Jonathan Herrera Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 Hey all... So, I'll be participating in a debate on the show "Soundcheck" on WNYC @ 2PM EST (11AM PST) on Tuesday, 8/12. It's about whether or not the bass guitar is increasingly irrelevant in rock music. I think the impetus is the success of bands like the White Stripes, the Yeah Yeah Yeahs, and so forth, which don't have bass players, as well as the proliferation of synth-bass due to the ever-growing marriage of electronica and rock. Obviously, the answer is "no, it's not." But the show really is after a light-hearted discussion and argument over the topic. I'll, of course, be taking the above position...my opponent, the very excellent music writer Sasha Frere-Jones, the pop music critic for the New Yorker. Anyway, tune in! It streams live from WNYC.org. Oh, and if anybody has any thoughts, feel free to post them here...I've been polling everyone I know on the topic, just to get the brain working. The scope is really focused on cool new rock music, so the obviously bass-heavy genres like R&B and hip-hop are apparently of limits. All insight is helpful. Thanks! Jonathan Herrera Senior Editor Bass Player Magazine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy c Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 Sasha Frere-Jones writes some great articles, so you have a tough opponent there. Good luck! Maybe you can take the tactic of "what will come". There are an awful lot of talented teenage electric bassists...I see them every day in my teaching. They will be playing in the bands of the future. Also once a band without a bass player gets to perform live with a good bassist, they will find it hard to go back to their bassless bands. I get feedback like that from the keyboard players I occasionally play with..about how much better everything sounds and feels with a real bass players. Recording is one side of the picture and there are some great recordings out there which didn't use bass players., but when a band walks out on stage with laptops and sequencers, the audience is likely to notice that something is missing. Free download of my cd!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenstrum Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 The White Stripes sound so much better when a "real" bass is used... Tenstrum "Paranoid? Probably. But just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face." Harry Dresden, Storm Front Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basshappi Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 The White Stripes sound so much better when a "real" bass is used... Absolutely! The last band I was in played "Seven Nation Army" and people would always come up to us and say how our version sounded so much better than the original. Back in the 80's many believed that synths would make bassplayers and orchestras obsolete and it never happened. Even today with the fantastic quality of sampled instruments. Nothing can truly equal actual fingers/bows on strings or the energy that a live musician imparts to the musical experience, no matter how advanced emulation technology becomes, and it never will. Nothing is as it seems but everything is exactly what it is - B. Banzai Life is what happens while you are busy playing in bands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenstrum Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 Ditto. Played that song a couple of bands ago and got the same reaction. Tenstrum "Paranoid? Probably. But just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face." Harry Dresden, Storm Front Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcadmus Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 The White Stripes and the Yeah Yeah Yeahs as arbiters of the future of ANYTHING in music? What about Fallout Boy while we're at it? Nobody's going to be listening to that stuff in five years. "Tours widely in the southwestern tip of Kentucky" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Capasso Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 The whole "smackdown" was weakened by the fact that so many of these non-bass bands use bass sounds. Somebody's been playing low... Jonathan held his own, but it was very civil. Sasha being a bassist took some of the oompf out of it as well. It was a good listen. Tom www.stoneflyrocks.com Acoustic Color Be practical as well as generous in your ideals. Keep your eyes on the stars and keep your feet on the ground. - Theodore Roosevelt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cthulhu Fhtagn Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 Great. In order to make auditions for my next attempt at a metal project, I'll have to learn keys. Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy c Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 Oops! I've been reading articles by Sasha for years and assumed it was a woman. I was completely wrong. I just listened to the streaming audio. Good job, Jonathan! (and Sasha!) It wasn't really a debate since the two seemed to agree on nearly everything. Free download of my cd!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicklab Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 I thought it was an interesting panel discussion. I don't think it's really all that controversial of a subject, to be honest. And the discussion went in directions that I thought it might considering the name bands that got brought into the discussion. I certainly didn't think that the future of the bass was hanging in the balance of this conversation. It really didn't seem to be a point of contention that a bass role in music is still hanging in pretty strong. It just seems that role is now being filled by other instruments in addition to the bass guitar. I think that technology has made that more of a possibility with keys and guitars. And let's be honest...keyboard bass can be pretty amazing. Witness Stevie Wonder's left hand. I think the modern rock movement of not having a bass player in the band isn't the end of the bass world. Just looking at the number of bands that have certain instruments but not others will show us all that there's really no set formula for a rock band. A lot of people associate the guitar with rock music, but going back to the beginning I can recall a major rock icon who didn't have a guitar player: Jerry Lee Lewis. And bringing that to the present day, the Ben Folds Five never had a guitar player either. Does the absence of a guitar player make them less relevent? Not really. But back to the radio program. I think one of the most salient points was made by Jonathan with regard to what a trained or experienced bassist can bring to the table musically. And I think that concept transcends the bass guitar itself, as a great bassline has been at the heart of great music for centuries. Look at some of Bach's work for the organ and it's lower register. The tuba is the bass of brass bands, and is responsible for the groove in dixieland outfits. I think we just need to be mindful of the possibilities of all instruments when you think of ensemble performances, and not just our chosen instruments. Obligatory Social Media Link "My concern is, and I have to, uh, check with my accountant, that this might bump me into a higher, uh, tax..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Capasso Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 One point that was made was about current bass players just doing roots. At that point some "non root only" bands were given, but I think this is still a valid point. As my band picks up some new material (e.g. Foo Fighters "Everlong"), I'm not always hearing "interesting" bass parts. I like the music - so I could see having keys/footpedals doing bass for that stuff. John Wetton made the same point in his recent BP interview. Tom www.stoneflyrocks.com Acoustic Color Be practical as well as generous in your ideals. Keep your eyes on the stars and keep your feet on the ground. - Theodore Roosevelt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bottom End Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 While looking for the Soundcheck pdcasts, I noticed there is one available from Aug 14th, it's the same as the streaming audio. I burn 'casts to Cd, and listen to them during my commute when I don't feel like listeing to music. Personally, I think that all these guitarist just want the musical power of groove that only a bassist can wield, but need the guitar so they can tell girls they play guitar. Seriously, in line with the first audio comments, most of what these guitarist are playing really are basslines, at least initially to establish the rhythm of the song, though they might through in some guitar solos later in the song. I think that most non-muso listeners notice the lack of a bass, if only subconsciously. Some of the gigging bass players here have pointed out the positive response that they get by adding a real bassline to a White Stripes cover. As for keyboard bass, there are tons of left hand parts that have made me earn blisters trying to emulate. I haven't really made a study of it, but I think that a keyboardist approaches a bassline from a different mindset than a string bassist would. I could be wrong. "Call me what instrument you will, though you can fret me, yet you cannot play upon me.'-Hamlet Guitar solos last 30 seconds, the bass line lasts for the whole song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy c Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 It seems to me that when I hear a keyboard bassline it is more likely to be scalar and a bass guitar bassline is more likely to be chordal. The octave and seventh intervals that we use all the time are not the first thing that falls under a keyboardist's fingers. Free download of my cd!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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