Connecting Yamaha P-series keyboards to amps

[wetwonder]

I'm looking at one of the lighter keyboards, ranging from the P60 to the P95. None seems to have a 1/4" out for an amp lead. They do all have a 1/4" headphone out. Can the headphone port be used to get the output to an amp?

Thanks,

Dave

[Sven Golly]

Can the headphone port be used to get the output to an amp?

 

Yes. Get a TRS 1/4" male to 2x TS 1/4" male cable (aka a "Y" cable) to take the stereo feed to your amp.

[AnotherScott]

I'm looking at one of the lighter keyboards, ranging from the P60 to the P95. None seems to have a 1/4" out for an amp lead. They do all have a 1/4" headphone out. Can the headphone port be used to get the output to an amp?

Thanks,

Dave

Sven is right as far as he goes, but there's more to consider.

 

First, make sure you pay attention to the wiring of the cable, don't just ask for a Y cable. Sven is correct about the TRS/TS distinction, but not everyone understands that, and the cables aren't necessarily labeled that way. The problem is that there are three flavors of Y-cables that can all look the same until you examine the ends. Some split a mono signal into two mono signals, some split a stereo signal into two stereo signals, and what you need is something that splits a stereo signal into two mono signals (left and right). Referring to it a a "stereo splitter cable" rather than a "y cable" may help. Of course, Sven never has to deal with any of that, since he only runs mono. ;-)

 

Also, personally, I would not suggest getting 3 male ends as he did. I think you are better off getting a short cable with a male on one end that splits to two females, then use regular guitar cables from there into your amp. I understand the benefit of Sven's approach... some people just hate using any kind of adapter, it adds another potential point of failure. But the advantage of an adapter in this case is that you can use any pair of guitar cables to get any length you might need, as opposed to be "stuck" with whatever length splitter you get. I would get two of the splitter cables so you always have a spare, and then mate them with commonly available guitar cables as needed. I would keep the splitters short, like maybe 12", and definitely not long enough such that their junction point to the guitar cable will lie on the floor, where they can easily get stepped on. Also, I'd go with the flexible dangling kind, as opposed to the hard-piece-of-plastic kind, since those little non flexible ones are the ones that are more prone to creating failures if they get knocked into while plugged into the instrument.

 

 

 

[Jeff_D_in_MD]

If you will be running mono, you might as well plug a mono cable into the stereo headphone Jack and let its internal circuitry take care of the summing to mono.

 

EDIT: Maybe not. I thought I read somewhere that summing to mono would automatically happen, with a diagram explaining the technique, but I can't find it anymore.

[ITGITC]

 

My vote?

 

Keep it simple.

 

Yeah.

 

 

TRS(Tip-Ring-Sleeve)-Dual 1/4" Patch Cable

http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/regular/8/8/5/415885.jpg

 

KLONK

 

 

[ITGITC]

If you will be running mono, you might as well plug a mono cable into the stereo headphone Jack and let its internal circuitry take care of the summing to mono.

 

Nope. Then the mono 1/4" plug will short ring to ground.

 

You want a stereo 1/4" plug going into the headphone jack.

[AnotherScott]

My vote?

 

Keep it simple.

 

Yeah.

 

 

TRS(Tip-Ring-Sleeve)-Dual 1/4" Patch Cable

 

Yup, as long as you're sure that the one length you get is the only length you'll ever need, that's fine.

[Jeff_D_in_MD]

Maybe the diagram I saw was about the opposite situation, describing how a stereo input jack could accept either stereo or mono input plugs, and in the latter case would automatically send the same signal to both Left and Right.

[wetwonder]

Thanks guys.

 

Is there a way to turn the signal from the headphones jack to mono so I could run one lead to the amp or mixing board? I want to use the keys for gigging, and it would be easier in those situations to use a mono connection.

[AnotherScott]

I'm looking at one of the lighter keyboards, ranging from the P60 to the P95.

p.s. -- the P60 is older, and not so light, did you possibly mean the NP-V60?

[Sven Golly]

Thanks guys.

 

Is there a way to turn the signal from the headphones jack to mono so I could run one lead to the amp or mixing board? I want to use the keys for gigging, and it would be easier in those situations to use a mono connection.

 

Only plug one in.

[Sven Golly]

Sven is right as far as he goes, but there's more to consider.

 

Sue me, I posted from my iPhone.

[AnotherScott]

Is there a way to turn the signal from the headphones jack to mono so I could run one lead to the amp or mixing board? I want to use the keys for gigging, and it would be easier in those situations to use a mono connection.

 

You could take the cable discussed above and then add a mono 1/4" y-cable (2 mono in to 1 mono out) to merge the two (get whichever genders you need). Most sounds collapse okay to mono, some don't, so you'll have to make sure it sounds okay.

 

Using just one of the two for mono as Sven suggested (with snax, and presumably from his iphone) can work as an acceptable compromise in some situations. Again, listen to the results and see if it sounds okay. If the actual sounds you're using on the instrument are mono, it will be fine; if they're stereo, they may or may not be okay that way. If your keyboard allows you to pan its sounds completely to one side, that can be useful here too.

[Sven Golly]

You could take the cable discussed above and then add a mono 1/4" y-cable (2 mono in to 1 mono out) to merge the two (get whichever genders you need). Most sounds collapse okay to mono, some don't, so you'll have to make sure it sounds okay.

 

What? Absolutely not!

 

Live Sound 101; Y cables are for splitting, not merging.

[JeffLearman]

Thanks guys.

 

Is there a way to turn the signal from the headphones jack to mono so I could run one lead to the amp or mixing board? I want to use the keys for gigging, and it would be easier in those situations to use a mono connection.

 

Only plug one in.

I agree.

 

The other option is a stereo-to-mono adaptor, which shorts Tip and Ring together. For example, this one, but the other side is RCA which isn't ideal (you'd need an RCA cable and another adaptor at the other end).

 

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062466

 

Note: beware of Radio Shack product names. The folks writing them have no idea what the gear is for and make lots of mistakes. Pay more attention to the picture & detailed description.

[AnotherScott]

Absolutely not!

 

Live Sound 101; Y cables are for splitting, not merging.

 

Although I have, on occasion, merged signals with a Y to no obviously disastrous effect, I will defer to Sven!

[wetwonder]

I'm looking at one of the lighter keyboards, ranging from the P60 to the P95.

p.s. -- the P60 is older, and not so light, did you possibly mean the NP-V60?

 

I meant lighter than the higher end dig pianos. Light relatively speaking - meaning 30 to 40 pounds or so.

[Nicky]

wow

[wetwonder]

Thanks guys.

 

Is there a way to turn the signal from the headphones jack to mono so I could run one lead to the amp or mixing board? I want to use the keys for gigging, and it would be easier in those situations to use a mono connection.

 

Only plug one in.

 

When you suggest to "plug one in," do you mean to just run a mono instrument lead into the headphone jack on the piano and into the amp input on the other end? I just want to be clear b/c these futuristic technical terms befuddle me. I'm challenged in that area.

 

I wasn't sure from whether that could be done and just want to make sure there is a way to make an amp connection before buying the keyboard - probably the p95.

 

Thanks.

 

[AnotherScott]

When you suggest to "plug one in," do you mean to just run a mono instrument lead into the headphone jack on the piano and into the amp input on the other end? I just want to be clear b/c these futuristic technical terms befuddle me. I'm challenged in that area.

 

I wasn't sure from whether that could be done and just want to make sure there is a way to make an amp connection before buying the keyboard - probably the p95.

 

Yes, although I was thinking of just using one side of the Y, right, you don't have to use the Y at all, you can just run a plain guitar cable from the headphone jack to your amp, and you'll get "one side" of the stereo output of the instrument, which will generally get you something passable. If you do it with the Y, you would have the option of picking either side, in case the "other" side sounds better.

[JeffLearman]

You could take the cable discussed above and then add a mono 1/4" y-cable (2 mono in to 1 mono out) to merge the two (get whichever genders you need). Most sounds collapse okay to mono, some don't, so you'll have to make sure it sounds okay.

 

What? Absolutely not!

 

Live Sound 101; Y cables are for splitting, not merging.

Sven is mostly correct here, especially for older line level outputs.

 

I remember the TEAC gear I got back in the 70's and early 80's used to warn about this specifically: not using a Y cable as a "poor man's mixer" and not plugging an output into another output, referring to line level outputs. Doing this causes the two outputs to fight each other, leading to current drain that exceeds the design capacity of the circuit.

 

I believe, however, that circuits are no longer this fragile.

 

After all: how does a line level mixer work? It simply adds a small resistor on each fork and Y's them, with another op-amp to bring it back up to line level -- typically only a 6dB bump, if I'm to believe line level diagrams I've seen for mixers.

 

Now, headphone outputs used to be very different from line outputs: more like small power amps. But today, they're just line outputs beefed up to handle lower impedance loads and source more current.

 

Still, like Sven, I don't do it. But, how long has it been since we've seen that warning on new gear? They don't even specify an output's "minimum load impedance" or "maximum load impedance" (synonymous terms, oddly enough). That used to be very important, to know how many times we could Y an output to various inputs.

 

Then again, a lot of important specs are left out these days. Maybe Sven is right, after all. ;-)

[wetwonder]

So then then the splitter to left and right, then a reverse splitter with left and right stereo changing it to a single mono output is the way to go? I'd have to get into radioshack.com and figure out those parts. The folks working at radioshack stores here don't know that much.

[ITGITC]

My vote?

 

Keep it simple.

 

Yeah.

[Sven Golly]

Using a splitter cable has nothing to do with impedance, or circuitry, but is rather about phase issues... c.f. every mono vs. stereo thread that we've had around here for the last few years.

 

[theGman]

Just buy one Y cable of each type mentioned above, plus a few female 1/4 cable extenders, throw them in a pile and try each combination. Sweetwater has free freight. You might need the unused Y cables some day. Maybe. :-)

[AnotherScott]

Using a splitter cable has nothing to do with impedance, or circuitry, but is rather about phase issues... c.f. every mono vs. stereo thread that we've had around here for the last few years.

 

 

Forgetting the Y-cable thing for a moment, just in general, combining left and right signals into a mono signal *can* create phase issues, but it does not *always* create phase issues.

 

Now, if you're saying that you can't use a Y-cable to combine signals because it will create phase issues, then wouldn't the same signals combined properly through a mixer (i.e. panned together) also create phase problems? Yet we know that often it does not, many stereo signals sound just fine summed to mono in a mixer.

 

So if you have two signals which cleanly sum to mono through a mixer, but there is still a problem using a Y-cable, then it sounds like the problem with a Y-cable would have to be something other than phase, no?

 

As I said, I've done it without incident. I can accept that maybe I've been lucky. But if there is something bad that can happen with a Y cable that cannot happen through a mixer, it sounds like impedance is a more likely culprit than phase. Maybe someone else can chime in here with more definitive info.

[wetwonder]

I'd be grateful if someone could tell me the solution, with authority. Use imperatives. Yelling is OK. I'd like to get the signal from the headphone out to a mono input on an amp. I appreciate everyone's input, yet there are several different ideas in the thread on how I should go. I understand "keep it simple" ITGITC, but that cable you posted has two leads going out. I'm looking for one lead out to the amp. Thanks.

[ITGITC]

I understand "keep it simple" ITGITC, but that cable you posted has two leads going out. I'm looking for one lead out to the amp. Thanks.

 

Use just one or the other. Stay with the one that sounds best.

[JpScoey]

I'd be grateful if someone could tell me the solution...

 

I'm looking for one lead out to the amp. Thanks.

 

 

OK - here we go!

 

I used to, very briefly, own a Yamaha P85 (the older-style version)

 

The headphone socket DOES act as a stereo output jack - but it is a mini-jack, & VERY flimsy.

 

It also plugged in just below the keys on the front of the keyboard,

 

so was susceptible to being easily brushed-against/knocked etc.

 

This led to numerous occasions when the signal was 'crackling' at best, or cut-out completely.

 

I sent it back to Yamaha *twice* for so-called repair, but the fact is that it's not up to the job...

 

After much frustration & wasting a lot of time, I got a refund.

 

 

If it's for home use only, staying in a permanent place, you should be sort-of OK...

 

(the built-in speakers are sh*te), so external amp is, IMO, essential.

 

but if you're thinking of moving around to rehearsals/gigs etc I'd say DON'T GO THERE .....

 

AN ACCIDENT WAITING TO HAPPEN

[AnotherScott]

I'd be grateful if someone could tell me the solution, with authority. Use imperatives. Yelling is OK. I'd like to get the signal from the headphone out to a mono input on an amp. I appreciate everyone's input, yet there are several different ideas in the thread on how I should go. I understand "keep it simple" ITGITC, but that cable you posted has two leads going out. I'm looking for one lead out to the amp. Thanks.

 

You can use one lead out from the keyboard to the amp. It will definitely work, the limitation is that you'll only get one side. If you use a splitter cable, you can do the same thing, except you can pick which of the two sides is the one that you think sounds better by itself.

 

As for somehow combining both sides to mono, the "right" way is to use a mixer, the questionable way is to use a Y-cable... but regardless, not all stereo sounds sound good when combined to mono, so even if you do it the right way with a mixer, you won't know for certain how well it works until you try it. Sometimes it sounds better to just use one side of a stereo output rather than combining them. And this is true on instruments that have separate stereo outputs too, it's not just a limitation caused by the fact that the instruments you're looking at only have the combined headphone output.

 

Back to an earlier message, here is an example of the kind of cable I'd prefer to use, to give you easy access to either side, at whatever length you need:

 

http://www.hosatech.com/product/340438/YPP-117/_/Stereo_Breakout,_14_in_TRS_to_Dual_14_in_TSF

 

http://www.hosatech.com/dimg/thm/t350_9e5640ff8aee815ba0eb2199cc39c456.jpg