Wow Posted September 2, 2003 Share Posted September 2, 2003 [quote] This is not the only amendment under attack. The 2nd Amendment is under attack. The 10th Amendment is no longer of any use. Do any of these make you mad also? [/quote]Taking away the 2nd and the 10th Amendments are prerequisites for the institution of Socialism. peak the FREAK! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wow Posted September 2, 2003 Share Posted September 2, 2003 [quote] Well, I don't know what god you worship, but it damned sure isn't Jesus Christ. [/quote]Lets try to keep religion out of it. To each his own when it comes to god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted September 2, 2003 Share Posted September 2, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by WFTurner: [b]Hehehe.... And slugs never do like it when you praise a good man they like to gang up on for something well said. Damn you guys are darn right entertaining. This is more fun than smokin cigs out behind the old High School. :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave: [/b][/quote]Nope. You really need to change your underblurb. I suspect that, if a certain individual gets re-elected (God forbid), the pledge will be altered similarly: [b]I pledge allegiance to the Bush Ruler of the United States of America And to the plutocrats for which he stands One dictator, appointed by God With liberty and justice to all who can afford it.[/b] A bunch of loud, obnoxious music I USED to make with friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wow Posted September 2, 2003 Share Posted September 2, 2003 [quote]Nope. You really need to change your underblurb. I suspect that, if a certain individual gets re-elected (God forbid), the pledge will be altered similarly: [b]I pledge allegiance to the Bush Ruler of the United States of America And to the plutocrats for which he stands One dictator, appointed by God With liberty and justice to all who can afford it. [/quote]Griff, You have gone over to the dark side, I wish the best for you. :wave: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted September 2, 2003 Share Posted September 2, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Mr.Wow: [b]Lets try to keep religion out of it. To each his own when it comes to god.[/b][/quote]No, I'm not going to allow a Sunday morning country club Christian Coalition member present to this forum what Jesus is supposed to look like. I may not be a great example, but I can certainly step up and show this man how far off he is from what he declares to be truth. A bunch of loud, obnoxious music I USED to make with friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wow Posted September 2, 2003 Share Posted September 2, 2003 Griff, Arguing religion is pointless. Wow PS: Peak is a FREAK. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted September 2, 2003 Share Posted September 2, 2003 Wow: I agree that arguing with someone who has a completely different "holy book" than you is utterly pointless. This guy, OTOH, reads the same Bible I do, and apparently has completely and utterly failed to understand its core principles. A bunch of loud, obnoxious music I USED to make with friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wow Posted September 2, 2003 Share Posted September 2, 2003 To each his own. :thu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted September 2, 2003 Share Posted September 2, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Mr.Wow: [b][QUOTE]Griff, You have gone over to the dark side, I wish the best for you. :wave: [/b][/quote]What, you didn't know I felt this way about Dubya from the beginning? Regardless of my political alignment, any autocrat taking office in this country draws my fullest wrath. That's what Dubya has defined himself as to me. An autocrat. One who keeps himself in power by exerting his power upon any who oppose him. Bush uses his financial power to exert influence on the uneducated masses. This, in turn, perpetuates his power. Thank God in heaven that the public is starting to recognize the fleecing they have been victims of. A bunch of loud, obnoxious music I USED to make with friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peake Posted September 2, 2003 Share Posted September 2, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Mr.Wow: [b]Griff, Arguing religion is pointless. Wow PS: Peak is a FREAK. :) [/b][/quote]Oh my goodness! I'd better pack it in. Hey Wow, read any good facts regarding George Bush lately? (I always hear that little bell I put around your neck going off whenever you post, signifying a change of subject away from George Bush, which, suprisingly, is the topic of this thread). "I live here" -Wow Give me the ANALOG and no one gets HURT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peake Posted September 2, 2003 Share Posted September 2, 2003 I'll presume that Wow's "Bush Facts" blinders have been turned away from the "results" of this forum poll. It appears that most on this forum (who have voted) think that Bush should be jailed. Give me the ANALOG and no one gets HURT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peake Posted September 2, 2003 Share Posted September 2, 2003 Here are more fun thoughts on privatization and profiteering. ".."...Cheney has opposed sanctions against almost all the countries that Halliburton does business in, including Iran, Libya and Azerbaijan. The one exception is Iraq, at least that is what he would have us believe.." We're in Iraq to stop bad guys. Honest. Believe...Believe... http://www.corporatewatch.org/profiles/haliburton/haliburton3.htm Give me the ANALOG and no one gets HURT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wow Posted September 2, 2003 Share Posted September 2, 2003 FREAK, [quote] I'll presume that Wow's "Bush Facts" blinders have been turned away from the "results" of this forum poll. It appears that most on this forum (who have voted) think that Bush should be jailed. [/quote]What do you mean here? Am I supposed to change what I believe because a fucking forum poll. GET REAL. I dont base my views off polls . ........and yes I LIVE HERE ya jerk off. :wave: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Flier Posted September 2, 2003 Share Posted September 2, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Griffinator: [b] Thank God in heaven that the public is starting to recognize the fleecing they have been victims of.[/b][/quote]They are? What signs of that do you see? Give me some hope here, I'm really starting to lose faith in my fellow Americans... :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peake Posted September 2, 2003 Share Posted September 2, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Mr.Wow: [b]FREAK, [quote] I'll presume that Wow's "Bush Facts" blinders have been turned away from the "results" of this forum poll. It appears that most on this forum (who have voted) think that Bush should be jailed. [/quote]What do you mean here? Am I supposed to change what I believe because a fucking forum poll. GET REAL. I dont base my views off polls . ........and yes I LIVE HERE ya jerk off. :wave: [/b][/quote]That's why I included these more solid examples about the topic, perhaps you didn't notice. ".."...Cheney has opposed sanctions against almost all the countries that Halliburton does business in, including Iran, Libya and Azerbaijan. The one exception is Iraq, at least that is what he would have us believe.." We're in Iraq to stop bad guys. Honest. Believe...Believe... http://www.corporatewatch.org/profiles/haliburton/haliburton3.htm Give me the ANALOG and no one gets HURT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stranger Posted September 2, 2003 Share Posted September 2, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Lee Flier: [b] [quote]Originally posted by Griffinator: [b] Thank God in heaven that the public is starting to recognize the fleecing they have been victims of.[/b][/quote]They are? What signs of that do you see? Give me some hope here, I'm really starting to lose faith in my fellow Americans... :( [/b][/quote]People are figuring out we're being taken for a ride. Rather than look for signs, believe this to be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stranger Posted September 2, 2003 Share Posted September 2, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Lee Flier: [b] [quote]Originally posted by Griffinator: [b] Thank God in heaven that the public is starting to recognize the fleecing they have been victims of.[/b][/quote]They are? What signs of that do you see? Give me some hope here, I'm really starting to lose faith in my fellow Americans... :( [/b][/quote] http://www.corporatewatch.org/profiles/haliburton/haliburton3.htm Nice link. :thu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Asspain Posted September 2, 2003 Share Posted September 2, 2003 http://www.fromthewilderness.com/PDF/Washpost_2003_05_16_p25.pdf - suggest you right-click and save to disc to read at leisure - 480k [b]This ran in the Washington Post, AFTER the law dept. insisted on seeing the research behind every accusation.[/b] :wave: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcskid Posted September 2, 2003 Share Posted September 2, 2003 [quote] http://www.corporatewatch.org/profiles/haliburton/haliburton3.htm Nice link. [/quote]so i read the link, scratch my head. i have to ask aside from dealing with countries with known human rights problems.(which i dont agree with), whats the big deal.? they sound like any typical large US corp. i am sure i can find companies who have given 95% of their political donations to democrats, who also reside on the same boards. if you want something to worry over i would be concened about the trilateral commision. now that bunch is scary. one world govt indeed.. Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Asspain Posted September 2, 2003 Share Posted September 2, 2003 One more to get you really feeling fierce - http://www.whatreallyhappened.com - links to international and domestic news and reports that you tend not to hear in the States. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stranger Posted September 2, 2003 Share Posted September 2, 2003 Trilateral Commission Halliburton directors, C.J. Silas and L.S. Eagleburger, have both been members of the Trilateral Commission. According to Senator Barry Goldwater, the Trilateral Commission 'is international and is intended to be the vehicle for multinational consolidation of the commercial and banking interests by seizing control of the political government of the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GZsound Posted September 2, 2003 Share Posted September 2, 2003 [b]Originally posted by Griffinator: Originally posted by GZsound: Uh, Grif...read Alchohols post and check his links. It might help in some small way with your confusion. Sure did. Most telling statistic (and it really ruins your little theory about the unemployment rate going down) is right here.[/b] Hey Grif..re read my post. I stated in fairly clear terms that economic indicators EXCEPT for unemployment were showing better news. [b]I filed bankruptcy in 1998. When lots of people file bankruptcy, the overall debt level goes down. Simple math there. You're painting an awfully rosy picture with some very questionable statistics.[/b] I guess I misunderstand your use of "simple math". When lots of people file bankruptcy, the overall debt level goes down? Let me check this logic.. If I loan you a hundred dollars and you go bankrupt and don't repay me, the overall debt level goes down? Who's overall debt level..Yours? Talk about "fuzzy math". [b]I'm saying that the fundamental core of the economy is employment. No job = no income = no spending = no contribution to what even you must admit is a consumption-driven economy.[/b] I agree with you. However, what caused the job loss? The downturn in the economy has a lot of factors to it. You are blaming the results on the administration. You should be looking at the reasons we have such high unemployment. Small business is the largest employer in our country. Taxes, fees, etc. have been going up steadily for many years. A lot of anti business legislation, higher insurance costs, etc. have caused a decrease in the number of businesses, and thus the number of employees. Government (taxpayer) corporate welfare has hurt. Huge tax breaks for companies that pay minimum wage does not help our economy. Cost of inventory and cost of goods has been higher during the last five years than it is now. It was costing more to finance parts, finance new equipment, etc. flooring expenses (check with your own retail store book keeper and ask them what your prime plus flooring rate was three years ago and ask them what it is now) have all gone down in recent years. The big government give away in the trade agreements, allowing cheap foreign goods to flow into our country. NAFTA agreements that sent a ton of jobs and business out of our country, etc. all are now having an effect on our employment numbers. We also were attacked on 9/11. The effect of that action on our economy cannot be merely ignored. Massive layoffs in the travel industry, huge amounts of government spending and certainly a very cautious, nervous and scared population. All things that would have a tendency to slow spending on anything but staple items. [b]The last administration did not just add government jobs.[/b] I agree, the overinflated undervalued dot coms, the NAFTA agreements, the phoney book keeping principals all helped create the illusion we were in simply swell times. The bubble had to burst and again, adding in 9/11, it is amazing we have recovered at all in any way. Also keep in mind we had the largest toop deployments since WWII during the last administration prior to 9/11. [b]Whose fault is that? Bush makes massive cuts in education and other essential social programs, and hands the states a swarm of new "unfunded mandates" to meet. They gotta get the money from somewhere. So they raise taxes while Bush cuts taxes and looks like a hero for doing it. Great way to pass the buck, IMO.[/b] I would love to see the figures you use to prove the "massive cuts in education" and the swarm of "unfunded mandates". Our school funding has increased at a constant rate well above the growth of our economy here in Oregon. The money to our school system here from the federal government has not decreased..ever. See, just making broad statements like the one above is not going to make anything any better. All you need to do is actually check the facts with your local school board. Insist on seeing the "all funds" budget. Check with your local taxpayer advocacy group and find out what the growth of your local state government has been compared to the growth in population and real income of those who live in your state. Read the US government census reports on population, average income, tax rates, fees, etc. against your fellow citizens. In other words, check the truth. Stop with the mantra. "Massive cuts in education", "Bush wants to kill old people", etc. [b]You said "those who are slightly left-leaning", which you have accused me of repeatedly, because I don't agree with your views.[/b] And thus you are ashamed of who you are? You hate being called a liberal or "left leaning". I wonder why that is? And you need to notice I almost always use the word "some" when referring to the posters on this list. If you place yourself in the "some" category, then yes, I feel it is silly to continue to chant the liberal mantra. I feel it is un American to hope we are defeated. I feel it is anti American to hope our economy gets worse so we can elect "your" guy. I could care less who the next president is. I want my neighbors and my fellow citizens..even you..to be safe from attack. I want you and everybody in this country to be able to enjoy the fruits of their labor. I do not want the government to take 60 percent of every dime I earn from me, tell me it's wise to save as much of the 40% I have left and then turn around a tax my kids when I leave them my savings. [b]Go for it. Enjoy your little cheap shot. As long as you believe that all who disagree with you are un-american, you can expect more of the same.[/b] What, more grade school profanity? Cool.. [b]BTW, Mark. I find it no less profane for you to accuse me and all others who find your views disagreeable "un-American jerks". "Sanctimonious fuckhead" is no worse - and if anything, it's more tolerable - the only "Un-American" members of this country are the ones that don't care[/b] Wrong and more wrong. The un-American members of this country and this forum are those who care deeply. They hope deeply this administration will fail in the quest to stop terrorism, they hope deeply the economy will continue to get worse, they hope deeply the body bags will continue to come home, they hope deeply the unemployment will get worse, etc. All so a liberal can get elected. It is these great caring individuals that I call un American. It is these individuals that I call Anti American. and as I said and will continue to repeat..if the shoe fits.. I have fought for your right to believe and to say whatever you feel. But when anybody suggests my neighbors son deserves to be killed, that more of my neighbors sons should be killed, all my friends should loose their jobs, and on and on with the liberal dogma just to support a "regime" change in the White House. I'll call those extreme few any damn thing I wish. Mark G. "A man may fail many times, but he isn't a failure until he begins to blame others" -- John Burroughs "I consider ethics, as well as religion, as supplements to law in the government of man." -- Thomas Jefferson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoneinaPond Posted September 2, 2003 Share Posted September 2, 2003 [quote] I have fought for your right to believe and to say whatever you feel. But when anybody suggests my neighbors son deserves to be killed, that more of my neighbors sons should be killed, all my friends should loose their jobs, and on and on with the liberal dogma just to support a "regime" change in the White House. I'll call those extreme few any damn thing I wish. [/quote]Mark. I think you are having trouble with your bubble. :D [quote] When lots of people file bankruptcy, the overall debt level goes down? Let me check this logic.. If I loan you a hundred dollars and you go bankrupt and don't repay me, the overall debt level goes down? Who's overall debt level..Yours? [/quote]Precisely. You didn't have a debt. The fact that you are out $100 is regrettable, but it doesn't suddenly become a debt. It's called a loss. Yorik Stone In A Pond "Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Asspain Posted September 2, 2003 Share Posted September 2, 2003 [quote]When lots of people file bankruptcy, the overall debt level goes down? Let me check this logic.. If I loan you a hundred dollars and you go bankrupt and don't repay me, the overall debt level goes down? Who's overall debt level..Yours?[/quote]Actually it means that the government now writes those amounts out of the total measured debt. [quote]The un-American members of this country and this forum are those who care deeply. [b]They hope deeply this administration will fail in the quest to stop terrorism, they hope deeply the economy will continue to get worse, they hope deeply the body bags will continue to come home, they hope deeply the unemployment will get worse, etc. All so a liberal can get elected.[/b] It is these great caring individuals that I call un American. It is these individuals that I call Anti American. and as I said and will continue to repeat..if the shoe fits..[/quote]That is a perfect example of the [b]disgusting[/b] attitude that says that "if you speak out against ANYTHING the government does, then you are a traitor.". That kind of rhetorical attack has flourished before, just as many of the kind of scare tactics that are being employed to keep the public numb and afraid now has been seen before. What greater traitor is there than the one who will sacrifice our children's blood and our billions of tax dollars and our national security and our freedom of speech and our rights as citizens and our Constitution, all for an unprecedented Coporate Welfare handout to a very select few? The words of a few people on a bulletin board call down the wrath of religious and political zealots, yet the wholesale destruction of the ideals and lives and resources of this outstanding idea called America means nothing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcskid Posted September 2, 2003 Share Posted September 2, 2003 stranger, [quote]Trilateral Commission Halliburton directors, C.J. Silas and L.S. Eagleburger, have both been members of the Trilateral Commission. According to Senator Barry Goldwater, the Trilateral Commission 'is international and is intended to be the vehicle for multinational consolidation of the commercial and banking interests by seizing control of the political government of the US. [/quote]now thats what i am talking about..Bush this Bush that...whatever.. the big picture has to do with these guys. who ever controls the money controls everything else eventually. Americans are slaves to debt period. this is an intention thing done to us, to enslave us. America as a whole (the deficit) is enslaved. we owe the FED. who do you think owns the FED. its not about armys its about the cash. the big picture is a one world govt. the only way to accomplish this is through money. there are 3 major finacial areas in the world the EC, pacific rim nations, and the US (with NAfta, now Canada and Mexico (soon South America). this battle has been going on for hundreds of yrs. Bush, Clinton, Reagan pick one all very minor players in a much larger chess game. Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted September 2, 2003 Share Posted September 2, 2003 [QUOTE]Originally posted by GZsound: [b]Hey Grif..re read my post. I stated in fairly clear terms that economic indicators EXCEPT for unemployment were showing better news. [/b] Point taken. I stand by my statement that [b]jobs[/b] are the #1 indicator of economic movement. When jobs go out the back door, economic stagnation and decline go out the front. Something I can't comprehend about the American corporate mindset. "Hey, our stock isn't performing well enough - let's LAY SOME PEOPLE OFF and make the numbers look better!" This, IMO, is the #1 reason why the economic cycles have gotten faster and faster since the capitalist takeover of this country at the turn of the century. [b]I guess I misunderstand your use of "simple math". When lots of people file bankruptcy, the overall debt level goes down? Let me check this logic.. If I loan you a hundred dollars and you go bankrupt and don't repay me, the overall debt level goes down? Who's overall debt level..Yours? Talk about "fuzzy math". [/b] Nothing fuzzy about it. The government is tracking [b]personal debt[/b]. When someone files bankruptcy, they no longer have [b]personal debt[/b] - it's all wiped out. So the government says that the total [b]personal debt[/b] has decreased. Same problem as the unemployment figures. [b]I agree with you. However, what caused the job loss? The downturn in the economy has a lot of factors to it. You are blaming the results on the administration. You should be looking at the reasons we have such high unemployment. [/b] I never said it was Bush's fault. I know whose fault it is. It's the shortsighted CEOs of American companies closing shops and moving manufacturing offshore. It's the lingering effects of the public's lack of confidence in the stock market (which is in no small part Bush's fault, for putting a corporate stooge in as head of a government division dedicated to sniffing out corporate book-cooking) which causes the corps to react by further "downsizing" in a feeble effort to impress the shareholders. There are a lot of other reasons. I never said "Bush caused it" - you read that into my statement. [b]Small business is the largest employer in our country. Taxes, fees, etc. have been going up steadily for many years. A lot of anti business legislation, higher insurance costs, etc. have caused a decrease in the number of businesses, and thus the number of employees. Government (taxpayer) corporate welfare has hurt. Huge tax breaks for companies that pay minimum wage does not help our economy.[/b] NO shit. Tell that to G Dubya. [b]Cost of inventory and cost of goods has been higher during the last five years than it is now. It was costing more to finance parts, finance new equipment, etc. flooring expenses (check with your own retail store book keeper and ask them what your prime plus flooring rate was three years ago and ask them what it is now) have all gone down in recent years. [/b] Nope. Not in the last 5 years. The prime rate has been low ever since Greenspan started panicking at the end of Clinton's term. He ratcheded the prime rate down to 3 percent by Bush's inauguration (in hopes that he could somehow prevent a recession during a Republican presidency) Sure, in the last year, Alan ratcheded it down to absolutely unheard of levels (1%?!) It doesn't help when people can't get credit because they lost their jobs. Low Prime Rate does [b]not[/b] help the job market - no one borrows money to pay workers unless they're about to go under - and no one hires new people when they're going under. [b]The big government give away in the trade agreements, allowing cheap foreign goods to flow into our country. NAFTA agreements that sent a ton of jobs and business out of our country, etc. all are now having an effect on our employment numbers. [/b] You're dead on there. Ironically, even if Bush Sr. had been elected, NAFTA would have passed. Bush Sr. was the one championing that deal. I was stunned to see Bill sign it. Just proved the point about corruption on both sides of the aisle. [b]We also were attacked on 9/11. The effect of that action on our economy cannot be merely ignored. Massive layoffs in the travel industry, huge amounts of government spending and certainly a very cautious, nervous and scared population. All things that would have a tendency to slow spending on anything but staple items. [/b] Yeah, the travel industry. The same people who whimpered for a federal bailout still cut flights, personnel, etc. even after they were given some $500B to keep their operations stable. Whatta crock. [b]I agree, the overinflated undervalued dot coms, the NAFTA agreements, the phoney book keeping principals all helped create the illusion we were in simply swell times. The bubble had to burst and again, adding in 9/11, it is amazing we have recovered at all in any way. Also keep in mind we had the largest toop deployments since WWII during the last administration prior to 9/11.[/b] Well, what's worse? All that phoney crap creating an illusion of good times? Or half a trillion dollars a year going into lucrative military contracts, creating jobs for as long as those contracts exist, and plunging the Fed into massive debt giving the same illusion? (BTW - that's Reagan, not Bush, albeit Bush seems to be heading down that same destructive path) [b]I would love to see the figures you use to prove the "massive cuts in education" and the swarm of "unfunded mandates". Our school funding has increased at a constant rate well above the growth of our economy here in Oregon. The money to our school system here from the federal government has not decreased..ever. [/b] I'll have to do some digging for the cuts I saw in the 2003 budget. Unfunded mandates? The federal government has not provided a single penny in additional funding to [b]any[/b] school since imposing the SOL testing mandates. This means that localities are compelled to jack up property taxes in order to generate the additional funds necessary for additional classroom construction, additional teachers (to bring bloated class sizes down), resource materials to help the kids study [b]specifically for[/b] the SOL tests (which means they spend their entire school careers working on passing this test, rather than actually learning anything outside of the facts and numbers on those tests - like [b]deductive reasoning[/b]) For those who don't know, deductive reasoning is the most important skill we humans can learn - it's the ability to analyze the data we are presented and come to an intelligent conclusion on our own. Without this skill, we are open to anyone with an agenda to mislead us for their own profit. [b]See, just making broad statements like the one above is not going to make anything any better. All you need to do is actually check the facts with your local school board. Insist on seeing the "all funds" budget. Check with your local taxpayer advocacy group and find out what the growth of your local state government has been compared to the growth in population and real income of those who live in your state. Read the US government census reports on population, average income, tax rates, fees, etc. against your fellow citizens. [/b] Fair enough. I'll be back with figures to back my assertions. [b]You said "those who are slightly left-leaning", which you have accused me of repeatedly, because I don't agree with your views.[/b] [b]And thus you are ashamed of who you are? You hate being called a liberal or "left leaning". I wonder why that is? And you need to notice I almost always use the word "some" when referring to the posters on this list. If you place yourself in the "some" category, then yes, I feel it is silly to continue to chant the liberal mantra. I feel it is un American to hope we are defeated. I feel it is anti American to hope our economy gets worse so we can elect "your" guy. [/b] That's not what you said. You made a generalized statment about "left leaning", which I am - I am a libertarian, but my compassion for other human beings and my disdain for the corporate machine causes me to lean slightly to the left (since the right is [b]decidedly[/b] more capitalist than the left) You then went the step too far by accusing those "left-leaning" to be Un-American. You did [b]not[/b] qualify that statement by mentioning any of the above, which I would agree would be anti-American and totally treasonous. Hence, you got a reaction out of me, even though I do [b]not[/b] hope for any of the things you mentioned. [b]I could care less who the next president is. I want my neighbors and my fellow citizens..even you..to be safe from attack. I want you and everybody in this country to be able to enjoy the fruits of their labor. I do not want the government to take 60 percent of every dime I earn from me, tell me it's wise to save as much of the 40% I have left and then turn around a tax my kids when I leave them my savings. [/b] But whose labor are they enjoying the fruits of? Their own? Or someone else's? Bill Gates does not deserve to keep his billions upon billions of dollars. He did not go out and earn those dollars himself, he rode on the backs of other peoples' labor. This is the problem with capitalism, and a pro-capitalist government. It was precisely what Abe Lincoln foresaw about the capitalist movement - that the wealth would become centralized into the hands of a powerful few (which it is - the top 2% of the earnings bracket in this country control 98% of the wealth - and therefore should be subject to paying 98% of the taxes, AFAIC) and those powerful few would use their financial power to unduly influence the government and (in his words) [b]destroy this Great Republic[/b] (which they are well on their way to doing.) [b]What, more grade school profanity? Cool..[/b] No, more wrath from a lot of very moderate people who don't fit into your liberal hole, yet still disagree with your viewpoints. [b]Wrong and more wrong. The un-American members of this country and this forum are those who care deeply. They hope deeply this administration will fail in the quest to stop terrorism, they hope deeply the economy will continue to get worse, they hope deeply the body bags will continue to come home, they hope deeply the unemployment will get worse, etc. All so a liberal can get elected. [/b] You completely misunderstand. The people that you describe do [b]not[/b] care about the country. Therefore, they are un-American. There are plenty of people out there who are either similarly pro-right, or people that are utterly apathetic and do not even so much as stay informed about the issues, never mind participate in the process, that are also un-American, because they don't care about anything but their own financial status. [b]I have fought for your right to believe and to say whatever you feel. But when anybody suggests my neighbors son deserves to be killed, that more of my neighbors sons should be killed, all my friends should loose their jobs, and on and on with the liberal dogma just to support a "regime" change in the White House. I'll call those extreme few any damn thing I wish.[/b] There does need to be a "regime" change in the White House - but we don't need a Democrat in there. That's one leg of the "regime" for the other. We need an intelligent third party candidate with strong beliefs in the Constitution and upholding its fundamental principles, and as few ties to major corporate entities as possible. A bunch of loud, obnoxious music I USED to make with friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wow Posted September 2, 2003 Share Posted September 2, 2003 [quote] i am sure i can find companies who have given 95% of their political donations to democrats [/quote]YES, its called the teachers union. :idea: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wow Posted September 2, 2003 Share Posted September 2, 2003 [quote] Bill Gates does not deserve to keep his billions upon billions of dollars. He did not go out and earn those dollars himself, he rode on the backs of other peoples' labor. [/quote].........and that "labor" produced jobs. Which came first, the chicken or the egg? How many jobs were created because of the tech. BOOM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcskid Posted September 3, 2003 Share Posted September 3, 2003 [quote] YES, its called the teachers union. [/quote]now theres a sore spot on my butt. an oxymoron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcohol Posted September 3, 2003 Share Posted September 3, 2003 jcskid, what bothers you about the teacher's union? "The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who in a period of moral crisis maintain their neutrality." [Dante Alighieri] (1265-1321) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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