Is the quality of a demo important?

[Ross Brown]

Seems like this question might have an obvious answer but I am not sure.

 

How important is the quality of the demo in order to get gigs?

 

I am not talking about musical quality. I mean studio verse less than great mixing/recording. I am trying to make a point to my band that it is time to make a better demo. Ours is home brew. We had a studio demo but we out grew that one musically. Since i do most of the work trying to get gigs, and we are trying to expand our market, I am trying to get buy in for some studio time. Guitarist is in. The rest have not responded yet. It is probably a money thing that would hold them back...

 

The flip side of the coin is that we already are a moderately busy band playing almost every week. I want to get some new venues and more regional gigs with better pay.

 

 

[jcadmus]

It depends on what you mean by "quality" -- even within the homebrew category, quality can vary widely. Likewise for studio recordings.

 

I would say a good-quality homebrew demo -- clear sound, can hear everything reasonably well, eq'd well, little or no noise or hum, etc. --is probably adequate for what you're doing. You're just trying to give club owners a sense of how you sound -- not trying to land a record deal.

[5 string Mike]

Here's how I would approach it-

 

A demo is like a resume- if you want to be considered for a job, the first impression someone usually gets of you is the quality of your resume. Usually the higher caliber of job, the more scrutiny is paid to a resume and it's structure.

 

To me, if you want to get higher caliber gigs, a good quality demo would go a long ways to geting people to take your band more seriously.

 

For example, I heard the CD that a band from our corporate law department put together for Corporate Battle of the Bands, and it was a poor quality. It wasn't mixed well at all, the vocals sounded dry, the tone of the instruments was not very dynamic, it just didn't sound good. Needless to say, they didn't make the cut.

 

I would think a good quality demo is a major factor in the difference between 'these guys sound ok' and 'these guys rock'.

[BillWelcome Home Studios]

Guys in bands always seem to want to go one of two ways... either spend nothing on a crap demo that hides what they are capable of doing, or going with balls to the wall production with so many bells and whistles that it is clear that it would be impossible for the band to duplicate on stage.

 

Pick a middle ground... good clean recordings of the band playing, without a lot of BS, effects, or autotune.

 

Also, for a demo, most people are not going to sit and listen to 55 minutes of the best of your band. I try to keep demos down to three songs tops, and not songs with long intros or solos, and I do a crossfade mix about a minute, minute and a half of some punchy key pieces of the three songs and lead off with that.

[jcadmus]

 

Also, for a demo, most people are not going to sit and listen to 55 minutes of the best of your band. I try to keep demos down to three songs tops, and not songs with long intros or solos, and I do a crossfade mix about a minute, minute and a half of some punchy key pieces of the three songs and lead off with that.

 

This.

[Ross Brown]

Thanks. Yes, I put together nice clips about that long. That is plenty. BTW, we never use autotune. My other band put together a nice demo and I am proud of the way it sounds. Just sounds like us but mixed well.

 

Each time I have made a good demo in a studio we took several hours to record and mix. Nothing fancy. We come prepared and don't sweat the small stuff. The studio I work with now gives me a project quote so we don't have to watch the clock as much. With that, we respect his time.

 

I think a good sounding demo is important but maybe not... I once got a gig from a bar owner that asked me "are you any good"? I said yes, we played the gig and got rebooked. He never listened to the demo.

[picker]

My band did some multi-track recordings of the band at live gigs, and were able to make some pretty decent sounding demos out of them. With all the recording stuff that is available reasonably cheap, you can get not only a good sounding recording, you can show a bar owner exactly how you sound live.

 

...hmmm...that may or may not be a good thing...

[Nicklab]

Absolutely. You're using a demo in order to get work. It's a business investment for the explicit purpose of getting more work in order to make more money. And like any business investment there should be cost/benefit considerations.

 

So what's a reasonable expense? I've got a friend with a studio that's fully capable of making indie records who charges about $50 - $70 / hour. I would plan on a three song demo, but record four tunes. Figure it would take two blockout days to make your demo. One day to record, and one day to mix (provided you guys are prepared). That's about 16 - 20 hours of studio time. That could cost anywhere between $800 - $1400.

 

The question you then have to ask is this: is that $800 - $1400 going to lead to enough work to pay for itself over the course of a couple of months? And will it lead to even more work so that it makes money for the band? If your band makes $400 a night a $1400 demo pays for itself in 3 1/2 gigs. But this is with the provision that this new demo helps you break into new venues that you had not already been playing.

 

Oh, and regarding autotune? It's not the most terrible thing in the world. If you have a singer who's having a hard time with one or two notes it is not the end of the world to do some minor fixing with autotune. The only problems I have with autotune are when it's used like an effect or a singer needs to use it like a crutch.

[Ross Brown]

Thanks. Our singer never misses a note. I, on the other hand, would cause the autotune to exploded.

 

I agree with the cost benefit thing and I have been doing the math, etc. I have brought up with the band that if we want to expand our venue base, we need to address several other things too. New lights (so you can actually see us and we look like we are "the show" vs "furniture"). I suggested that we don't "look" like every other classic rock band (tee shirts and jeans) and that we move our butts a little when putting on a show. Most suggestions received well. No answers, but agreement at least...

[WCriley]

In my area, the bar owners don't listen to demo CDs. They've been burnt too many times by studio production that sounds nothing like the live performance.

 

If they do listen to demo recording, it's to get feel for the type of music a band plays. They insist on hearing the band during an actual performance before hiring them for the first time.

[Tim T]

"If they do listen to demo recording, it's to get feel for the type of music a band plays. They insist on hearing the band during an actual performance before hiring them for the first time."

 

----I've had club managers insist on a promo pack and then claim they didn't have time to look at it....same with the demo disk.

We have, however, been hired twice on the strength of the demo.

We don't audition.....we have plenty of references (other club managers), and if the manager can't be bothered to check them or listen to the disk, it's time to move on...

 

[Ross Brown]

I think it is interesting when the claim they don't have time to listen to a demo. I have a very busy work schedule too. I do every thing that is priority to me... hmmm... I have found that it is less about time than timing... some have specific times of the week, month or year that they listen to demos and book bands. You have to know when that is because they rarely keep your demo around for long....

 

Turns out that I get the feeling that the drummer in our band is not interested in spending the money to make a new demo. I'll give it some time....

[Tim T]

---Yeah, but that's the thing...I ask when I can drop it off and when I can call back...I call back, and they haven't listened to any of it....why demand a promo pack if you're not going to read it? I'd much rather that they tell us no up front for whatever excuse ( we run five bands in rotation, ect)... then to keep leading us on till we get disgusted and give up.....it must be in the bar manager dna....

[WCriley]

We don't audition.....we have plenty of references (other club managers), and if the manager can't be bothered to check them or listen to the disk, it's time to move on...

 

My band doesn't audition, either.

But we will drop our price for the first night in a new place.

[Tim T]

---Indeed, often we'll drop the price in exchange for a bar tab..or play 2 sets instead of 4....

[Mark Schmieder]

IN my experience, the answer to your question is HUGELY different depending on whether you are an originals band or a cover band (and also which genre). Maybe I missed it, but I didn't spot any inferences after reading your posts.

 

For cover bands, the main thing that matters is the energy, not the quality of the recording itself. Video demos are WAY preferred to audio-only demos, and should include some shots of an excited audience dancing or otherwise being participatory.

 

For originals, I think things are changing such that similar rules apply, but probably more attention to the production values as they don't know the song yet and are looking to judge the material as well as the typical reaction you get or what your stage energy is like.

[Tom Capasso]

In 2005 we recorded in a studio in an "almost live" format (only background vox were overdubbed). We did 14 full songs, and I cut snippets out so we could provide either.

 

To the best of my knowledge, only one club owner wanted the full. No one asked for the snippets, but they are on our website.

 

The recording was a positive experience as a historical testament, but we haven't recouped more than a fraction of the (quite reasonable) cost.

 

Tom

[Nicklab]

Alright, so your drummer is a cheap ****. We get it.

 

Here's another angle: web video. It can take some trial and error, but try taking videos of your sets. Getting a decent sound mix might be tough.

 

But presenting a web video is a new angle on the demo. You don't have to press copies. You start your own YouTube channel and post a handful of videos. Send links to those videos to bookers via email and they MAY actually check it out.

 

[Eric VB]

Front for the drummer and put him on a payment plan.

 

Ask Alice recorded and mixed our 4 song demo in a studio in one session; it was mastered the next day. While we do hand out PKs the demos have probably gotten us more gigs from online plays. (I get calls for gigs from people who say "I like your sound" after they discover us online.) [The demos are not perfect but they get the job done.]

 

Venues want to see at least 2 of 3 things from a cover band: huge draw, great sound or great stage show. If you're filling venues by dressing like slobs and standing in the dark like statues while delivering awesome sound then don't sweat the stage show.

 

But why settle? Get some lights, buy some cool threads and really sell the music by acting excited about it on stage. You may end up getting booked at better venues for better pay.

 

I want to improve our light show but I just bankrolled a $1,000 PA upgrade, so unless someone else steps up it will have to wait.

[Eric VB]

Here's another angle: web video. It can take some trial and error, but try taking videos of your sets. Getting a decent sound mix might be tough.

I like video but I wasn't really happy with what we got from a single handheld (tripod or not). With the way big name music videos are shot, edited and produced a single camera tends to look amateurish; like a grade school play.

 

If you go video I would suggest hiring a small company to do it for you.

 

While the sound from the handheld wasn't terrible it was always blown out. We were trying to come up with a way to muffle the sound entering the microphone but then lost interest when we saw the video results.

[Nicklab]

Doing a decent video definitely presents it's own challenges. And it could probably cost at least as much as a conventional demo. That is unless you've got friends who do that sort of thing. What's startling though is you can put together something that looks amazing on any laptop with some basic video editing software. Obviously though, you're going to need good camera work and a better than average sound track in order for it to all come together for the final product. But, I think something like this is much more likely to grab a club booker's attention than another CD and press kit.

[Ross Brown]

I am lucky to get then to listen to a demo. Would they really take the time to watch a video...?

[Nicklab]

How often do you watch a video on youtube that someone sends you in email? If you're communicating with bookers via email it's a perfect opportunity to get them to watch your video.

[Ross Brown]

e mail.... bar owners...? One bar we we play has no phone....

 

 

[Ross Brown]

Seriously, it is a good idea for expanding our base. New venues and all... Right now I am focusing on a better demo though.

[Nicklab]

e mail.... bar owners...? One bar we we play has no phone....

 

 

Oh. I forgot, you're in the nether regions of Pennsylvania. That sparse 300 mile wide span between the civilized areas.

[Ross Brown]

e mail.... bar owners...? One bar we we play has no phone....

 

 

Oh. I forgot, you're in the nether regions of Pennsylvania. That sparse 300 mile wide span between the civilized areas.

 

yes... very Arkansas"ish". Much like a good bit of Jersey too...

[Paul K]

My experience is mostly with booking bars, not weddings and the like where the real money is. That said, I've never had anybody actually listen to the discs I've dropped off and/or mailed off. None. Not one. Our current disc sounds great; yet the last guy said (and I quote verbatim), "Well, you know, you really can't get a good idea how you really sound on the disc."

 

Well, you sure can't if you just look at it. You've got to put it in the CD tray and hit "play".....Good news is that he hired us anyway. But still. Another said the disc didn't play. It did at my house in my 20 years old player. Maybe he didn't put the shiny side down?

[Bass Bastard]

Not much to add to this list of good commentary but this:

 

I have some pretty horrible discs and tapes from bands I have played with. We had some good music and energy happening on the original and cover side. Unfortunately, all those memories sound alot better than the recordings.

 

With my latest band, everything has been done as perfect as possible and still have that raw feel to it. We are all original and are writing to get our own thing down. We do make money, but do it fo the love of writing. This is music I want to be 60 and still be proud of recording.

 

So do it as much for what it can get you as for the memories. In 10 years it may not matter if you got that wedding gig or luncheon at Honeywell. It will matter that you can hold a CD or DVD in your hand and say to your friends and family "I did this".