Playing open strings vs. ease of transposition?

[Groove Mama]

What's your philosophy on the ease of playing open strings vs. the ease of transposition? (In other words, using open strings vs. no open strings or, at least, as few open strings as possible so that your fingering pattern remains the same when moving to a different key.)

 

My teacher advocates the no-open-strings approach, and I can certainly see the benefit. Just wondering how others feel about it.

 

(Except, of course, for guys like Jeremy, for whom open-string transposition is no big whoop. :-)

[jeremy c]

It's obviously easier to transpose if you don't have open strings in your part. Unless the part goes off the bottom of the bass when transposed. In those cases, a five string is a big help.

 

If you bought a Line 6 Variax bass, you could press a button, just like some keyboard players. However, this bass was discontinued because hardly anyone bought one.

[EddiePlaysBass]

I used to shy away from playing open strings, but since I started playing electric upright, I have reworked a lot of my bass lines to include as many open strings as possible, especially on (what I consider) busier bass lines such as Elvis' "Burning Love". So it really depends from one song to the next, AND it is an interesting exercise to approach a song from both angles.

[The Geoff]

Generally I play up the fretboard where I can, rarely using open strings *except* when I'm playing fretless, as I find that the occasional open string acts as a 'landmark' for my ear to help underpin the accuracy (or not!) of my intonation.

 

G.

[Graham56]

It's not just about transposition. Using open strings can give you a different sound which might be what you need.

 

I find the most important thing about using open strings is getting the muting and damping right. It takes that bit more care and attention when you haven't got a fretting finger to stop the note ringing out.

 

Cheers

 

Graham

 

[Davo-London]

I generally play without open strings unless I want that sound.

 

Certainly if you were playing a lot of 80's pop then you would need to embrace the open string!

 

My custom bass has an ebony nut and I notice the open string sound isn't as contrasting as a regular Fender set-up for example.

 

I think it's easier to learn without and then re-introduce it later as and when you want it.

 

Davo

[Ross Brown]

I think open vs fretted note have a different sound and I use that. There are a few occasions where I will play the same not open and then fretted or vice versa. It is a slight difference that give some colour to the sound.

 

Open string to fretted transposition is not too bad unless you only have a 4 count to figure it out... then that would eliminate some of us from the pool.

[Paul K]

Generally I play up the fretboard where I can, rarely using open strings *except* when I'm playing fretless, as I find that the occasional open string acts as a 'landmark' for my ear to help underpin the accuracy (or not!) of my intonation.

 

G.

 

Exactly. The other time I use open strings is when I'm tired and need to shake out my left hand.

[groover]

I mostly fret every note. I will use open strings on occasion for sound or convenience reasons, not very often though.

[Rocky McDougall]

I suggest, as a new player, you learn to use open strings comfortably. Play the lower scales for practice. Later if you prefer playing higher on the neck that is ok. On certain songs I like the sound of the open string.

Rocky

[getz out]

My teacher advocates the no-open-strings approach, and I can certainly see the benefit. Just wondering how others feel about it.

 

Sounds like a rather closed-minded approach in my opinion.

 

1. with a quality instrument that is properly set-up, an open string is not going to have a timbre so different that is sounds out of place. If I was avoiding the use of open strings due to this, I would consider having the bass set-up with special attention to the nut.

 

2. rather than relying on muscle memory, knowing your fretboard will help with transpositions. Knowing what you are playing (both notes and in relation to the related chord) is key for writing and improvising in my opinion.

[jeremy c]

Of course, it is easier and faster to learn how to play bass by using all moveable fingerings. I start with this way with my students.

 

But at some point, you really need to know how to play using open strings. You should be able to play scales using open strings. Scales in 3rds is a good exercise which will help you get familiar with the open strings.

 

If you are sight reading, you are really going to need to use open strings. You will not have the liberty of looking down at your hands.

 

Yes, muting is more of an issue with open strings. That is why you need to work on it.

 

What my esteemed colleague, Maury, posted above about know what you are playing is a key point. You should have your brain engaged. You should know what you are playing (such as being able to sing your part) and you should know what part of the chord you are playing and what each chord's relation to the next one is.

[davio]

2. rather than relying on muscle memory, knowing your fretboard will help with transpositions. Knowing what you are playing (both notes and in relation to the related chord) is key for writing and improvising in my opinion.

This.

[Groove Mama]

2. rather than relying on muscle memory, knowing your fretboard will help with transpositions. Knowing what you are playing (both notes and in relation to the related chord) is key for writing and improvising in my opinion.

This.

 

Yep. Duly noted. It's just so danged different from a keyboard, but maybe that's a good thing. (Practice, practice and more practice...)

[davio]

It's easier than a keyboard (in my warped little mind, anyway) because there are no white and black keys. Just frets.

 

Here's an interesting book I picked up years ago and still pull out from time to time. The Bass Grimoire. Every scale you could hope to learn and then so so many more. It has them laid out in various formats (unfortunately, standard notation isn't one of them) and goes through each mode of each scale, all the chord symbols each mode works with and fretboard plots of where each note is in each position up the neck. Sometimes I pick a random scale and work the hell out of it until it starts to feel natural...it helps me grow even more familiar with the fretboard and build a more intimate knowledge of the relationships between scales, modes, funky intervals and chords.

[Groove Mama]

It's easier than a keyboard (in my warped little mind, anyway) because there are no white and black keys. Just frets.

 

Agreed: way easier for that very reason. The only problem is that the frets all look the same to my keyboard-skewed brain and I have no black keys to use as landmarks. But I'm getting there, I'm getting there...

 

Thanks for the book recommendation, Davio. Sounds like a good one. Will definitely check it out.

[getz out]

It's easier than a keyboard (in my warped little mind, anyway) because there are no black keys. Just frets.

 

Racist.

[Ross Brown]

oh no....

[davio]

Aren't we all a little racist? ...and some of us are pervs to boot!

 

[jeremy c]

The position dots are supposed to be the landmarks.

[Groove Mama]

The position dots are supposed to be the landmarks.

 

LOL. Understood, but those little dots all look the same! (And, no, that was NOT a racist remark.)

 

[getz out]

It will never be as uniform as keys, so it takes a bit more effort. Keys are uniform and color coded. Hell, every lazy keyboard player calls out "C" because it is easy enough to mail it in. Helen Keller could solo in C on keys...

[Groove Mama]

Hell, every lazy keyboard player calls out "C" because it is easy enough to mail it in. Helen Keller could solo in C on keys...

 

Hahaha. Tru dat!

 

But, weirdly, I can't help but think of chords and arpeggios and note-type stuff in terms of a keyboard when I'm trying to figure stuff out on the bass. Maybe it's like thinking in your first language before speaking in your second.

[davio]

It's very much like multiple languages. It's also similar in that the more fluent you become, the more easily you'll be able to think in terms of the second language.

[Bottom End]

+1 to learning the fretboard!

 

I think your teacher may just be using the "no open notes" idea to get the student to learn both notes and patterns.

As above, preformance-wise, you'll want to use open strings, so learn that scale or pattern in as many ways as you can in practice, when you get to performance and want to try something new, you'll know where the notes are to do it.

[Groove Mama]

+1 to learning the fretboard!

 

I think your teacher may just be using the "no open notes" idea to get the student to learn both notes and patterns.

 

Yep, that's it, both notes and patterns.

 

As for learning the fretboard, I'm working on it, believe me, but it's just taking so long. I haven't played an instrument in over 30 years. A large contingent of my music-theory brain cells have long since bit the dust, and my fingers won't do what I tell them to. Other than that, I'm having a blast! :-)

[Nicklab]

It will never be as uniform as keys, so it takes a bit more effort. Keys are uniform and color coded. Hell, every lazy keyboard player calls out "C" because it is easy enough to mail it in. Helen Keller could solo in C on keys...

 

 

Sightist.

 

 

 

I'd also recommend learning how to utilise both open strings as well as fretted notes. Do it now so that you don't find yourself locked into one methodology which might require you to re-learn some things further down the road. Learn to play scales in different patterns and positions. Use open strings. Use fretted notes. Learn how the timbre of a fretted note will sound like compared to an open string. Think of it as your bass geography lesson...you CAN get there from here!

[Groove Mama]

Think of it as your bass geography lesson...you CAN get there from here!

 

Thanks, Nicklab. I needed that. I'm having a bad-arpeggio night and getting frustrated trying to come up with a bass line for "Autumn Leaves." Last night went pretty well, actually, but tonight not so much. Seriously considering using my Ibanez to hit fly balls instead.

[Nicklab]

Arpeggios can really be one of the best practice exercises you can do. There are SO MANY things you can do with them. Just try running through them like this through the circle of 5ths:

 

1-3-5 (major)

1-3-5-7 (major 7th)

1-3-5-7 (dominant 7)

1-3-5-7-9 (major 7th)

1-3-5-7-9 (dominant 7)

 

1-3-5 (minor)

1-3-5-7 (minor)

1-3-5-#7 (harmonic minor)

1-3-5-7-9 (minor)

 

It's a great training exercise. And try them in different fingering patterns. You should try playing these on as few strings as two and as many as four strings.

[Bottom End]

"autumn Leaves" how about mixing the melody with the bassline from "Moondance"?