Drop D tuning

[Bottom End]

I didn't realize that one of the guitar players on the team was looking at me to figure out what he should be playing instead of the chart.

 

Been there, done that.

[plankspanker13]

It helps to have perfect pitch, which I do, a Hipshot Xtender, and a good octave divider. There is no 5er currently in my arsenal, although there have been in the past. I would want 19.5mm string spacing, a J-like spacing at the nut, and a thinnish neck profile, with 34" scale and versatile pickups/electronics, and have yet to find a production 5er that satisfies. The closest was an Ibby Ergodyne 905, but I hated the look, and the smell of the luthite body. The ergonomics and sound were great. I could slap the hell out of it, like a 4-banger.

 

It boils down to having the instrument that aids you in doing what you do predominantly. 4 is enough for me.

[duff beer]

Stevie Ray Vaughan was always tuned to Eb. I've never heard anyone complain about his sound.

 

SRV used heavy gauge strings, so tuning to Eb would have not have affected the sound.

[_Sweet Willie_]

Right! So it's not only about downtuning, it's also about string gauge and other factors. Judging downtuning solely on its own and out of context of factors that affect the physics immediately (like string gauge) or the fuller soundscape(how freqs are represented across band members) seems overly simplistic.

 

Peace.

--SW

 

[jeremy c]

Stevie Ray Vaughan was always tuned to Eb. I've never heard anyone complain about his sound.

 

SRV used heavy gauge strings, so tuning to Eb would have not have affected the sound.

 

Yes, but I'm sure Tommy Shannon played normal gauge bass strings.

 

Jimi Hendrix also played tuned down and he used light gauge strings. People are still trying to figure out how he got his sound. I'm also sure that Noel Redding and Billy Cox used normal bass strings.

[Mark Schmieder]

Of course, if you set up the bass for drop-tuning, and use different gauge strings, it can be fine (although not ideal -- you will almost always lose some focus to the harmonics). I'm talking about bands that play instruments where they go back and forth, or instruments that can't handle the drop-tuning (which is most). And the bands like Muse etc. are definitely not my cup of tea.

 

I've never needed to drop-tune as I use five-string basses except when covering vintage material (pre-80's). I am talking about what I hear out there with local bands and some top acts.

[Mark Schmieder]

I think Macca's style changed due to the Rick sound. He was still using both the Rick and the Hofner for awhile, until probably White Album. Chris Squier also was heavily influenced tonally by the sound of the Rick, in terms of higher neck playing.

 

Macca does occasionally use a five-string -- at least since Wings broke up. I think during the Wings era he was still strictly four-string.

[EddiePlaysBass]

I'm not sure I'd attribute a band sounding awful to down-tuning. In some cases perhaps it's a contributing feature, but I'm guessing that in most cases there are likely other factors coming into play regarding musicianship, tonal ranges emphasized across all instruments, etc. that are more salient.

 

I would agree. I thought down tuning a half step or whatever actually fattens up the sound. Stevie Ray's sound always sounded full to me but he had great tone. If your tone is mudd it'll sound like mud no matter the tuning.

 

 

Hmmm, one of our guitarists suggested that we tune down half a step. No real reason, he just wanted to try it. What I do not get is, he said we would then be able to play Rory Gallagher's "Bad Penny". It is in Dm but our singer said this particular track is too high for him so we dropped. I asked why we should bother downtuning and suggested playing it in C#m but he said that if we play it in C#m the whole effect of the song is gone.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but if we play in Eb instead of E, and they play "Dm" it is actually a C#m, no? I don't get it. Either way I don't think I will tune down with them, just rethink all my bass lines really thoroughly.

 

Another one I like: I mailed the other guitarist about a particular song, saying it was in G# to which he replied: "No, it's in A but they tune down half a step." Throw at me all the theory you want, but I heard a G# ... Still, we ended up playing that song in A :grin:

[The Geoff]

I'll probably get shot down in flames here, but.....

 

I play both bass & guitar.

 

[puts on guitarist hat...]

 

I'm assuming, as has Bottom End (I think) that the 'Drop D tuning' referred to is DADGBE. In my experience, many young guitarists & bassists assume this to be DGCFAD and *still* call a 1st position 'E' shape as 'E' even though it's actually 'D'.

 

One of the big probs you come across, which is caused by this, is when you download tabs then try & play along with the track. Often you find you are a semitone or tone sharp, as the downtuning hasn't been taken into account when writing down the chord names.

 

Similarly, if some has done who *does* know about these things, you'll end up looking at an off-putting set of chords in #'s and b's.

 

Now this is OK if everyone understands what things really are & ought to be, but unfortunately there's a lot of ignorance in my area about this. It wouldn't be the first time I've sat down with a few young guys & taken them through the why's & wherefore's of it all. It didn't change a thing about how they played, but at least they were better educated about what they were actually doing.

 

As for downtuning & heavier gauge strings, there's a section of players who believe that the more metal that is vibrating above the pickup, then the better the tone will be (I don't think bassists worry too much about that one ). This may (or not) explain the use of downtuned 12s or 13s (SRV?) as the reduced tension allows for easier bends.

 

However, many players (BluesApe - Mod in the Guitar Forum) seem to sound just great using 8's. Go figure. Personally I use 10-52's in standard tuning as I play mainly chords & I like a bit of tension.

 

I also thing there's a few who downtune out of laziness rather than learn some new chords......

 

And I agree that some intros/riff just don't sound right unless played around a particular chord shape - capo!

 

[/Guitarist's Hat]

 

[bassist Hat]

 

I tend to play a lot of Open Mic nights, so I like to stay in standard tuning.

 

I play 5ers so if I'm playing with downtuners I just move down a fret or two on the B string as my root, as I treat the 5th fret 'E' on the 'B' as my normal reference point - I tend to play across the fretboard rather than up & down - it suits my short reach.

 

I reckon if you play a 4 & the rest of the band has tuned down a semitone or a full tone, you may as well follow suit, but I'd be looking at a 105 or a 110 bottom E set of strings for that.

 

A few years ago I played in a Blues Band who's singer did a lot of stuff in 'G' or 'D'.

 

I ended up with a fretted & a fretless both tuned BEAD with a 125 or a 130 'B' (bottom 4 of a 5 set). Worked for that.

 

[/bassist Hat]

 

G.

[Cthulhu Fhtagn]

The classic rock band tunes everything down a half step. As the singer got older (and never quit smoking), he lost the highs in his voice. Rather than learning to play everything in a lower key, we just dropped.

 

Since a lot of what we do is in "G" or "A" and some "E", it makes sense.

[EddiePlaysBass]

Since a lot of what we do is in "G" or "A" and some "E", it makes sense.

 

We are all over the place as far as the keys of songs go. A good deal in A (it's blues, after all) but a good bit of E, a couple in G and one or two in F - which the guitarists do not like.

 

I hate the idea of retuning my bass for rehearsals and gigs, and I'll be damned if I get another bass to leave in dropped tuning. I guess if we go that route, the Squier will become my default band bass, and I will become a rather active 4-string player again.

 

But that was another thread

[The Bear Jew]

I used to play in Drop D a lot. In fact, that was the "standard" tuning for a few of my past bands. It's not a big deal--it's just a tuning style. It's not like you have to go to a different place of worship or anything.

 

If you're smart (or just take a few minutes to think about things), you can figure out how to play anything in that tuning. Similarly, you can stay in regular tuning and figure out how to play along with guitarists (or bassists) who use Drop D. Your fingerings just won't be the same. It's not rocket surgery--you just have to think a little and be willing to jump around the neck a bit more... unless you play a fiver. Then you do something else. I don't what that would be because I never owned a fiver. You probably have to click the heels of your ruby slippers together or something.

 

I found that a lot of bands used the Drop D tuning because the low D string allows guitarists to play 5th chords with one finger, which makes them sound... erm... heavy. Some people think of this as cheating because it's easier to create a thicker sound with less effort. And it's also easier to do some chord changes that would be fairly difficult to pull off in standard tuning. Personally, I think it's only cheating if you write boring songs. Soundgarden has a lot of songs in Drop D (and other non-standard tunings), but none of that material seems like those guys are cheating to me. Also, who cares?

 

As a bassist dealing with guitarists who like Drop D, I don't really see it as a problem to change tuning in the middle of the set. It's one string. Once again, this is why they invented muting tuner pedals.

[EddiePlaysBass]

I hijacked Ross' thread because I didn't want to create a different one If it were just drop D, I would have no qualms whatsoever: I play a 5 and have never retuned for drop D songs.

 

What the blues band wants to do is tune Eb Ab Db Gb (and in my case Bb as well). This idea, I am less fond of, because it would mean that I would either:

 

- permanently tune my 5'er to Eb

- tune my 5'er to Eb for every rehearsal / gig

- take the Squier and permanently tune it to Eb

- can't take my upright to gigs unless I tune it to Eb

 

Truthfully, this is all just me being a cry baby and being afraid of doing something different and stepping out of my comfort zone. I am leaning towards playing everything on the 5 in standard tuning - there are only a few songs where I play open strings and I guess I can learn to deal with those

[Ross Brown]

I can re-tune faster than a guitard. I can change instruments on stage just as fast as a guitard. I can play with out re-tuning, but lose the open strings I like, but can do it. If I can, you certainly can... you crybaby...

 

 

I don't change anything when the guitard drop D tunes. Just play what is needed.

[EddiePlaysBass]

If I can, you certainly can... you crybaby...

 

 

I don't change anything when the guitard drop D tunes. Just play what is needed.

 

I just spent a good two hours practising: I put the Tascam unit a semitone lower, but kept the 5-string in standard tuning. With the exception of one song, where I actually forgot the bass line altogether, it went surprisingly smooth. No open strings, though ...

 

That said, I am going to take the Squier too, and tune that one down to Eb, and switch between the Fender (in E) and the Squier (in Eb) depending on the songs (but not too often) Should be fun!

[The Bear Jew]

Having said all this (and acting at devil's advocate)...

 

Some stuff does require matched tuning between guitar and bass to sound right. Some unison riffs just don't sound as cool when they're reconfigured in different positions. Sure, you can play "Outshined" by Soundgarden without re-tuning your bass to Drop D, but it doesn't sound quite as bad-ass unless you have that open string D. Same thing with a bunch of other riff-based songs. And no, fretting that D on the low B of a fiver doesn't sound the same as an open string. Sorry. It doesn't. Yes, it's the same note. Nobody's saying it's not the same not, but open strings DO sound different from fretted notes. Search your heart for the truth on this one. You know I'm right.

 

So... sometimes you have to de-tune to make things work. Life is hard, and sometimes we all have to do things we don't feel like doing. Wash the sand out of your hoo-ha and get on with the business of rocking.

[Tenstrum]

That's why I drop D on my fiver. It sounds better to me and other people as well.

[Wally Malone]

That's why I own a Kubicki!

 

Wally

[Tenstrum]

Awesome!

[EddiePlaysBass]

So... sometimes you have to de-tune to make things work.

 

True that. If it turns out that Eb is the way to go, then my Squier will get a set of heavier gauge strings (flatwounds!!) and a permanent Eb tuning.

 

Here's to Saturday coming around quickly!