Duh!

[zephonic]

After years of frustration with my pianistic ineptitude I suddenly figured out why my solos sound so stiff and clumsy. Cubase MIDI was set by default to 480ppq and that is simply not accurate enough for soloing!

 

I did a test this evening with recording audio and MIDI simultaneously and the audio sounded fine and groovy while the MIDI sounded awkward!

Increased resolution to 1920 ppq and that was a lot better but still not as tight as the actual audio. Will increase to 3840 ppq tomorrow but have had enough for today.

 

Hey, it only took me 3 years to figure this out, and now I'm thinking maybe I don't suck as bad as I thought I did.

 

What a friggin' waste of time. Sometimes I'd think that I'd done a great solo and upon playback it just sounded lame. I lost count of how many times I've redone solos over and over again just because the feel I had while playing wasn't there upon playback!

 

[ITGITC]

...and now I'm thinking maybe I don't suck as bad as I thought I did.

 

Excellent!

 

Lots of folks self medicate just to get to the same head-space.

[marino]

...You were recording your solos in MIDI?!?

 

 

[JeffLearman]

hmmm

 

480 PPQ is about 2 msec per pulse.

 

MIDI hardware (using MIDI cables, not USB) incurs a minimum 1 ms latency. (More for the last note in a chord.)

 

Sound travels about a foot per msec.

 

Do you notice problems whenever playing via a MIDI cable?

Do you notice problems if the speaker of your keyboard is more than 2 feet from your ears?

 

I confess I'm a bit skeptical. However, maybe Cubase doesn't actually live up to its numbers, and at 480 PPQ you're actually getting less resolution for some reason.

 

Yes, I know, latency is different from quantization errors, but it gives us a bit of a frame of reference. For example, if you play a 6-note chord through a MIDI cable, hitting all keys at the exact same time, the last note follows the first by 5 msec. How often do we hear people complaining about that? I don't often hear people who complain about a rack unit when they like the same product in a keyboard. I think this is a clue that the 1 ms per not MIDI delay is not a big issue.

 

Also, if you're happy, you're happy. My arguments are theory, yours are practice. (Of course, yours are also subject to suggestion, which is surprisingly powerful.)

 

So, I'm skeptical, but I'm not convinced you're nuts! Not yet anyway. If Tom agrees with you, then I'll know for sure you're nuts. ;-)

 

In my experience, discrepancies below 5 msec change the tone but not the apparent timing. And then, only when playing very tight and in the pocket with other instruments -- not so much for solos.

[Mike Warren]

Maybe I could improve my recording if I set it to 1ppq. Who needs more than 4 notes per bar anyway.

[zephonic]

...You were recording your solos in MIDI?!?

 

 

I know!

[zephonic]

hmmm

 

480 PPQ is about 2 msec per pulse.

 

Could be, but I thought that was tempo-dependent as well.

 

I confess I'm a bit skeptical. However, maybe Cubase doesn't actually live up to its numbers, and at 480 PPQ you're actually getting less resolution for some reason.

 

I was skeptical too. Thats why I never bothered to change it, I thought 480PPQ was accurate beyond perception.

 

Yes, I know, latency is different from quantization errors, but it gives us a bit of a frame of reference. For example, if you play a 6-note chord through a MIDI cable, hitting all keys at the exact same time, the last note follows the first by 5 msec.

 

I think rounding errors is the issue here, not latency. Cubase has to place the notes on the 480ppq grid, and drops it on the spot nearest to where you played it. My guess would be that all those tiny shifts in time have an accumulative effect and make the playback sound different.

 

Also, if you're happy, you're happy. My arguments are theory, yours are practice. (Of course, yours are also subject to suggestion, which is surprisingly powerful.)

 

I am certainly no stranger to the powers of self-delusion!

 

In my experience, discrepancies below 5 msec change the tone but not the apparent timing. And then, only when playing very tight and in the pocket with other instruments -- not so much for solos.

 

I would say that this true for drums or other sounds with sharp transients. Again, Im not arguing that I can hear sub-ms timing differences, but I think the inevitable randomization that takes place in MIDI does produce perceptible differences.

 

This could be a Cubase thing. Its much better now than it used to be, but in the VST days it had really sloppy timing. Thats why so many guys switched to Logic back then, which was a lot tighter (and groovier). Again, Cubase is better now, but the sequencer in my Fantom X7 is definitely spunkier.

 

Increasing the MIDI resolution helped, but it was not as tight as audio.

[midinut]

Where exactly is this setting of which you speak. Now you got me wondering what mine is set at. I'm running Cubase 5 and if I look at File>Preferences>MIDI are you talking about the MIDI Max. Feedback in ms at the bottom of the screen? Or is what you're referring to somewhere else?

 

I haven't been having any timing issues that I'm aware of. You just have me curious now...