Graphics card a DAW factor?

[Jazz+]

I am going to buy a 64 bit Vista Windows PC with 8 GB RAM and Intel Core 2 Quad processor Q9550 (2.83GHz).

Does the graphics card have much effect on a systems performance in a computer music studio? I don't play games.

Please help me decide:

 

256MB NVIDIA GeForce 9300, DVI-I, VGA adapter,HDMI [included]

512MB NVIDIA GeForce 9500GS, DVI-I, VGA, HDMI [add $48.00]

768MB NVIDIA GeForce 9600GS, DVI-I, VGA, HDMI [add $96.00]

512MB ATI Radeon HD 3650, DVI, VGA, HDMI [add $99.00]

1GB NVIDIA GeForce 9800GT, 2 DVI, HDMI adapter [add $232.00]

[Falgor]

It will have absolutely NO effect at all. The video card hasn't got anything to do with the audio side of the pc. As far as I know there are no audio applications which utilize the GPU processing power of a graphics card. So from those, take the cheapest one if you're not going to be playing games. The only reason you'd need a high-end card might be if you had two 30" monitors or something. Well, maybe a 9500GS. If you do play, go for the 9800GT or Radeon HD4850. Also, if you need two flat monitors which have DVI, you need to have a card which has two DVI ports.

[eric]

Why not get a Mac?

[Dana.]

Why not get a Mac?

 

+1

[Yoozer]

Also, if you need two flat monitors which have DVI, you need to have a card which has two DVI ports.

 

This.

 

Also, there are some "slower" cards which have passive cooling, like the one I have now: http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/VGA/Products_Overview.aspx?ProductID=2577

 

As long as you don't use anything on-board (they use the internal memory and are a lot slower) you should be good.

 

Why not get a Mac?

 

Try assembling an 8 gb Mac with a decent graphics card without it costing a fortune. Also, what counts is the software - that's where most of the money has already been invested in. Think of the situation in reverse - would you enjoy re-learning a completely new sequencer because Logic or DP don't run on a PC?

 

Also, because of this: http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/ - you'd have to wait until the next "one more thing" to get something nice.

[ITGITC]

I'm still a bit concerned about using 64-bit Vista.

 

There are some 64-bit hardware drivers that are hard to find.

 

Of course it depends on the hardware you plan to use.

 

JazzPlus, be sure to take inventory of the software & hardware you plan to use. Go to the manufacturer's website and be sure that a 64-bit Vista driver is available for download.

 

Unless you are doing 3-D graphics, the graphics card will mostly be used for the Vista desktop graphics - Windows Aero.

 

Tom

 

[gliderproarc]

If you do get a Mac, the graphics card will soon make a difference for a DAW. Once Snow leopard comes out, the OS will be able to use the graphics card for more then just graphics.

Note the section on OpenCL http://www.apple.com/macosx/snowleopard/

 

 

[ErikH]

64 bit vista is still poorly supported. And 32 bit vista has the same memory limitations (about 3 gig) as all other 32 bit systems.

 

The only widely available 64 bit OS on the market which is stable and supported is os X. that said, even os x is dependent on the software manufacturers to design true 64 bit software. Many have not done so, so even os x runs in 32 bit emulation mode for many (though not all) of its programs.

 

Anyway, a graphics card is designed to allow your system to process video without loading the core processor(s). But almost all motherboards have some built in graphics capability. So an addon card will only affect the sound performance of your system IF (a big if) you are exceeding the capability of your built in graphics and are therefore drawing on MB resources. If you are not loading your built in card, you will see no change with an addon card.

 

you may want to have an addon card anyway, though, if you want to support dual monitors. those are one of the best upgrades you can get to a system.

 

incidentally, i too have a gigabyte "silent cooling" card and am quite happy with it. Just be sure that you install it in the right direction so taht the heat sink will work properly. And be aware that it's a big card and needs a lot of room.

[ITGITC]

But almost all motherboards have some built in graphics capability. So an addon card will only affect the sound performance of your system IF (a big if) you are exceeding the capability of your built in graphics and are therefore drawing on MB resources. If you are not loading your built in card, you will see no change with an addon card.

 

 

Ummmmmm, no.

 

Almost all motherboards do NOT have built in graphics. Sure, some do, but NOT almost all.

 

For current computing needs with Vista or OS X, I recommend a discrete graphics card instead of using on-board graphics (built onto the motherboard).

 

Not only will you be off-loading the graphics demands from the CPU to the GPU, you will be future-proofing your machine for next-generation software which will certainly become more graphically oriented.

 

As far as exceeding the capability of your built in graphics and therefore drawing on motherboard resources, for most of the boards I'm familiar with that have built-in graphics processors, these can be turned off in the BIOS when using a discrete graphics card.

 

The preferred choice is to have a fast duo-core or quad-core CPU, a discrete graphics card, and a discrete sound card - plus 4 gig of RAM (or more if using a 64-bit OS).

 

I would never recommend less for someone using a compuer for any multimedia application.

 

Tom

 

 

 

 

 

[zephonic]

It will have absolutely NO effect at all. The video card hasn't got anything to do with the audio side of the pc. As far as I know there are no audio applications which utilize the GPU processing power of a graphics card.

 

Am no expert, but it is my understanding that a dedicated graphics card actually relieves the CPU of the bulk of graphic processing duties, thereby freeing up processing power that would otherwise not be available to the app you want to run.

 

Why not get a Mac?

 

+1

 

+2

[Mark Schmieder]

That's completely wrong: the graphics card can make a big difference. Many programs are now taking advantage of the graphics card to offload processing. Also, render time of the GUI is often the main cause of slowdowns and crashes, vs. audio processing.

[Megakazbek]

If you do get a Mac, the graphics card will soon make a difference for a DAW. Once Snow leopard comes out, the OS will be able to use the graphics card for more then just graphics.

It is absolutely not Mac-related thing whatsoever. On Windows, graphics cards can be used for computations right now, no need to wait for OS update.

The problem is, that this is just a potential possibility. For it to become real, the programs have to actually use it, and at the time being, there are virtually no such programs that are useful for musicians.

 

Many programs are now taking advantage of the graphics card to offload processing.

Yes, but they are mostly programs for scientific research.

In audio/music world there are maybe only a couple of reverb plugins that can take advantage of GPGPU, absolutely not a big deal.

[Mark Schmieder]

UAD-2 will do so. I thought Sonar had announced the same.

[Megakazbek]

UAD-2 will do so.

Will do what exactly?

[Mark Schmieder]

Will be able to take advantage of the graphics card, according to what I heard at the AES Show.

[Jim Alfredson]

Get a mid-priced card with passive cooling (for a lower noise machine). As posters have stated, you don't want an underpowered card because the CPU will wind up having to do extra duty. DAW recording programs can actually be quite graphic intensive, so it's better to have a card that is good at 2D rendering and has a nice store of RAM on it.

 

I currently use a nVidia 6800 series with 256mb of RAM with Cubase 4 and it's fine.

[eric]

J+ wants a Mac.

[orangefunk]

That's completely wrong: the graphics card can make a big difference. Many programs are now taking advantage of the graphics card to offload processing. Also, render time of the GUI is often the main cause of slowdowns and crashes, vs. audio processing.

 

Yep this is something I found out this week.. it is planned for many applications to take advantage of the DSP power in video cards to do things other than video related tasks... I don't know the exact term and I'm not sure anything has been written yet that actually does this.

[orangefunk]

From my understanding of video cards, the big guns are really all about rendering 3D images... not sure any difference can be had in the 2D domain... so as long as your not using an old 1990s/early 2000s PCI card I don't see any real bottlenecks.

 

It would be interesting to see how much quicker a new Macbook Pro would be over the new Macbook as the MBP has an uprated video facility... I don't think there will be any difference when using Logic.

[orangefunk]

My own perspective, is for Jazz+ to get a Macbook or Macbook Pro and get away from Windows....

 

I'm having a total blast with my new Macbook despite no firewire (I don't use it anyway). Everything just feels so fast... and no need for virus/spyware detection programs...

[Falgor]

Rendering 3d-images is done with processors. There are GPU utilizing renderers such as the nvidia GELATO, but the common way is to use the processor for rendering. Anyway, a mac might be the better choice if music is all you're going to be doing.

[Bill Heins]

I built my own DAW not too long ago and am very happy with the results other than my graphics situation. I also do 2D and 3D graphics and didn't have enough money at the time to get a heavy duty card so went with two gaming cards. They work great for audio work and general computing but barely cut it for my graphics work. I'm planning on getting a Nvidia Quadro Fx 3700 sometime after the Holidays.

 

Intel quad core processor(2.4ghz...not much choice at the time I built it )

Intel D975XBX2 motherboard(not built in video but it does have 7.1 surround sound....disabled in BIOS )

850watt Power Supply

4gb of 800mhz RAM

2- XFX Nvidia 8600GT XXX videocards

Echo Layla 3G soundcard

2- WD 500gb harddrives

2- Samsung SyncMaster 226BW 22' LCD Monitors( I run my graphics cards non-SLI...one monitor to one videocard)

I run a non-RAID setup as anything I install can be reinstalled including my OS- Vista Ultimate. I'm pretty good about backing up projects to DVD-RWs so there's really nothing I need RAID for.

 

A couple of suggestions-

 

If you're going to go 64bit take a look at Sonar, it will install the 64bit version for you....though with my 32bit system it still does some internal processes at 64bit.

 

Dual monitors!!! It is so nice to be able to split your apps up....for instance I run Sonar with the Track View on the left monitor and the Console View on the right. When I run Maya I have the interface on the left monitor and tear off menus and put them on the right monitor to make it easier to get to everything. In Photoshop I run the interface on the right monitor and the picture I am working on on the left monitor. You can buy an oversize monitor but you'll still wind up cluttered with everything on one monitor.

 

Cooling! I'm thinking about going with liquid cooling for this system...right now I'm running the fans full on. I also had a friend weld a support stand so that the computer sits in the stand and the bottom is about 6-8" from the floor so it's not picking up dust and dirt from the floor into the intake. It's stainless steel so it looks good too

 

Bill

 

[Yoozer]

From my understanding of video cards, the big guns are really all about rendering 3D images... not sure any difference can be had in the 2D domain...

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Core_Graphics

 

A 2D rectangle is nothing but a box seen from a single side. This is what DWM (in Vista) does, too.

[RABid]

If you are in a habit of making adjustments or moving windows while the DAW is running you need to make sure you have a decent graphics card. Otherwise when you move a window you can get static and cut-outs in your audio.

[eric]

Macbook Pro! Macbook Pro!

 

Macbook Pro! Macbook Pro!

 

Just do it! Then you'll be done. No need to ask a million more questions!

[zephonic]

Or just a regular MacBook. The $1299 model's spec is good enough for medium-duty DAW stuff. Just get a faster external hard drive for audio.

[eric]

Yep, that would work too. Seems like a no-brainer.

[zephonic]

Uhm, reading the original post I think Jazz+ is not looking for a notebook. That kind of spec requires a MacPro and that will be much more costly than a PC equivalent.

[moj]

Be sure to check the requirements for the power supply. Usually, an off-the-shelf CPU needs a more hefty ps, at least 600 watts if you upgrade to a better graphics card.

[Joe Muscara]

The trick with the new regular MacBooks are that they don't have FireWire, if you think you'll want fast external drives or better audio interfaces. This has been discussed in another thread here.

 

Other than that, yes, regular MacBooks are good. I have an original regular MacBook (CoreDuo) and I've been really happy with it. If you think you need FireWire, you can look at the white 13" MacBook or perhaps a refurb model.