Official NBA 2008-2009 Thread

[steadyb]

[steadyb]

Here's something for the haters:

 

Kobe 101 for Grif and Dan

 

 

The 2000 seasn was Kobe's first as an elite player. He was All-NBA second team and All-Defensive first team. 2000 Kobe was not 2009 Mo Williams. And although Diesel was an overwhelming, all-encompassing force that season, it was Kobe that had 25, 11 and 7 in that muddied Game 7 against the stacked Portland Trail Blazers.

 

Yeah, stacked, as in Sheed, Pippen, Damon Stoudamire (young and productive), Steve Smith (savvy vet), Dale Davis, Detlef Shrempf, Arvydas Sabonis, Greg Anthony ... they were like 12 deep with solid-to-real good dudes. L.A. was Shaq-Kobe and the Really Good Back Singers. In that famous seventh game -- when the Blazers just seemed like the deeper, better team -- barely-legal Kobe created the lasting image of the series, the Kobe-to-Shaq alley-oop. Shaq played 47 minutes and managed a pedestrian (Shaq standards) 18-9 that game.

 

For the next two championships, Shaq and Kobe were considered the two best players in the league. How is this lost on history?

 

The thinking was, "It's not fair: The Lakers have THE BEST TWO PLAYERS IN THE LEAGUE, how are we to compete?" Think about that for a moment. The Lakers had the best man in the paint and the best man on the perimeter. Have we forgotten that "the best cat on the perimeter" was Kobe Bryant? It seems that way.

 

For the next two years -- seasons in which the Lakers won rings -- Shaq and Kobe scored about the same. And, if you were actually watching basketball, you saw that Kobe had the responsibility of facilitating the triangle offense AND being the best perimeter defender in the league. There was definitely an aesthetic and psychological effect that Diesel had on competition. Opposing teams saw Shaq getting ready to jump center and sighed, maybe dry-cried. They knew they didn't have a big man even remotely worthy of competing with Shaq. But once the game got tight and Shaq's game retreated, guess who L.A. went to? Kobe didn't get his clutch reputation from his 2004-2007 Post-Shaq/Pre-Gasol Days of early exits in the Playoffs. Kobe got his clutch-rep from those Shaq Days wins when Shaq retreated behind Kobe's clutch baskets.

 

Shaq rings? OK. If you say so.

 

Let's stop the dumb rhetoric here and now. Kobe is a Great of the Greats and Elite of the Elite, just like the big dude. He dropped 81 in a game. He's been to six Finals and won three (more than the Logo). He's been the consensus best player for about six years.

 

These next two to five games have nothing to do with it. Homeboy is legendary.

 

 

[Joe Muscara]

He was quite popular with the Olympic team as well.

So was Karl Malone.

[Magpel]

Funny thing, it's been a number of years since Kobe-hatin' was anything much of anyone did. And yet the defense never rests...

 

It is just simply common sense--no one player, even the great Michael, has ever won a championship on his own. If it were possible, Wilt would have 10 rings instead of 2.

 

The biggest factor in this series, so far, IMO, is how single-handedly Trevor Ariza has disrupted an Orlando offense that looked unstoppable against Cleveland. There's ALWAYS something like that behind a championship.

 

And when Shaq got his 4th, it wasn't just Wade--it was freaking Udonis Haslem and James Posey who buried the Mavs late in that series. It's always soemthing. There are a lot of good players, many of whom could be 20 ppg types if that were their role.

 

 

[Griffinator]

It is just simply common sense--no one player, even the great Michael, has ever won a championship on his own. If it were possible, Wilt would have 10 rings instead of 2.

 

Well, Wilt only had 2 rings because Bill Russell and the Celtics were just consistently that much better.

 

Kinda the reason why Karl Malone had zero rings - Jordan & Co were always that much better...

[Geoff Grace]

It's also funny how KG handed the Lakers a (probable) championship when he racked up his knee.

 

 

* * * It's asterisk time! * * *

 

 

2008-2009 Los Angeles Lakers* (* made possible by Kevin Garnett's knee injury)

Injuries are part of sports. Would you put an asterisk by last season's Steelers championship because Tom Brady got injured? It's at least arguable that the Patriots would have returned to the Super Bowl with Brady at the helm.

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[Geoff Grace]

Welcome back Dan South!!! Now we're talkin'!

 

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

Loving the flurry of hater posts... Jeff knows it must mean a Laker title is near.

 

I was literally scrolling down and smiling the whole way, and then this post completely nails it. Once the haters start accepting the inevitable, they get really nasty for awhile, and then the excuses start flying.

 

Just a side note: I love Michael Jordan and think he was the best of all time. I also think he was a mean person, a bad teammate, and may or may not have been caught betting on professional sports when he "retired" and then came back. And I still think he's the greatest of all time.

 

Those of you who have to search for reasons to hate Kobe (but put MJ on a pedestal) need to learn some history. Basketball's hall of fame is filled with people who were so competitive, they were real bastards as people, but I don't judge them as people. Treat Kobe the same way as you would Wilt, or MJ, or any other serious champion, because all he did was take his cues from the best.

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

Would you put an asterisk by last season's Steelers championship because Tom Brady got injured?

 

Dan wouldn't, but Griff would.

[Magpel]

qse

[KenElevenShadows]

He was quite popular with the Olympic team as well.

So was Karl Malone.

 

Nice cherry-picking the intent of the post.

[KenElevenShadows]

It's also funny how KG handed the Lakers a (probable) championship when he racked up his knee.

 

 

* * * It's asterisk time! * * *

 

2008-2009 Los Angeles Lakers* (* made possible by Kevin Garnett's knee injury)

 

 

Do you really believe this? I mean, *really*? If so, you may as well put an asterisk by every single championship won in any sport.

 

[Griffinator]

It's also funny how KG handed the Lakers a (probable) championship when he racked up his knee.

 

 

* * * It's asterisk time! * * *

 

 

2008-2009 Los Angeles Lakers* (* made possible by Kevin Garnett's knee injury)

Injuries are part of sports. Would you put an asterisk by last season's Steelers championship because Tom Brady got injured? It's at least arguable that the Patriots would have returned to the Super Bowl with Brady at the helm.

 

Best,

 

Geoff

 

And the worst part is, they would have laid waste to that cream puff team from Zona...

 

I just love how Pittsburgh gets these wussy opponents in the SB, and still needs zebra help to win the game...

[Joe Muscara]

He was quite popular with the Olympic team as well.

So was Karl Malone.

 

Nice cherry-picking the intent of the post.

LOL - that doesn't sound defensive or anything.

 

 

I'll be honest, every time I've seen Kobe talking or whatever off the court this season, he seems fine. I know that in reality, I can't judge what he's like based on what he seems like the few hours I've seen him on TV. It reminds me of people who base their impressions of an actor based on a character they play. If I were an NBA player, I'd be working the refs as much as I could, too. I wish the game wasn't played that way, but there you go. I'm impressed by Kobe's playing, and I'm pretty sure he used to be a dick (even Phil Jackson said things about their first go round together), but I'm not quite so sure if he is now. I also realize that there's a certain self-assuredness that comes with the job. If you don't think you're great, you'll probably never get to the top.

 

As far as what I think of Derek Fisher, OTOH

[SilverDragonSoun]

Loving the flurry of hater posts... Jeff knows it must mean a Laker title is near.

 

I was literally scrolling down and smiling the whole way, and then this post completely nails it. Once the haters start accepting the inevitable, they get really nasty for awhile, and then the excuses start flying.

 

Just a side note: I love Michael Jordan and think he was the best of all time. I also think he was a mean person, a bad teammate, and may or may not have been caught betting on professional sports when he "retired" and then came back. And I still think he's the greatest of all time.

 

Those of you who have to search for reasons to hate Kobe (but put MJ on a pedestal) need to learn some history. Basketball's hall of fame is filled with people who were so competitive, they were real bastards as people, but I don't judge them as people. Treat Kobe the same way as you would Wilt, or MJ, or any other serious champion, because all he did was take his cues from the best.

 

 

Not me, I am not like that. Damn Lucking Fakers.

[richwhite9]

 

 

Huked on Fonix werked fer Kobe...

 

Why was Kobe's dad nicknamed 'Jellybean' Bryant?

 

Bryant played in the old ABA along with noted casual drug users such as Marvin 'Bad News' Barnes from Providence. Barnes had his number retired at Providence last year and at the ceremony, Barnes cracked that while it takes a village to raise a child, "It took me a whole state. State police, DEA, everyone."

 

Some say if it wasn't for the infusion of ABA players the NBA wouldn't have a drug policy today. It was one of Stern's first objectives in 1983 when attendance was so far down. That whole militant, afro-wearing, coke-snorting, pill popping, reputation of the mid and late 70s ABA/NBA nearly killed the league.

 

Since Kobe was born in 1978 it's safe to say he isn't a crack baby.

[steadyb]

That's a pretty racist post, "rich" ..."white".

 

 

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

LOL

[richwhite9]

That's a pretty racist post, "rich" ..."white".

 

 

 

Note the use of 'Jellybean' in the following article--honky.

 

 

>> A former player who now serves as an NBA head coach once told me that when he broke into the league in the 1960s, trainers placed amphetamines on the chairs in front of players' lockers. You weren't ordered to take them. They were just there, like jelly beans, if you felt the urge.

 

"That's the truth; that's how it was," Joe Axelson insists.

 

The NBA had become Haight-Ashbury with hoops.

 

Before we get along, let me tell you Axelson has a history. From 1979 to '82, he served as NBA vice president of basketball operations, and for 20 years was general manager and director of marketing and sales for the Royals first in Cincinnati, then in Kansas City, and finally in Sacramento, having acquired the nickname Kings. It was Axelson who traded the best basketball player who ever lived, Oscar Robertson, from Cincinnati to Milwaukee because, according to Axelson: "Bob Cousy (then the Royals coach) and Oscar couldn't stand one another."

 

It was during his time as director of basketball ops under late Commissioner Larry O'Brien Axelson also was chairman of the Competition and Rules Committee for 15 years that the NBA's drug problem reached its peak.

 

"We never had a steroid problem that I know of back then, but there was a huge, huge drug problem in the NBA in the late 1970s and early '80s," says Axelson, 76, now retired and living in Coronado. "Drugs were so prevalent, we didn't even need to have a study done."

 

It was then O'Brien & Co. finally determined their league was starting to resemble an opium den and they had to do something. But Larry Fleisher, players union chief at the time, balked, just as those now in charge of baseball's union are reluctant to do much, if anything, to attack what has grown into a steroid scandal smearing their sport.

 

"Fleisher kept bringing up ACLU stuff and the right to privacy and we were going 'round and 'round," Axelson recalls. "Howard Cosell had a radio show then and he was going to let us have it, but O'Brien got him to calm down.

 

"We had a meeting in New York. I was there with O'Brien, Fleisher and (current commissioner) David Stern, who was our general counsel then. Fleisher was giving a speech, when Bob Lanier got up."

 

Lanier, then a player, also served as president of the union.

 

"I can tell you Lanier's exact words," Axelson says. "He said: 'We've got to do something about this. I don't want to be playing with these druggies.' Fleisher then completely switched over and we got things done.

 

"We installed a three-level program. One, a secret rehab place that both sides paid for where a player could secretly let himself in. Two, we had scheduled testing and surprise testing. Then, there was the step where a player would be sat down. Some were permanently kicked out."

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20040310/news_1s10canepa.html

[richwhite9]

That's a pretty racist post, "rich" ..."white".

 

 

Note the drugs and militants reference:

 

 

>> Over the past 12 months, NBA Commissioner David Stern has been hammering home his point that the league needed to improve its image. A fan code of conduct, a player dress code and a community outreach program have all been created in the aftermath of "the brawl" between the Indiana Pacers and Detroit Pistons, one year ago Saturday.

 

 

"The perception problem was there, and therefore it was real," says Stern. "We were focusing on that issue even before the brawl, but it certainly was an exclamation point in terms of perceptions of NBA players. We've got to do a better job of both acknowledging it and working to correct it."

 

 

The commissioner stopped short of saying the incident set the league back to the 1970s, when its image was of drugs and militants. "I didn't see that at all," Stern says. "In fact, in a funny kind of way, business was OK. ... Dress codes are a separate issue, a lot less important, but apparently more important to a lot of people than we would have thought."

 

Stern refutes claims by players that the dress code is racist but adds that race is always an issue with the NBA.

 

"Every employer has certain norms without it becoming an issue of race," he says. "It's about professionalism, respect for the game, respect for its history, tradition and the like. But anyone who would deny there is always a lingering issue of race about the NBA would be in denial." <<<

 

 

 

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/2005-11-16-infocus-nbaimage_x.htm

[steadyb]

In your initial post, you weren't quoting any article. You should be a bit more clear in some way, if you don't want the words to appear to be yours.

[richwhite9]

In your initial post, you weren't quoting any article. You should be a bit more clear in some way, if you don't want the words to appear to be yours.

 

I forgot about the SteadyB era. NBA history before 1992 doesn't count and is unfair game.

[SilverDragonSoun]

In your initial post, you weren't quoting any article. You should be a bit more clear in some way, if you don't want the words to appear to be yours.

 

I forgot about the SteadyB era. NBA history before 1992 doesn't count and is unfair game.

 

 

Unless an asterick is next to year indicating a Fakers championship.

[steadyb]

In your initial post, you weren't quoting any article. You should be a bit more clear in some way, if you don't want the words to appear to be yours.

 

I forgot about the SteadyB era. NBA history before 1992 doesn't count and is unfair game.

 

History counts. I have a problem with posts that can be interpreted as being racist.

 

If you're quoting an article or interview, I suggest you make that more clear so that it doesn't appear to be you making those remarks.

[steadyb]

Unless an asterick...

 

Spell check can be your friend.

[steadyb]

...or not.

[steadyb]

http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2009-06/47399760.jpg

[steadyb]

http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2009-06/47399774.jpg

[steadyb]

http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2009-06/47399739.jpg

[steadyb]

Go Lakers!!!