Dynamics

[Ross Brown]

We are working on "Message in a Bottle". Turns out a band can play it with out any dynamics or thought to the structure of the song. Just loud and then maybe a little louder should do it....

 

Who cares what he is singing about and the how the music frames the mood of the lyrics....

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Sorry.... feeling cynical this morning. Tough rehearsal last night. I am getting soft I suppose. Now I am worried about dynamics and mood. Maybe I should try jazz..... nahhh.

 

 

[Phil W]

I think that the number one most important factor in a musical performance is groove/rhythm but the second is dynamics.

 

It can take a band quite a while to get adept at using dynamics.

 

I've noticed at the jazz gigs I do that dynamics are incredibly effective. The thing is to have a rapport with the drummer so that you two can influence everyone else but I know you have issues there. The drummer's role is crucial in dynamic changes.

 

I do play with one bandleader/guitarist who just crouches or bobs down when he wants the band to lower the volume and he conducts us like that. Thing s are better by ear though. Perhaps you could work out some kind of signals?

[Ross Brown]

It will probably get better. I did mention this to the band and they said yes yes we know.... but apparently it will take a while because nothing changed. I'll make them listen to the original a few times (more).

 

Sometimes we can just make a song our own and it is good. With this one we need to pay attention to the song more...

 

(yes, drummer is no help. Plan B).

[Paul K]

At rehearsal I try to impress upon the lads that to get quiet you have to way-over-exaggerate the dynamics. When you first do it, it feels like it's more than a bit over the top, but it's not. And YES, Ross; if the drummer can't/won't come down then it's an exercise in futility and you will need earplugs.

[b5pilot]

Yeah, you're right, dynamics can be a powerful tool to setting the mood. Unfortunately in our case we have to compete with clinking bottles and chatter and the occasional TV that somebody forgot to turn down so dynamics kind of goes out the window. We used to play that song and I don't recall that much of a change dynamically except that the guitar bows out in a couple of places making it seem quieter in spots. Oh yeah, I just remembered. I guess there is some dynamics in that the drummer plays tight with rim shots and a closed hi-hat then opens up in spots. I guess if your drummer can't do that then there is a problem.

[SteveC]

We tried a new drummer and guitarist last night. The guitar player was OK, but the drummer loved to play loud. The stuff he was doing was OK, but man, change it up once in a while. I hate all loud all the time.

[Tenstrum]

Reminds me of a guy I used to play with Steve. He was a good drummer, but could have been a really good drummer if he played softer instead of always beating the hell out of his kit. He also always complained about not being to hear the monitors. The whole time, I was like well maybe if you played appropriately...

 

Nothing wrong with hitting drums hard ( I like to dig into my bass strings as well), unless it affects your playing.

[Davo-London]

Drumming quietly is a difficult technique and takes lots of control and practice. Maybe these drummers are just no good. Or maybe their enjoyment is directly proportional to their volume. Either way, maybe another drummer is called for.

 

Davo

[DavidMPires]

IMHO Dynamics go hand in hand with groove if a band doesn't have any dinamics and plays everything at the a high volume there's no way you can be grooving...

 

That's my biggest issue with my band, althought everyone thinks we do well, I still think we could do better if we worked on dynamics a lot more....

[Ross Brown]

In this case I think the whole band is dropping the ball, not just the drummer. The guitar and vocals (and bass) need to work it throughout... Maybe we will just play it in the drunken third set and everyone will like it.... who will know....? arrrggg...!!!

[Max Valentino]

There are four neccessary components to musical expression: rhythm, melody, harmony, and dynamics. Absence of any of these makes for not so music than it does just noise. Just as a player, or a group, will learn cjord changes, melody, scales, rhythm etc., a band must concentrate on developing a sense of dynamics. with a bit of work, bassists and gtrists tend to get this...it is often not "easy" to slip into the somewhat neanderthal mentality of some gtrists---but it can be done. A real litmus test for both the ability to play dynamically and the overall quality of a bands' musicianship is to schedule a rehearsal at the lowest possible volume one can play at. Really, over-do it. You SHOULD be able to play your tunes at a level in which a converstaion can be held "over" what you are playing. It isn't easy...and be prepared for some bruised and irritated egos. You will find that doing this greatly imprves your performance at louder levels. To be honest, rehearsing at "performance level", sound-wise, is is pretty silly idea anyway. Another thing to try, as the bassist, is to "lead" the band into dynamic sections by dropping it down yourself...and make them follow. Of course, the others will inevitably stop and wonder just what the hell you are doing (so, Lucy, you got some splainin' to do...), but a lot of times the gtrists will "get it". Some drummers "get it" from the begining, but often with rock drummers, it becomes an exercise in futility.Several years ago, in my own quest to develop a wider rhythmic vocabulary, I took drum lessons. My teacher was a very reknown (and VERY good) drummer, who amazed me by playig some very complex, and intense, passages at a "conversational" level. Meaning you could have a conversation over what he was playing on a full kit (and, no, not yelling type conversation...you could speak louder than his drums...pretty amazing, as the parts were fully voiced and accurate...just soft in terms of volume.). That impressed me quite a bit. Some time later, when I was hired as MD for a project, the question of dynamics (and stage vol.) came up. The smart-assed drummer quickly brought up the point that he "cannot turn down the volume" on his drums. My retort was that if he could not, then he really could not play them very well...and that perhaps he meant to say the he WOULD not turn down the vol....nonetheless I fired him. It sounds like you might be in for some long and tiresome rehearsals with this lot...and you might need to find a diplomatic (and perhaps psychologically manipulative) way of allwing the other players to "discover" the joys of dynamic themselves (seems these things always go over better whe the players in question "discover" something on their own as opposed to be told or shown how to do it...). I might also point out that while there is nothing wrong (per se) with bashing hard on a drum set...save for the simple fact that it will wear down the player physically and ultimately lead to a shortened "career", the sound and tone of the drum is not made by how hard one hits the head, but rather how quickly one pulls the stick back from the head and allows it to vibrate. Power is not achieved by bashing, but rather from a deft lightness (altho a modicum of strength is required...). It is something akin to digging in too much on your bass and "choking" the tone. There is a "sweet spot" as the the amount of force required, or desired, for both tone and control. Unfortunately, many drummers are painfully unaware of this....and then there are those morons who relentlessly pound on open high-hats. One wonders if they were born with hearing deficiencies or just stupid......ahhhh, sorry 'bout the rant.

[Ross Brown]

Good rant... Thank you.

 

I have heard the "I have no volume knob" thing too. I played my bass at very different volumes without touching the volume knob... I thought I was clever. It was lost on them....

[Chewbubba]

I know what you mean. I've played with both types of drummers. Our current drummer gets it, but our band leader (also the guitard player) has 2 settings: loud and FREAKIN' LOUDER. He still thinks the bass should play the root chords all the time too...

[MvW]

A few years back I was dealing with a drummer of the same mentality. We had a drummer that just LOVED to hit the drums as hard as he could, all the time. When we would talk about it, he seemed to understand what dynamics was all about and the drums actually sound better when allowed to resonate and not just pounded on. He tried working on it for a while but, as these things usually go, he sank his own ship: we show up to a gig and the place is much smaller than we expected (shame on us for not making a personal visit, but I digress). So we set up and start playing and get asked to turn it down. Well, drummer boy took this as a personal assault and proceeded to play harder than he has ever played before through every song, three sets worth. When we were asked not to return, so was he...

[Tom Capasso]

Our drummer hits hard. I thought he was a key component of our volume problem. He is, but there have been times when he has:

a) played lower if the rest of the band plays lower

b) complained that he couldn't hit hard enough to keep up with us (I'm sure he was right).

 

It's a challenge. We found out he could go low by going so low that he "joined" us. While we still have to work out the right balance, it proved that he was paying attention and not just hacking away. You might consider a similar experiment to point out to your guy that dynamics can happen.

 

We play the song, and achieve some level of dynamics. For us, it might take a few rehearsals (and some discussion) before we are paying attention to the dynamics.

 

Tom

[Chewbubba]

I was a snare drummer all through school, and the only thing I remember from the few lessons I had related to dynamics. I was beating the crap out the drum, but played the piece correctly. He said "that's great, now let's try again" and he held his stick horizontally about 4 inches from the head. "Oh yeah, this time, don't hit the stick." That was tough, but taught me a lot about control and dynamics.

I also second someone's statement up there that for dynamics to be noticeable/dramatic, they must be exaggerated.

[Max Valentino]

Rule of thumb (and this applies to bassist, guitards, drummies etc.): If you cannot hear the person setup next you clearly...then YOU are too loud. It is never (I repeat: NEVER) that they are not loud enough. It is always that you are too loud. I really wish more people uderstood this......