amps/drums can be a contributing factor as well. Example: if a guitar amp is firing into a vocal mic, then turning up that vocal also turns up the guitar. Boosting that vocal in the monitors doesn't help because it can't overcome th guitar - it just adds feedback. See if you can isolate whether the feedback is coming from monitors or PA by muting each to see if the feedback disappears. In terms of stage layout, angling amps across stage, or at least such that the mics don't pick them up as much is helpful. Drums are trickier, and cymbals can be a big offender. Try to get the drummer to play more quietly. Overall, the lower the stage volume, the better - because it offers the most control over the sound by the PA, and monitors. Dan Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Brown Posted October 14, 2011 Author Share Posted October 14, 2011 Try to get the drummer to play more quietly. Hhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha................ "When I take a stroll down Jackass Lane it is usually to see someone that is already there" Mrs. Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Brown Posted October 14, 2011 Author Share Posted October 14, 2011 We had multiple issues. Some was just dumb amp and speaker placement, some was volume.... on and on and on... My OP was really about is feedback also a potential symptom of a failing PA? I do think we are underpowered also. I do think we need a better set up for each gig (ie dial in each mic). We are going to call the manufacturer of the PA also (Carvin). Sometimes they can be helpful. Thanks everyone!! "When I take a stroll down Jackass Lane it is usually to see someone that is already there" Mrs. Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul K Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Try to get the drummer to play more quietly. Hhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha................ I know, right? But I have had some success with packing a pair of hot rod sticks in my bag for the drummer who always "forgot" his. Under $20, and worth a shot. Just be sure to get them back at the end of the night. Things are just the way they are, and they're only going to get worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Dan Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 We had multiple issues. Some was just dumb amp and speaker placement, some was volume.... on and on and on... My OP was really about is feedback also a potential symptom of a failing PA? I do think we are underpowered also. I do think we need a better set up for each gig (ie dial in each mic). We are going to call the manufacturer of the PA also (Carvin). Sometimes they can be helpful. Thanks everyone!! I would say no - an aging PA wouldn't typically increase feedback. One exception was we once had a microphone that got damaged and tended to feedback more - but I think that would be rare. Dan Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Brown Posted October 14, 2011 Author Share Posted October 14, 2011 cool "When I take a stroll down Jackass Lane it is usually to see someone that is already there" Mrs. Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Capasso Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Any follow up on this?We have monitor feedback due to loud volume and placement at times, but anything I can learn is appreciated. www.stoneflyrocks.com Acoustic Color Be practical as well as generous in your ideals. Keep your eyes on the stars and keep your feet on the ground. - Theodore Roosevelt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Brown Posted November 11, 2011 Author Share Posted November 11, 2011 PA is fine. I moved the bass amp in relation to the mics. Singer bought a wireless mic that has more punch to it and allows her to move about. We are having much less problem... She avoids getting near the amps.... I think the problems came back to our set up... The simplest things can hang us up sometimes..... "When I take a stroll down Jackass Lane it is usually to see someone that is already there" Mrs. Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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