Tell Me How Much I Suck

[1111000]

That is to say, feel free to check out my MySpace and tell me if you think any of the tracks are weak and pathetic. You very well may--they all have some flaws. They're all raw as well, save the top two. Anyways, I just thought I'd stick a bunch of tracks up to represent various projects I've done and I am starting to wonder if it's too much, or if I am diluting the experience by having so many.

 

Bear in mind that since they cover various genres I am trying to instill some sense of "versatility" to any prospective artist that would chance across my page and like to utilize my services.

 

The majority of the tracks (5/7) are the same fretless, although the rig and strings change betwixt them. The other two are fretted, I think some of you may have heard those before. They're old.

 

http://www.myspace.com/joshuachandlerplaysbass

 

Thanks guys... I'm going to go ahead and prepare myself for criticism in case you decide to wing anything at me. Better I get it now than later.

 

The interesting thing to me is that my favorite songs tend not to be the choice of others. For one, people usually don't like the longer songs, but I live for such as them. I tend to take solos at the end of some of the longer ones, like on "LWYG", which is maybe a bad thing because people don't wait around for it due to the lengthy structure.

 

Ah and... there are tons of tracks I can replace these with. These are just some of the ones I liked. So seriously, if this is "elimination island" for any of these offerings, cool.

 

Anyways... let me know. Fanks.

[J. Dan]

Bass is about my 3rd or 4th instrument, so take my comments with a grain of salt!

 

I liked all the songs - the bass lines were all good.

 

Mix-wise, a few things... on Red Grave, it seems like the bass drops out of the mix a bit on the higher end of the scale. I was listening through headphones (AKG 240M), so it may be different on speakers. On HatTrick it sounds a little bit funny dynamically in the beginning when it's just bass, but then when everything else comes in, it sounds great. So not sure if there's any change needed or not. Sounds highly compressed to my ears. Kombucha I don't like the tone at all. The bass sounds like a Trombone - it's all mid. The line is great, I would shoot for a different tone. I like the Vox on Summer Groove - any thought of putting more Vox to the other stuff?

 

Overall, I like. But I'm just a keyboard player who plays some bass, so do with my comments what you will.

[moot]

You're no Lug but hey, you're still young.

[1111000]

Mix-wise, a few things... on Red Grave, it seems like the bass drops out of the mix a bit on the higher end of the scale. I was listening through headphones (AKG 240M), so it may be different on speakers. On HatTrick it sounds a little bit funny dynamically in the beginning when it's just bass, but then when everything else comes in, it sounds great. So not sure if there's any change needed or not. Sounds highly compressed to my ears.

 

Wow! Thanks so much for this detailed feedback.

 

I personally dislike the same things regarding tone on Red Groove and Hat Trick and am a bit upset with the engineer to this day... those come from an album I recorded with my ex-band and I really dislike Gary's take on what the bass was supposed to be doing. When I listen back to the raw tracks it's totally different, much fuller. I think he "squished it" too much. I was too scared to whine about it at the time, unfortunately--my first experience in a studio had me spooked. I also know exactly what you're saying about the dynamics and the only way I can explain it is probably my poor technique, I dunno.

 

Kombucha I don't like the tone at all. The bass sounds like a Trombone - it's all mid. The line is great, I would shoot for a different tone. I like the Vox on Summer Groove - any thought of putting more Vox to the other stuff?

 

Kombucha--I don't recall my pickup settings on that song but I do remember how odd the recording was. Everyone (full band) was in a cramped room together with three or four mics up, and I had a line out from my amp that apparently never got used. I agree with you, the bass tone on that song is very singular. It reminds me of early Stanley Clarke in RTF if anything, or also of some very early Geddy stuff. They both cultivated a similar "vintage sound" way back before either was really famous, but these days the same sound is not up to par. I'll see if I can find a good replacement track for this one.

 

Admittedly I used TIJF344s for that track and I now prefer D'Addario Chromes for recording (see LWYG, Falling Stars, and We Who See the Deep for the difference).

 

Summer Groove also had the TIs. What do you mean about Vox?

 

You're no Lug but hey, you're still young.

 

I know, I'm trying.

[rizzo9247]

My speakers are getting a little wacky at the moment, but I do have one critique, don't look so angry, smile a little in your picture!

[1111000]

I get that critique a lot! Unfortunately I have a very hard time "tricking myself" into smiling... I have had this problem all of my life. My school pictures are horrendous.

 

I'll give it my best shot some time soon. My wife agrees with you.

[Rocky McDougall]

I have been playing bass for over 45 years, I still cannot play and smile at the same time.

Rocky

[b5pilot]

Not bad!

The opening bass solo on Hattrick seems a bit disjointed and what seemed like a sweeping speaker effect kind of bothered me but it grooves well once it got going.

A couple of the songs seemed to take a while to develop. What I mean by that is the beginings seemed to meander a bit too long before they got to the body of the song. Then again at times I have a short attention span.

Summer Groove was probably my favorite.

As you said some of the tracks did sound pretty raw.

No you don't suck. Keep going I'd like to hear more.

[1111000]

Thanks B5, I totally agree about Hat Trick and can't quite account for why that happened with the sweeping dynamics--was it me, the engineer, the way we recorded it as a bi-direct?--but I wish I could go back in and fix it. All I remember is the guitarist doing a really quiet swell effect with his signal and then it brought in some really weird sweeping hum that we had to attenuate in the mixdown.

 

As for song development... I suffer from "long song" syndrome and have really only just begun to address it. I really like long songs and long forms and few others do. "LWYG" for instance could probably stand to lose a verse and perhaps a chorus as well. If I get a chance to redo it with that guitarist or another group I may change that about it. However, I wrote it for my wife when we were dating, and I want to get all the lyrics in I could. Ironically the lyrics on THAT recording of it are not faithful to my original sheet!

 

No you don't suck. Keep going I'd like to hear more.

 

Thanks for that! Will do.

 

 

 

...Here's a question for the whole forum: how would I be able to get into these tracks and remaster them? Could I use GarageBand or ProTools to just master the whole, smashed-together waveform of each song for some positive results? And if I were to remaster anything, are there specific ones that need more attention than others?

 

Thanks again everyone for contributing some good thoughts so far.

[Paul K]

I'm digging it a whole lot. I Like the bass things happening. I like how each instrument has a whole lot of space. The drummer on Hat Trick is a lot of fun to listen to. Critical? There's something grating me about the sax. Dude needs to push it in a little bit. No. Make that a lot. He's way flat. And a little reverb will disguise what happens when his fingers aren't doing the same thing his tongue is doing.

 

Vox. I assume Dan means vocals. And yup. I like them too. It brings another dimension to the tunes. And it gives the "things" that happen between the vocals much more impact.

 

The French is the toughest horn. Please don't turn it into your version of Marcus Miller's damn bass clarinet. And "Tell Me How Much I Suck"? C'mon. Grow a pair and believe in yourself. It's good stuff.

[1111000]

There's something grating me about the sax. Dude needs to push it in a little bit. No. Make that a lot. He's way flat. And a little reverb will disguise what happens when his fingers aren't doing the same thing his tongue is doing.

 

Interesting... will keep this in mind if I record with him again. I think he's still blossoming, but has a lot of potential; I tend to really like his song ideas.

 

Vox. I assume Dan means vocals. And yup. I like them too. It brings another dimension to the tunes. And it gives the "things" that happen between the vocals much more impact.

 

What a good point about how to phrase an overall song. Hadn't thought of it that way, at least not consciously.

 

The French is the toughest horn. Please don't turn it into your version of Marcus Miller's damn bass clarinet.

 

Haha! Yet another example of why I am dangerous as as songwriter... I love weird stuff like MM's bass clarinet. But yeah, I don't have many plans to record the French horn, except for basic "framing" like you hear it put to use as a "clarion call" in certain classical pieces. I've lost a lot of my chops because I haven't played for over a year! I'm back down to not reading much faster than eighth notes, and a lot of my high-register glisses are gone.

 

Thanks, Paul, for your positive thoughts as well!

[lug]

You're no Lug but hey, you're still young.

 

This

[davio]

Finally got around to listening. Some of the music has some cool ideas. Some refining would be necessary to make it marketable if that's what you're after.

 

That said, I've heard worse. I've played worse. I know of signed bass players with less groove.

 

Pretty cool. I'm still listening. That's something.

[1111000]

Pretty cool. I'm still listening. That's something.

 

This forum is full of people with good quotes... Thank you Davio.

 

Bearing in mind "some refining" seems in order (I don't want to market it, just use it to make me marketable), how would I go about thaT?

[davio]

Bearing in mind "some refining" seems in order (I don't want to market it, just use it to make me marketable), how would I go about thaT?

Marketable music isn't just selling the song...it's selling the artist so, yes, it sounds like you want it to be marketable.

 

How to go about making it marketable depends on if you have rights to the songs...I'm assuming you do since you put them on your MySpace (see the user agreement). If the song has been released to the public on a CD or equivalent I'd suggest just leaving it as is and moving on.

 

There have been some good suggestions so far but what you can do to better represent yourself is strictly dependant on how you want to represent yourself and what you want to accomplish with it. Vague enough?

 

Are you trying to get freelance gigs with it? Are you more interested in modern jazz and acoustic pop or are you trying to get into other things as well? You'd probably do well to package and present it like you would a demo. People won't listen to everything there. Limit it to 3 or 4 songs that showcase the kind of variety (or lack thereof...which isn't a bad thing if that's what you want) you think best represents you both stylistically as well as technically. You can use long songs but make sure they have quality content up front at the beginning as well because potential employers are not likely to get through the whole thing.

 

The Hat Trick thing sounds like a pretty simple 3D sweep effect (I'm guessing going back and forth from left to right and DI to mic with a somewhat drastic difference in EQ between the two sources)...giving it the effect of going around in a circle. Usually sweep-type effects have to be somewhat planned out and tweaked the hell out of unless you're going for a randomish feel (in which case, it's not drastic enough...meaning time, not depth).

 

As to the remastering idea...you might be able to squeeze a little bit more life out of it but you'd be able to do a crapload more if you had all of the data files, etc. for remixing.

 

In regards to the packaging idea (again, assuming you're looking to freelance through this)...I wouldn't bother listing all of your gear. Somebody will come to the site looking for concise info about a bass player...not an RIC/Ashdown/Tech21/etc. owner. They want a bass player and if they're really that worried about what kind of equipment you use, they can ask you.

 

Also, are you looking to get gigs playing guitar, piano, french horn, flute or drums? If not, I'd suggest not cluttering the page with all of that. Again, people will come to the page looking for a bass player...not a bass player who can play a drum with their foot and catch their loogies back in their mouth after spitting them a death-defying 10 feet in the air. Mention that you also play other instruments but if your priority is bass, limit your details to bass and make another page for getting piano gigs. If they want a bass player that can double on other instruments, they'll ask.

 

All this info is coming from me as a strictly bass playing freelance musician (who dabbles but doesn't gig on a couple other instruments) so interpret it as such.

[jeremy c]

Just keep going in the direction you're going, Joshua, you're doing fine.

 

I would never tell someone that they suck. That's just mean, doesn't really mean anything anyway, and is certainly not helpful.

 

random rambling here: (you'll see the relevance to the thread at the bottom):

I remember one of my early gigs. I was 16 and drove the band in my dad's station wagon to play at a rowdy club called The North Hop, in Attleboro, Mass. on rte 1. There were all kinds of motorcycles parked at the front door and all kinds of guys with greased back hair, pencil thin mustaches, wearing tight t-shirts with the sleeves rolled up and a pack of cigarettes tucked into the sleeve. A girl with white lipstick, black eye shadow and a foot high beehive haircut "liked" our fourteen year old guitarist and showed it by standing in front of him and blowing smoke in his face the whole time we performed.

 

And as we walked in, one of the aforementioned locals said to us: "Youse guys suck. My cousin, he's got a band would blow you away."

 

Somehow we survived.

[1111000]

There have been some good suggestions so far but what you can do to better represent yourself is strictly dependant on how you want to represent yourself and what you want to accomplish with it. Vague enough?

 

Great advice! A lot to soak in...

 

Agreed on the gear and on the "story", I think I just like to list more information than is necessary "just in case" someone could benefit from it (admittedly a few artists who read about me and picked me up for gigs in MO did appreciate the info, at least enough to ask me more about it later) but this goes against good [read: concise] marketing strategies, as you have wisely pointed out. Yes, the goal is to work freelance, not to attract the next Metallica to lift me from my drab life of whateverdom into stardom. I just want to get some fun, hopefully well-paying gigs.

 

At the same time part of the reason I listed the gear at all was just to "get it out there", i.e. if somebody was going to say "You don't own a P Bass, get out of my sight," I'd rather it was on MySpace than at an audition I wasted time driving to. I know not everyone likes RIC, but I'm committed to my instruments and that's that... Still you make a great point, gear information really isn't all that relevant for most normal situations.

 

Stylistically I'm a bit scattered, so that makes it kind've hard for me to know which songs to prune. Perhaps just one of each genre. I could probably lose one of the jazz songs, one of the acoustic songs... Hat Trick and Red Groove are different enough for me to think I could keep both but perhaps not, I think Red Groove is stronger as well. Also, there are tons of others I haven't posted.

 

Actually, I feel like I am kind've lacking a really good hard metal song, that's how I got my start! I also do trip hop... could use a song from that genre. Or does that get too eclectic?

 

Lots of great comments Davio.

 

And as we walked in, one of the aforementioned locals said to us: "Youse guys suck. My cousin, he's got a band would blow you away."

 

Somehow we survived.

 

That's truly hilarious.

 

While the title of the thread was kind've a joke, I basically always try to live in a position of "I suck" with everything in life, hoping that it will keep me from getting cocky. IN SPITE of that mental mantra I still get arrogant and act like a jerk sometimes... by reminding myself that I am nothing special, I am attempting to force myself to never stop growing and to treat others fairly, as if they are my equals or better (because I want to think they are). I guess that's the idea, even though it may sound really dark. Any suggestions as to a better paradigm? Seriously, my ears are open. And thanks, Jeremy, for the kind words as well.

[davio]

Actually, I feel like I am kind've lacking a really good hard metal song, that's how I got my start! I also do trip hop... could use a song from that genre. Or does that get too eclectic?

It's only too eclectic if you don't want eclectic gigs. If you want to just play jazz, having the acoustipop there would be too eclectic.

 

Any suggestions as to a better paradigm?

Know you're the shiznit and act like everybody else is too...? Over emphasizing the humble factor may be good for your spirit or whatever but it's too easy for it to come off as a lack of confidence...which can be bad for business.

[jeremy c]

Brother, can you spare a paradigm?

 

(I've been wanting to say that for a long time.)

[Griffinator]

You're a paradigm.

[1111000]

This thread has been fantastic... and then the "you're a"'s began.

 

[Danzilla]

FYI- I've found 98% of your playing enjoyable, and fitting well with the rest of the song.

 

(I just don't want you to get a swelled head)

[davio]

Swollen heads are ok unless you play baseball. Then they pee test you.

[The Bear Jew]

You're a pee test.

[davio]

I forgot my glasses and didn't see that one coming. It buuuurns.

[The Bear Jew]

Oh yeah, by the way, Josh...

I listened to your stuff.

 

Most of the material is not my cup of tea, to be honest, but I can tell you have skillz, and if I saw you with a band, I wouldn't make fun of your playing until after I left the building. It's very obvious that you know a thing or two about playing bass. You definitely are not a sucky player... I just don't dig on the material a lot.

 

But, then again, I'm a curmudgeonly bastard. Not a big surpise.

[1111000]

That's fine if you don't "dig" it... thanks for the feedback! While we're at it about the material, do you think it would help if I added something "heavier" to the list? I got my start in the rock/metal scene and wouldn't mind going back for some more now, as long it was some kind of Kyuss/Black Sabbath-ish thing with the whole psychedelic influence laced in.

[The Bear Jew]

Just to clarify, if I was listening to your tracks as a form of online pre-audition for you as a potential bassist, I'd definitely think you could do the job--as I said, I think it's very clear that you could do a lot of different gigs--but I would wonder if you would be happy playing in a heavy band. So, yeah, I think it'd a good idea to add heavier stuff to your resume if you're interested in playing with those kinds of bands.

[1111000]

Exactly what I was curious to hear--thanks!

[ZZ Thorn]

The only thing I think that sucks is your first post! Sheesh, the only thing as bad as a egotistical jerk (assuming they actually have talent and are not just an insane narcissist) is someone who is so unconfident because it NEVER STOPS with them, with the constant reinforcing, constant attending to their security. I think the only thing preventing you from gigs may be that attitude, cuz I sure like what I'm hearing!

 

Here's my take on the 'I'm awesome/I suck' - I just hit a big music festival where I saw staggeringly good players that make me think 'I am wasting my time'. But hey, I can only be me, I can't be them, and it's really that simple. It's not even about being as good as they are - there will always be someone better - it's about you feeling good as YOU!

 

You've clearly worked hard - your chops and tone are really good. I really like all that I'm hearing. You should be confident that you can handle most any music situation they throw at you - this is not arrogance. I always say: "competence creates confidence" and you are competent as hell so drop the 'pity-me' act, which I'm sure is just an act.

 

To the music, off soapobox.

 

Well, I'm not very good so I don't have much to offer, sadly, as I'm just a poor boy and I have rags for clothes and I stuff newspapers in my shoes. Ha ha.

 

Lots of good stuff, lots of interesting ideas, liked all the solos I heard, I think if you keep working you'll have a fine future in music. My main criticism was that I didn't identify a real strong sense of groove, but most of what I'm hearing is pretty jazzy and not just one chord vamps, so maybe you can groove all night for all I know. But to really groove you have to sometimes just grab all the shit and take control and say "I AM THE MOTHERFUCKING BASS PLAYER AND YOU MOTHERFUCKERS ARE ALL FOLLOWING ME SO RECOGNIZE OR GET OUT THE WAY!!!" So, you know, don't be afraid to do that by thinking, 'oh I'm not good.'

 

I like all the guys you are playing with too. Nothing but good stuff coming thru my earphones. Mucho skills on the Summer Groove solo right now. Keep it up!