d halfnote Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2090313/Re_R_I_P_Michael_Jackson#Post2090313 d=halfnote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Changeling01960 Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 The stuff he did as a 10-12 year old kid was great. What he did to 10 & 12 year old kids...not so great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d halfnote Posted June 25, 2009 Author Share Posted June 25, 2009 Having learned a lesson myself about propriety, I'd have to say that while there are reasons, in many ways, to wonder at his behaviour, he was a masterful singer & entertainer. Many people are a complex mix of attitudes that are sometimes beyond their control. d=halfnote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBBPaul Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Michael Jackson was an enormous talent. This makes me very sad. RIP MJ Our new and improved website Today's sample tune: Lonesome One Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larryz Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 His music can make you want to move and his rock videos set the bar...I don't know if he completed his last tour, but all those whoever attended his concers were the lucky ones...can't comment on his weird stuff but he was a great entertainer...hope he rests in peace... Take care, Larryz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durockrolly Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 I am 4 months older than Michael. His music was a big part of my growing years. Peace. Fernando If you can't say it in 12 bars... then it can't be said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skipclone 1 Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 My dad used to work in Indiana, I`ve been through the place where MJ grew up when I was a kid and so was he. My cousins and I used to work out dance routines to Jackson 5 songs. It was always about the music for me, I don`t know the real story about all the personal issues and neither do most people who comment on it. Even my dad`s comment on all the tabloid stuff-`he`s REALLY talented`. I agree. It`s a sad day in the entertainment world, a giant has passed way too young. Same old surprises, brand new cliches- Skipsounds on Soundclick: www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandid=602491 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d halfnote Posted June 25, 2009 Author Share Posted June 25, 2009 ...& perhaps, Skip, on the verge of rehabilitating his career, possibly his image...(& maybe himself?)... d=halfnote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skipclone 1 Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 If he had gotten together with the right people-like MUSICIANS, like SONGWRITERS, instead of sample-happy hiphoppers, that`s why it was so dynamite with Quincy J.-if he had found the right team it could have happened. Same old surprises, brand new cliches- Skipsounds on Soundclick: www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandid=602491 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluesape Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Too weird the last 20-odd years.... Never a DUH! moment! Well, almost never. OK, OK! Sometimes never! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billster Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Never mind his personal life, we'll not see an entertainer of his caliber for a loooooooong time to come. Buy my CD on CD Baby! Bill Hartzell - the website MySpace?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarPlayerFL Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 It's sad he never got to live a normal life. The first music I EVER bought with my own money was the 45 of ABC/Jackson 5. I still have it. A Jazz/Chord Melody Master-my former instructor www.robertconti.com (FKA GuitarPlayerSoCal) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webe123 Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Many people are a complex mix of attitudes that are sometimes beyond their control. Please explain to me how molesting young kids was "beyond his control"?? Sorry, I don't buy that crap for a second! But I agree with the others he was a one of a kind when it came to music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Many people are a complex mix of attitudes that are sometimes beyond their control. Please explain to me how molesting young kids was "beyond his control"?? Sorry, I don't buy that crap for a second! But I agree with the others he was a one of a kind when it came to music. I don't know. I'm still not sold on the idea that he ever actually molested any of them. We all know how litigious American society is, and how "me too" everyone tends to be when they see money to be made. I don't think the lawsuits were anything but money-driven, and he was acquitted on all counts in that criminal trial. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_v._Jackson I've always been of the mind that MJ's entire adult life was spent trying to recapture the childhood he never had. He did a lot of really weird stuff, but no one has ever been able to convince me any of it was nefarious in nature. Sure, he had screws loose, and they got progressively looser the more the public pressure was applied to him. I'd venture all that stress was his undoing as well. A bunch of loud, obnoxious music I USED to make with friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertbluesman Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 He was talented of course. I am really not concerned about the stars dying. One bites the dust every day it seems. I reserve my grief for friends and family. However I would like to take the time to laud Quincy Jones production skills on Thriller. Anyone who produces music knows what a huge impact the producer has on the final product. dbm If it sounds good, it is good !! http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=143231&content=music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A String Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Many people are a complex mix of attitudes that are sometimes beyond their control. Please explain to me how molesting young kids was "beyond his control"?? Sorry, I don't buy that crap for a second! But I agree with the others he was a one of a kind when it came to music. I don't know. I'm still not sold on the idea that he ever actually molested any of them. We all know how litigious American society is, and how "me too" everyone tends to be when they see money to be made. I don't think the lawsuits were anything but money-driven, and he was acquitted on all counts in that criminal trial. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_v._Jackson I've always been of the mind that MJ's entire adult life was spent trying to recapture the childhood he never had. He did a lot of really weird stuff, but no one has ever been able to convince me any of it was nefarious in nature. Sure, he had screws loose, and they got progressively looser the more the public pressure was applied to him. I'd venture all that stress was his undoing as well. I agree 100%. He was found not guilty. The media storm turned him into an instant pedophile, but remember that he was accused, by a woman who needed money, of kidnapping her family and abusing her kid. The kid denied that he was abused. I think folks were far too quick to jump on the band wagon. Craig Stringnetwork on Facebook String Network Forum My Music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d halfnote Posted June 26, 2009 Author Share Posted June 26, 2009 I knew that someone would post the usual obit notice & that some where in it there would be some controversy about MJ's behaviour (hence the "Uh-Oh" part of the thread title). I think that, just above, Griff (& Craig/A-String, who posted while I was typing) did a good job of explaining why Jackson may deserve the benefit of the doubt. I in no way suggest that he may not have been responsible for any misdeeds but look at all the misbehaviour---some criminal--- we blandly forgive (or even applaud) on the part of pop musicians. Beyond that I would also admit that while I have my own lingering mistrust of his conduct, Jackson had one of the most odd & pressured childhoods we might imagine. Plus he had significant trouble that wasn't his fault. Who among us has had their head catch fire on a soundstage? It's possible (though who knows) that he had mental issues; note that the main onset of his strangeness came during the time in life when onset of schizophrenia usually occurs. I'm just saying that there are few people that are all any one thing. Finally, while many looked on him as a has-been (me too sometimes) or a glib pop music performer with little substance I suggest reviewing the lyrics to "Man In The Mirror" or watching the clip below & consider how many of those we respect had the nature to make those sort of statements. He didn't create it all (since the Beatles, no one does it all) but it was his vision. Black & White (skip the beginning & roll ahead to any of these points: 1:46 mark.........4:12 mark......5:20 mark) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZI9OYMRwN1Q That vid & the song behind it are enough to mark him as a more worthy artist than most. d=halfnote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bejeeber Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 I agree 100%. He was found not guilty. The media storm turned him into an instant pedophile, but remember that he was accused, by a woman who needed money, of kidnapping her family and abusing her kid. The kid denied that he was abused. I think folks were far too quick to jump on the band wagon. Agreed. And that kind of band wagon jumping is in especially questionable taste right when his life has been cut short IMO. Just a pinch between the geek and chum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skipclone 1 Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 It really sucks-one of my friends and teachers is on the `he should have been in prison` ride-was he there? is he a lawyer? he`s even going off about how `bleeding heart liberals` spared him from justice. Painful. Same old surprises, brand new cliches- Skipsounds on Soundclick: www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandid=602491 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 It really sucks-one of my friends and teachers is on the `he should have been in prison` ride-was he there? is he a lawyer? he`s even going off about how `bleeding heart liberals` spared him from justice. Painful. May Karma bite him in the ass and he get wrongfully accused of sexual abuse by one of his students. A bunch of loud, obnoxious music I USED to make with friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Fraser Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 he`s even going off about how `bleeding heart liberals` spared him from justice. It wasn't 'bleeding heart liberals' anymore than it was 'kneejerk conservatives'. The case was tried according to American rules of justice, & the result returned that the the evidence didn't support the charge. It takes a preponderance of evidence to convict. Right or wrong, that's the river we sink or swim in here. Scott Fraser Scott Fraser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webe123 Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Many people are a complex mix of attitudes that are sometimes beyond their control. Please explain to me how molesting young kids was "beyond his control"?? Sorry, I don't buy that crap for a second! But I agree with the others he was a one of a kind when it came to music. I don't know. I'm still not sold on the idea that he ever actually molested any of them. We all know how litigious American society is, and how "me too" everyone tends to be when they see money to be made. I don't think the lawsuits were anything but money-driven, and he was acquitted on all counts in that criminal trial. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_v._Jackson I've always been of the mind that MJ's entire adult life was spent trying to recapture the childhood he never had. He did a lot of really weird stuff, but no one has ever been able to convince me any of it was nefarious in nature. Sure, he had screws loose, and they got progressively looser the more the public pressure was applied to him. I'd venture all that stress was his undoing as well. \ Well I strongly disagree with what you say. And you can sweep it under the rug as though he was just misunderstood, but I think he was a pervert pure and simple. And I cannot believe every single one of the kids was lying that said those things about him. Sure a few maybe, but too many came forward and convinced me that he was a child molester! And even murderers are aquitted from time to time, that does NOT mean they didn't commit the crime, they simply got off on a technicality of not enough evidence. Doesn't mean they didn't commit the crime they were accused of. I think he had his personal camera system outside his room he took kids into, that watched the hall KNOWING it would warn him if anyone approached. Now explain that one! His own security staff have already said it was NOT a part of the home security system. The main security system for the home was a totally professional deal. This camera he had set up, did nothing more than warn him about people approaching his room. Kinda funny he had to have that camera there for a room he brought kids into...ALONE! And as far as screws loose? Yes I will agree on that one. But let me make one other point, some of the women in the jury that deliberated on his guilt felt he was guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt, BUT they did not have enough evidence to support a conviction and they said so in interviews. I agree 100%. He was found not guilty. The media storm turned him into an instant pedophile, but remember that he was accused, by a woman who needed money, of kidnapping her family and abusing her kid. The kid denied that he was abused. I think folks were far too quick to jump on the band wagon. I also think folks are far too quick to dismiss what might have been serious problems he had, because some woman that took him to court, turned out to be a fraud. What about the ones that never went to court? The ones he "paid off"?? Agreed. And that kind of band wagon jumping is in especially questionable taste right when his life has been cut short IMO. You can think what you want, but I think some people on this board are BLINDED by the fact that he was a great singer! And as far as your stupid questionable taste comment...I have questions about someone who thinks that standing up for kids because they can't stand up for themselves...REGARDLESS of WHO it is...is somehow WRONG! Again it really worries me that some of you seem to just think "Well he was not found guilty so he didn't do it." There are a LOT of criminals that actually DID the crimes they were accused of! They just never was able to get caught. Ask some people in the mafia if you don't believe me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webe123 Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 double post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Iverson Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 I vote we let Michael rest in peace for the time being. On the larger question: is there a double standard for judging people accused of committing crimes if the person is highly talented? There may be, come to think of it. And there shouldn't be, any more than if the person is rich or famous. Unfortunately, in this crazy world justice is not always meted out impartially. Would I ask to be excused from serving on a jury if the accused was someone who had been a musical hero of mine for years? Probably, because I honestly WOULD find it hard to be objective! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A String Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 I vote we let Michael rest in peace for the time being. Yes. Probably a good idea. Craig Stringnetwork on Facebook String Network Forum My Music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picker Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 I would give MJ one thing; he could dance. Beyond that, he wasn't much more talented than any of his family. In his solo career, he had a good publicist and some good producers. He happened along at the right time with the right video to make a splash on MTV. After that, he had the money and clout to hire the best of everything and keep his momentum going, even later with all the bizarro behavior and eventual charges of child molestation. No, they never proved the charges, but there's no doubt rich people get away with things poor people don't in a court of law. So I don't know if just not proving the charges gives him a lot of credibility. Talented? Sure, but without the best production, staging, choregraphy, and band his extensive money could buy, he was just another R&B singer with some dance moves. Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harvey Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Talented? Sure, but without the best production, staging, choregraphy, and band his extensive money could buy, he was just another R&B singer with some dance moves. Perhaps, but it takes more than talent and money to make such a dent in pop culture. There are heaps of way talented people who lack the drive, motivation and passion to pursue full time careers as performers/musicians/whatever. Guitar Speak Podcast www.guitarspeakpodcast.libsyn.com https://www.facebook.com/guitarspeakpodcast www.itunes.apple.com/au/podcast/guitar-speak-podcast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billster Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 Talented? Sure, but without the best production, staging, choregraphy, and band his extensive money could buy, he was just another R&B singer with some dance moves. About a year ago on YouTube, somebody posted outtakes of the "We Are The World" recording sessions. I dug around and found the link, but the vids have been pulled down. Anyway... The clip I want to talk about had Michael Jackson, Huey Lewis, Cyndi Lauper, and Lionel Richie. Each singer took a line, a total of maybe 20~25 seconds in the final cut of the song. Well, for 10 minutes of this clip, they cue the tape, roll into the part where Michael sings his line, and then... Huey Lewis screws up - start over Cyndi Lauper's screws up - start over Lionel Richie screws up - start over On and on for 10 minutes, to get a clean take of 20 seconds of singing. All those other singers drop the ball, repeatedly. Michael hits his notes every time, and sits in his chair while the others try to figure out what they're doing. Not once did Jackson come in at the wrong time, miss a note, cough, whatever. Buy my CD on CD Baby! Bill Hartzell - the website MySpace?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 blah blah blah he's guilty blah blah blah you're an idiot if you don't agree blah blah blah... Sorry, but there are so many contradictions in this post I can only dismiss it as being the ramblings of a troll. And, since I have a basic policy of not interacting with trolls, this is the closest I'll get to even acknowledging your post. RIP, Michael. May you find the childhood you spent your whole life seeking. A bunch of loud, obnoxious music I USED to make with friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picker Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 Michael hits his notes every time, and sits in his chair while the others try to figure out what they're doing. Not once did Jackson come in at the wrong time, miss a note, cough, whatever. That's a pretty unfair comparison, considering Lewis, Lauper, and Ritchie walked up to the mic with no rehearsal & never having heard the tune before. MJ co-wrote the song and knew his parts ahead of time, so of course he was able to lay his lines down without muffing a take. When you take all the facts into account, it's not such an impressive performance... Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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