Finally played a gig where my amp wasn't enough.

[SteveC]

Well, the 5 piece (trumpet, sax/keys, guitar, bass, drums) funky jazz standard quintet played at a new venue tonight. No PA (it's just a restaurant/bar and not really big - seats maybe a couple hundred at most) because there are no vocals so we all just used amps. I have played venues this size with the cover band, but we all go DI and sing so we have a small PA.

 

Well, it got a little loud and the GB combo was asked to do a little more than she could. Relax, I'm not rushing out to buy a new amp. This amp has performed well for me, but I have now experienced a gig/situation where I am a little underpowered (or under-cabbed) with a 1x10.

 

Although, if we continue to do gigs with similar personnel and venues and no PA, I may need to do something.

 

The crowd seemed to like us. They didn't run out of the building at least. We'll have to see if we get asked back.

[Ross Brown]

Ever since I played a gig in which I could not generate enough thump, I always bring too much. It was about the acoustics of the room sucking up my sound and not about playing louder in that case.... we are loud though. I never use all that I have (1200W head, 1x18 and a 4x10) but I never worry about it anymore.

[SteveC]

Well, I'll never need THAT much thump. You can only expect so much from a 1x10, and last night I just expected too much. It did perform pretty well considering. I was heard, it just wasn't the BEST sound. No one in the crowd noticed, but we did in the band a little.

[Rocky McDougall]

Steve, how do you think the Roland 100 cube would have handled that situation?

[yourlord]

My last gig was one where my rig was WAY too much..

 

I couldn't hear myself on stage for some reason so I kept pushing it harder and harder. From the reports (and the video), I was obnoxiously loud out front. My wife was apparently yelling at me trying to get me to turn down all through the show, but on the advice of Erik we played almost straight through with almost no stops between the songs, so we never heard her..

 

From the reports I was stepping all over the 3 guitars, the PA, and the drums.

 

700Wrms into a 2x15" cab and an 8x10" cab apparently was more than enough at that place.

 

video of the 1st song in the show (the crowd is behind the camera):

 

The "Thank you" at the end of that clip is the length of the pause between the songs.

 

*I have 1 really horrible screw up in this clip. See if you can find it. It's obvious to me but I know the song.

 

 

Edit: As I reread this it feels like a hijack attempt.. Sorry.. I meant it to simply illustrate the opposite effect, where I overpowered a venue with my rig. Lesson learned was to only use one of my cabs there..

[SteveC]

Steve, how do you think the Roland 100 cube would have handled that situation?

 

Not any better. It has the 12" but it's half the power.

[_Sweet Willie_]

Perhaps you should've held onto that Genz Benz Neo 2x12 you had back in the day.

 

What about the set-up below?

GB amp

GB cab

 

This wouldn't be too much for small gigs. And it would probably solve your problem at gigs the nature of the one you just played.

 

Plus, you've been consistently happy with Genz Benz gear.

 

Peace.

--SW

 

[SteveC]

Perhaps you should've held onto that Genz Benz Neo 2x12 you had back in the day.

 

What about the set-up below?

GB amp

GB cab

 

This wouldn't be too much for small gigs. And it would probably solve your problem at gigs the nature of the one you just played.

 

Plus, you've been consistently happy with Genz Benz gear.

 

Peace.

--SW

 

I have been consistently happy with GB gear - amazing, huh? I think the 2x12 would be a little much. Great cab though. I think a Shuttle 6.0 would realistically be more than what I really need.

 

Actually, the store here has a Shuttle 6.0/2x10 combo that I have used at a rehearsal or two and it sounds FANTASTIC. I have debated trading for it. This gig has moved me closer to doing that.

[b5pilot]

I feel it's always better to have too much power than not enough. You can always turn down so that Shuttle 6.0 with the 2x10 sounds like a plan to me. Then all bases (pun intended) are covered.

[SteveC]

I feel it's always better to have too much power than not enough. You can always turn down so that Shuttle 6.0 with the 2x10 sounds like a plan to me. Then all bases (pun intended) are covered.

 

The temptation grows. Thing is, I don't know that I'll do many of these gigs. It might be a short-lived deal. It is tempting.

[_Sweet Willie_]

I feel it's always better to have too much power than not enough. You can always turn down so that Shuttle 6.0 with the 2x10 sounds like a plan to me. Then all bases (pun intended) are covered.

 

The temptation grows. Thing is, I don't know that I'll do many of these gigs. It might be a short-lived deal. It is tempting.

 

BUT, that set-up really wouldn't be "too much" for the kinds of smaller gigs you have been doing. Flexibility is all to the good in your case given the variability.

 

Peace.

--s-uu

 

[SteveC]

I feel it's always better to have too much power than not enough. You can always turn down so that Shuttle 6.0 with the 2x10 sounds like a plan to me. Then all bases (pun intended) are covered.

 

The temptation grows. Thing is, I don't know that I'll do many of these gigs. It might be a short-lived deal. It is tempting.

 

BUT, that set-up really wouldn't be "too much" for the kinds of smaller gigs you have been doing. Flexibility is all to the good in your case given the variability.

 

Peace.

--s-uu

 

Yeah, I guess having a little flexibility wouldn't be bad. Both amps sound great, but if we do more small venue/no PA type gigs, the 1x10 isn't going to cut it that's for sure.

 

I'm kind of waiting to see what happens with venues and bands before I do something. I'm trying NOT to spend or swap any more.

[davio]

Have you considered just getting a second, matching 1x10? Modularity is the name of the game. You'd only need to bring it along on gigs like that and you've still got your micro combo for everything else. You'd get the full 300W out of your head that way rather than the 175W you're using now. Isn't that a potential 6dB more or something like that (doubling the speaker surface and almost doubling the power)?

[5 string Mike]

I am going through the same thing. My work band project thing practiced last night, and my Behringer 1x12 120W couldn't cut through 5 guitars, 4 singers and keys. I was using my Digitech BP200 as a preamp into the 'amp in' on the amp and I had the output on that buriedinto the amp. I was driving the amp real hard. I NEVER had to push that thing that hard to be heard before. I'm surprised it didn't pop. It sure sounded like mud.

 

I feel your 'not enough amp' pain, man. At least for next time, I'll just stop playing until everyone backs off.

 

So is it just that you couldn't hear it or was it drowned out? If it sounds ok out front, you might get away with elevating/ tilting it to help you hear it better.

[SteveC]

So is it just that you couldn't hear it or was it drowned out? If it sounds ok out front, you might get away with elevating/ tilting it to help you hear it better.

 

I could hear myself OK, not sure about out front. I didn't have a "trained" ear that I could ask. I was asked to turn up early in the set so I'm guessing by the time the night was over - and I thought we were too loud - I was probably getting burried.

 

I did leave it on the floor to try some acoustic coupling. Don't know if elevating it on a chair would have been better or not.

[SteveC]

Have you considered just getting a second, matching 1x10? Modularity is the name of the game. You'd only need to bring it along on gigs like that and you've still got your micro combo for everything else. You'd get the full 300W out of your head that way rather than the 175W you're using now. Isn't that a potential 6dB more or something like that (doubling the speaker surface and almost doubling the power)?

 

I have thought about this as well. People use the Shuttle 110 and also the NeoX112 as 2nd cabs. Definitely and option - and the NeoX112 is maybe the way to go. I had one for a while and it was great sounding - just a little large.

[rumpelstiltskin.]

Isn't that a potential 6dB more or something like that (doubling the speaker surface and almost doubling the power)?

 

yes, sort of. but not really.

 

it's not a matter of surface area; it's a matter of displacement. since the two 110s are assumed to be the same, the doubling of displacement adds 3dB.

 

the coupling of two cabinets together also adds 3dB. (i think. it's been a while since i've gone through loudspeakers.)

 

robb.

[Ross Brown]

Icouldn't cut through 5 guitars, 4 singers and keys.

 

How do 5 guitars cut through 5 guitars? Holy crap....

[...]

Well, the 5 piece (trumpet, sax/keys, guitar, bass, drums) funky jazz standard quintet played at a new venue tonight. No PA...

 

I'm a little surprised that it couldn't keep up with unamplified horns + rest of band. I played in plenty of small jazz combos in college that were roughly this size with a Roland cube (school of music amp) - I could have blown the horns away if I had wanted to.

 

700Wrms into a 2x15" cab and an 8x10" cab apparently was more than enough at that place.

 

Your rig is ridiculous for anything smaller than a 15,000+ seat venue. Even then it is ridiculous because you'd likely have a fabulous monitor system at a venue like that.

 

I've played a 3000 person event with my Mesa 2x12 combo and it was more than enough for me (and everyone else in the band) to hear me on stage. And the stage was ~40' x 20'.

[SteveC]

I'm a little surprised that it couldn't keep up with unamplified horns + rest of band. I played in plenty of small jazz combos in college that were roughly this size with a Roland cube (school of music amp) - I could have blown the horns away if I had wanted to.

 

Yeah, I was, too. I mean, it did "keep up" I think. Some friends said they could hear me. I didn't have a good set of ears out in the house to tell me how it sounded. I think any small amp loses a little of it's tone when you push it too hard.

 

Like I said, I'm not in a hurry to replace/add on to my "rig" right now. I'll wait and see how things go for a while. If we end up doing more of these type of gigs, it may be nice to have a little "in reserve" and a little more speaker surface to help send a good sound out to the house.

[dhomer]

Wow, personally I couldn't see me playing any gig with a 1-10". For me 2-12" is minimum. I vote for the extension cab. I'm in the process of downsizing a rig I don't use anymore. The 4-10" cab I have has BP102's in it. Those are going into a couple of Fitzmaurice O12TB's. Selling the 18 that went with it to raise project cash..

[SteveC]

Wow, personally I couldn't see me playing any gig with a 1-10". For me 2-12" is minimum. I vote for the extension cab. I'm in the process of downsizing a rig I don't use anymore. The 4-10" cab I have has BP102's in it. Those are going into a couple of Fitzmaurice O12TB's. Selling the 18 that went with it to raise project cash..

 

For many - if not most - gigs this has always been enough. Most of my jazz stuff is a lot softer than that night. I talked with the sax/keys guy today and we both agreed it got too loud. Most gigs have PA support. I usually am told how nice the bass sounds, so I don't think I have some weird conception of bass sound and that I'm getting it from a small 1x10 combo.

 

I mean, I don't have an "in your face" sound and I'm not thumpin the room, but I think I have a good sound that fits the ensemble. Maybe I'm way off. everyone seems to think I'm nut for gigging a 1x10, 175 watt combo. Am I?

[DavidMPires]

I think that for a jazz gif you have a good rig, don't see the point in upgrading. Maybe next time if you feel that you guys are going loud bring a di with you and go through the desk and use your cab combo as a monitor.

 

As for youlord, suprise me you can still hear anything.

[Nicklab]

This is one of those instances where I think a DI box might have helped out. Get yourself into the PA for the FOH sound, and use your amp as a monitor.

[moot]

I don't care what name is on the head or cab. A single 10 with 5 guitars and 4 vocals and horns? Suicide.

You're nuts for even trying.

[SteveC]

Just to clarify: it was 2 horns and 1 guitar, drums, keys and me. No PA so I couldn't use my DI. That's what I usually do.

[Nicklab]

Really? Wow. But then I've been at plenty of jams where there was a full band and the horns (not mic'd) were still audible over guitar(s), bass, keys and drums.

[moot]

Just to clarify: it was 2 horns and 1 guitar, drums, keys and me. No PA so I couldn't use my DI. That's what I usually do.

Still a lot of stuff but, if the vocals weren't amplified the rest of the group should have been quiet enough for your combo to cut it.

Interesting.

 

Regardless, here's what you do.

Buy the wife a piece of jewelry and pick up a matching cab - problem solved.

[SteveC]

Just to clarify: it was 2 horns and 1 guitar, drums, keys and me. No PA so I couldn't use my DI. That's what I usually do.

Still a lot of stuff but, if the vocals weren't amplified the rest of the group should have been quiet enough for your combo to cut it.

Interesting.

 

Regardless, here's what you do.

Buy the wife a piece of jewelry and pick up a matching cab - problem solved.

 

No vox - that's why no PA. My amp should have been enough, but everyone else was too loud. That' shy I'm not rushing to buy another cab or amp. Just posted this as it was a first for me so far with this great amp.

[yourlord]

As for youlord, suprise me you can still hear anything.

 

It's why I just recently bought a pair of ER-20 ear plugs.. The weekly ear punishment was starting to be noticeable.

 

I'll be honest and say I'm amazed my ears are still as good as they are at this point.. I've been running lots of power + lots of cone area, with guitarists running the same, for a long time.. I've developed a ringing over the last year or so, which prompted me to start using plugs. I like to feel the music so turning down just isn't an option.