Yamaha CP1 first impressions

[Andy Seattle]

Those "inconsistencies" make it sound realistic to me.

Yes, and it may well be deliberate. I'm just pointing out that it's there and I don't like it personally. I didn't notice this unevenness on the SV-1 and it's not there on my Scarbee '73 samples.

[robipiano]

Could you make a short demo of the Acoustic Piano with few notes with different dinamic levels?

Thanks in advance.

[Melodialworks]

I played the CP1 on Friday eve. and Sat. AM.

 

What... did you sleep with it?

 

D'oh! Busted!

 

Impressions, with the caveat that I'm only interested in the AP sounds, and hence only checked out the AP sounds.

 

Action.

Graded or not graded did not seem to be a factor for me. I liked it very much. I was really concentrating on the sound and comparing the AP's and the effect of tweaks. Dig into the keys and you get a great response. I wasn't actually noticing the action, it was there, worked, felt natural, a pleasure to play - not much to say about it really. I really wonder in a blind test if you could tell if it was graded or not? I don't know, but I certainly didn't feeling like I was missing anything in the action.

 

 

AP Sound.

I found the CFIII to be bright, but I'm not actually all that accustomed to Yamaha piano sound. The tone knobs could work for taming this, but I also found adjusting hammer hardness (to Soft 1 or even Soft 2) worked very well. (I'm doing new age piano, not rocking out!) I liked the CFIII better than the S6, which actually surprised me, with patches 1 (CF Grand) and 5 (Lush Piano) being the best. Both are versions of the CF 3Band. These patches seem to have personality with a character for each of the bass/ mid/ treble, but in a good way. All three ranges worked very well.

 

Dynamic Range / Expression - Superb.

 

Reverb.

Understated. Tweaking seemed to not have a great deal of effect (no pun intended) but the store was starting to get noisy at this point. However, this is definitely not a "drowned in reverb" type of instrument, as far as the AP's are concerned. (I didn't check out any of the EP's). This is a good thing! The AP's were standing TALL on their own.

 

Build Quality - Excellent.

 

Screen - fine.

 

Controls - I liked the six knobs, which act as soft keys. Intuitive.

 

Screen - fine

 

Bottom line? This is going to be a great instrument to own and play and explore and compose and record with!

[David Loving]

again, thanks for the review. I hope the CFIII is the CP50 piano. I need one good piano and one good rhodes.

[Athan Billias]

Yes, both the CFIII and the S6 are in the CP5 and the CP50 has the exact same CFIII. Hope that helps ! We will be getting the CP5 and CP50 manuals up pretty soon.

[madshi]

@Athan,

 

two more questions, if you don't mind:

 

(1) The CP1 seems to have a 2-band and a 3-band variant of the CFIII. Does the CP5/CP50 CFIII match the 2-band or 3-band CP1 CFIII?

(2) Does the CP5/CP50 CFIII have a cut down sampling storage size compared to the matching CFIII sound in the CP1? Or is the sampling size identical?

 

Thanks much - it's great to get such in-depth information!

[David Loving]

+1, what Jazz+ said, above. I agree - it sounds authentic to me. My jones factor just skyrocketed. I bet, now I am no rhodes expert, but I have played several, that the inconsistencies are those you'd find on some.

[Suppport Guy]

The 2-band and 3-band variants are referencing the modeled preamp that is in the CP1. The CP5/CP50 do not have the preamp so the CFIIIS and S6 are the same source instrument minus the preamp. And yes the CP50 CFIIIS is identical to the CP1 minus the modeled preamp.

[Mogut]

Is support guy Phil C?

[Suppport Guy]

Nope...guess again;)

[madshi]

The 2-band and 3-band variants are referencing the modeled preamp that is in the CP1. The CP5/CP50 do not have the preamp so the CFIIIS and S6 are the same source instrument minus the preamp. And yes the CP50 CFIIIS is identical to the CP1 minus the modeled preamp.

Thanks - great information! And it's great to hear that CP5/CP50 are not artificially crippled in audio quality...

 

Can you spend a few words on explaining the practical benefits of having a preamp for AP sounds? I mean instead of modifying bass/mids/treble in the preamp, you could do that with the general tone controls (or even in an external mixer). So how much of an advantage does the preamp give the CP1 in terms of audio quality for AP sounds?

 

Thanks again!

[Mogut]

Nope...guess again;)

 

Found it. Youve revealed yourself in previous posts.

[Mike Martin]

Is support guy Phil C?

 

Hi "Support Guy"!

[Suppport Guy]

Hey Mike!

[Miracle]

This is an out of the ordinary topic from PianoWorld The DP BSD Project! by dewster!

 

Lawrence just sent me an DPBSD MP3 of the CP1 he got just today - thanks Lawrence! He gave me the go-ahead to post it for him.

 

They've done a good job of blending the velocity layers, but I think we anticipated that. The low notes have nice decay, but the mid and high notes decay rather quickly. The sympathetic resonance is rather typical for Yamaha, on par with the P-155 IMO.

 

The actual sample lengths are what surprised me. They hide it pretty well by doing a good job on the looping, but I was expecting something longer than what I've seen in just about every other mid-level DP so far.

 

[font:Courier New]--------------

- Yamaha CP1 -

--------------

FILE & SETUP:

- bsd_v1.3_yamaha_cp1.mp3

- Default patch 1 CF Grand (CF 3Band) Piano + PreAmp + MasterEQ blocks enabled.

- Cubase

PROS:

- Lowest notes have nice long decay.

- Good dynamic range (~38.5dB, vel=1:127).

- I believe this is a very smoothly blended 4 layer sample set with no audible layer switching.

- Visible layer switch @ vel=54,96,120 (spectral pan & phase displays).

- Sympathetic resonance.

- Responds to partial pedaling.

CONS:

- Mids and highs have somewhat short decay.

- Looped, though well done.

- Samples lengths are (C2:C9) 3,2.2,2,1.8,1.7,1.3,1,0.8 seconds.

- Audibly stretched at the low and high ends, no stretching of mids.

- Stretch distances: 3,3,4,4,4,2,4,3,1(x26),2,3,2,1,1,1,3,2,2,3,4,2,3,3,3 = 49 groups.

- No obvious pedal up/down or key up samples.

- Sympathetic resonance is echoy and reverby.

OTHER:

- Volume and noise floor in MP3 file excellent.

- Date reviewed: 2010-02-13

[/font]

[Melodialworks]

I'm digging my CP1, which I picked up on Saturday.

 

At this point, my focus is on AP.

 

My default go to patch is #5 Lush Piano, either with the Hammer set to Normal, or to Soft 1. This is using the CF 3Band Adjusting the hammers does change the character, and I find my self actually playing differently, depending on what setting I'm using. This is as it should be.

 

My second default go to patch is #04 S6 Lounge, either with Hammer set to Soft 1 or Soft 2. This patch uses the S6 3Band.

 

However, some of the other patches are awesome, as well, and may become my default go to patches!

 

I've experimented with some tweaking, but not to improve the sound, but to explore what the parameters will actually do. So often with DP's or samples, the patch programming is not that great, and you need to work very hard to improve the situation. Not so with the CP1. The patches are excellent. This machine is totally useable right out of the box.

 

Man, are these pianos detailed and alive. I'm in love with them. I have the day off, due to a provincial holiday, and have a giant to-do list, but find myself instead drawn to the CP1, not just because it is new in the studio, or because I'm trying to avoid my to-do list, but because it is so enjoyable to play.

 

The range of expression on both pianos is amazing, and allows for very creative results. In other words, you play differently. It feels like you're playing AP's not a digital piano.

 

Best DP I've ever played? Yes.

 

Better than sampled pianos I've played? I would have to say yes.

 

This thing sounds alive! It sounds real!

 

I also love how it sounds recorded, which is not something that I can always say. Some DP's / samples sound good while you're playing them, but disappointing on playback after you've recorded them.

 

Yesterday I turned on the CD player in my car. Some nice piano started playing. I thought, that sounds really nice, I wonder what this is? Oh, its the CP1! (I had dumped some of the user demos to CDR and had forgotten about it being in the car).

 

So, of course, your milage may vary, but anyone considering a stage piano would be well advised to check out the new CP1, and subsequently CP5 or CP50 depending on your needs.

 

And no, I don't work for Yamaha. I've just become a real fan of this keyboard.

[mal7]

So I've had mine almost a week now - I didn't want to rush in with opinions until I'd had time to really dig into it.

 

First the positives:-

- The action is fantastic - it feels very comfortable and responsive and it suits both the acoustic and electric pianos very well.

- The acoustic pianos are very good indeed, each with a very distinctive character. The CFIII is bright and dynamic, the S6 woody and refined. The soundboard resonance is beautiful - very dense and lush.

- It's very easy to tweak the sounds to suit your preferences.

- The damper pedal is a continuous controller, rather than an on/off or half-pedal one.

- Very nice Dimension D effect.

 

And the negatives:-

- The factory presets don't show the CP1 in its best light. A lot of the sounds are very plain - they can be made to sound a lot better, in my opinion.

- There's not much granularity when it comes to tweaking sounds. When you're altering the Attack Timbre or Hammers for example, there are only 5 settings (Soft 1&2, Normal and Hard 1&2) so just a single turn of the control can make a big difference to the sound.

- The reverbs sound cheap and thin. (I may be biased as I've been trialling the Lexicon bundle for the past fortnight, but there you go...)

- No Delay or Univibe effects.

- The amp distortion effects are unconvincing. They sound like a kind of grainy fizz tacked on to the sounds rather than an organic and responsive part of the sounds.

- On the '78 and '73 Rhodes models, there are some weird inconsistencies across the keyboard. I haven't got a real '78 or '73 to compare, so it may be a deliberately modeled quirk from the originals, but to me it just sounds odd. Some notes feel like they have different velocity curves and there are sometimes marked differences in the bell sound between adjacent keys and across groups of notes. It makes my playing sound noticeably uneven when I'm playing either of these two sounds. Here's an example using the 78 Rhodes preset (I've deliberately fixed the velocity on this scale to rule out playing inconsistencies. Where there's a noticeable difference, I've repeated the notes a few times to make the point).

- As noted before, switching the modulation effect on or off during sustained notes cuts the sound off briefly. The M3 can do this without disturbing the signal path so it's disappointing that the CP1 can't.

- No 'Jump' preset. Just kidding.

 

Hi Andy

 

Have you had a chance to compare the CP1 with Ivory, with respect to sound, feel, playability etc.

I'm seriously considering selling my P250/software pianos and get the CP1

[mal7]

Andy, also a comparison of the CP1 Electric Pianos compared to Scarbee RSP would be helpful.

Would be interesting to see how the CP1 stacks up against software pianos

 

many thanks

Mal

[Mark Schmieder]

The e-pianos are modeled, correct? Or are they hybrid modeling/sampling?

[Andy Seattle]

Have you had a chance to compare the CP1 with Ivory, with respect to sound, feel, playability etc. I'm seriously considering selling my P250/software pianos and get the CP1

I absolutely love the CP1 pianos - for playability they are the best I've had. The two pianos have a very distinct character and after a month of playing them, I still can't pick a favorite. It's very easy to tweak the sounds and the swirly sympathetic resonance is beautiful. I think the only negative is that there are no pad sounds to layer under the pianos, but CP5/50 users will have that ability. I am still using Ivory for recordings at the moment, but that's more out of convenience. I guess Ivory II will raise the bar again when it's released in May though.

 

Andy, also a comparison of the CP1 Electric Pianos compared to Scarbee RSP would be helpful. Would be interesting to see how the CP1 stacks up against software pianos

I'll get on it when the wife's gone to bed tonight. As I noted before, I was underwhelmed with the factory presets, but I've got my '75 and '78 rhodes sounds working well now. Personally, I still slightly prefer Scarbee, but others who have heard them side by side disagree. Native Instruments will have the full range of Scarbee pianos out soon so I'll do another comparison when I get them.

 

The e-pianos are modeled, correct? Or are they hybrid modeling/sampling?

All modeled I think. The a-pianos are hybrid - samples with modeled resonance.

 

[mal7]

Thanks for that Andy...unfortunately the CP1 still hasn't hit Australian shores, but I will be in the market for one (or CP5) for sure

[mal7]

Thanks for that Andy...unfortunately the CP1 still hasn't hit Australian shores, but I will be in the market for one (or CP5) for sure

[ADino]

Wow, I know I get busy, but people are raving about this thing...

 

Is this thing good enough to do jazz? Wow, lookit those prices????

 

Ok, does the CP5 offer the same piano samples as the Cp1? I dont care much about the synth sounds, but the rhodes would be important, but from what Im reading, sounds like people like them...

 

Is this going to replace the 700 GX? Or to word it better, is this going to "convert" the 700gx users?

 

Ive read posts where guys are saying its better than software piano's???? I mean, I like my gx, but I like it much better when I use it w/Ivory...Just when I thought things were getting settled...

 

 

[ADino]

So, compared to the V-Piano, it's....?

 

.... thought out, design-wise for the player, much better. And it's overall sound/voices makes me think that Yamaha put more time into development/packaging/presentation. I've spent a couple of hours with a V-piano in a store near my home in CO; it's certainly an impressive instrument. But I did get to put in some time over at Yamaha last night, spending about an hour going back and forth between the CP1 and CP5. My impressions, playing-wise are similar to dB's.

The dynamic subtlety of the pianos was the best I've experienced on a DP. The Rhodes voices were amazing: thought I was back on the road in '79 w/my Mark II and MXR Phase 90; it was simply that good.

 

I was impressed with the initial internet videos; blown away in person. This is one, serious piece o' hardware...

 

Hey Allen, you've played both the 1 and the 5..are there ANY difference at all in the piano sounds between the 2 or are they the same on both??

Ditto for the action...great that you were able to do both of them...

[Aidan]

Just when I thought things were getting settled...

 

Hey, things never get settled That's GAS, man!

 

As to your question, I think a lot may hang on how big an improvement the GX expansion board proves to be. If a significant improvement on the built-in pianos, I can't see many GX owners shifting allegiance.

 

I've played the Yamaha wooden actions in its top-end Clavinovas and while nice, I still preferred my GX. Also, Yamaha's take on ivory-sim key tops is a lot more glossy and slippy than the matt finish on the GX, which I prefer.

[ADino]

Hey Aidan, how u be? I was wondering what this thing is like, I did some demo stuff on the Yam WS that came out, and while not noticeable, it was very playable, so I thought this thing would or should be a killer...WARNING: Do not base your opinion on Utube vids of this thing..smatter of fact, dont bother w/utube at all, just find 1 to try...

 

I never heard the expression gas until I came here by the way...

[Melodialworks]

So I've had mine almost a week now - I didn't want to rush in with opinions until I'd had time to really dig into it.

 

I've had mine for 11 days, now. And did rush in with my opinions on the AP.

 

I would now have to agree that the presets can be improved, and also that more choice in settings, for example hammer hardness would be beneficial. If find myself, for example, wanting something between NORMAL and SOFT 1 etc.

 

I haven't done much with the S6. Too busy enjoying the CFIII.