analogholic Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 Hello everyone ! I´m controlling a Roland VK-8m from a Roland JX-10. Everytime I press the sustainpedal to hold a chord from the VK-8m, and release the pedal normally to play the next chord/chords, it won´t sound... It will sound again only when I released the pedal fully. So normal pedaling doesn´t work with this combo. very strange, since: a) No sustain problem controlling any other synth/module from the JX, b) No sustain problem controlling the VK-8m from any other keyboard The input on the JX says "hold", is there any difference between hold and sustain (CC 64) ? Why don´t the two Rolands work together? The easy fix would of course be to use another keyboard, but I need the JX-10 in my live setup. What could be the problem ? All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. Arthur Schopenhauer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sven Golly Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 and release the pedal normally to play the next chord/chords, it won´t sound... It will sound again only when I released the pedal fully. Could you please clarify these statements? What's the difference between releaseing the pedal 'normally' and releasing the pedal 'fully'? Also, what pedal are you using for sustain/hold on the JX? I have some thoughts, but I'm reviewing the JX-10 manual to check something before I make any suggestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analogholic Posted April 15, 2008 Author Share Posted April 15, 2008 Thanks for answering, Sorry, what I intended to say was that only when I release the pedal and "pause", can I play the next chord, which ruins the whole idea of sustaining. As opposed to normal pedaling, where you release the pedal just before you play the next chord, to get a smooth change another example: Sometimes I layer a stringpad from my Tritonrack with the VK-8m. When I pedal normally, the Tritonpad will sound when I play the next chord, but the VK-8m will not. If I do the same procedure from my K2000, both the Triton and VK-8m will sound. I´m using a normal sustainpedal. All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. Arthur Schopenhauer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Muscara Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 Sustain? Organ?? I guess someone might do that... "I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck "The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analogholic Posted April 16, 2008 Author Share Posted April 16, 2008 Sustain? Organ?? I guess someone might do that... Yeah, I knew this was coming... Normally I don´t use sustain playing organ, but this is for a Pink Floyd Tributeband, where I have to cover a lot of parts as a single keyboardist, so I have to use the sustain... No ideas anyone? All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. Arthur Schopenhauer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sven Golly Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 Unfortunately I've been too busy to dig any deeper into this situation to find an explanation/resolution for you. At this point, I'd suggest connecting your JX-10 to a computer running MidiOx (http://www.midiox.com/) and examining the output while you play notes and operate the sustain pedal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangefunk Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 Some thoughts.. Is the pedal polarity correct? Is the pedal using a stereo jack? (some do, and it might be incompatible) Have you tried another pedal? Have you tried a system reset on the VK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analogholic Posted April 17, 2008 Author Share Posted April 17, 2008 Some thoughts.. Is the pedal polarity correct? Is the pedal using a stereo jack? (some do, and it might be incompatible) Have you tried another pedal? Have you tried a system reset on the VK? Polarity is correct Pedal is a Yamaha FC-5 with a mono jack. Tried all my pedals, same thing Didn´t reset the VK because I have done a lot of tweaking on it...besides it works perfectly with any other keyboard I tried... Thanks for your answer. All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. Arthur Schopenhauer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Prevedello Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 Did you solve your problem? To me it sounds as if the JX-10 is not actually sending sustain midi messages, but something else, say expression, volume, etc.. "There is nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right notes at the right time, and the instrument plays itself." J.S.Bach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mate stubb Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 Did you solve your problem? To me it sounds as if the JX-10 is not actually sending sustain midi messages, but something else, say expression, volume, etc.. JX-10 is from the ancient early days of MIDI. Chances are good that it is sending something not quite considered kosher. Moe --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sven Golly Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 The JX-10 transmits MIDI CC 64 for Hold/Sustain; 127 for on, 0 for off. That part is completely kosher. There are 2 potential problems at play here: 1) the JX-10 transmits an "ALL NOTES OFF" message when all keys are released on the keyboard (not quite kosher, as Moe suggested ) 2) the JX-10 can have hold/sustain (CC 64) active or off, per patch. I'll have to check the VK8m manual, but my guess it's one or both of those factors that is causing the problem. Given that the OP hasn't followed up on this, though, I'm not going to bother spending any more time on this (unless someone else has the same setup and problem? ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sven Golly Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 Okay, so I'm a sucker for a problem. The ALL NOTES OFF is what's causing the problem. From the VK8m manual: * When All Note Off is received, all currently sounding notes of the corresponding channel will be turned off. However if Hold 1 is on, the sound will be held until these are turned off. This is why we don't sustain while playing Organ. Cheers, SG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sven Golly Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 And, finally, because I know this is going to get asked, in order to solve this problem the OP needs to filter out the All Notes Off message. How? Well, can't turn it off at the JX-10; if the VK8m is used in 'single keyboard mode' it will ignore ALL NOTES OFF; that's probably the best approach. If he's using it in 'Sequencer Mode', then he'll have to filter it out, using an inline device. One such device is the MIDI Solutions Event Processor: http://www.midisolutions.com/evp.jpg Cheers, SG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analogholic Posted May 7, 2008 Author Share Posted May 7, 2008 WOW!!! I thought this topic was forgotten... Sven, thanks A LOT for your research, I´m REALLY grateful for you taking the time. I have the stuff in our rehearsalspace, so I can´t try this out until next week. AFAIK, The VK-8m is in "single keyboard mode" AFAIK, I can filter "All notes off" from my midipatchbay. I´ll get back... All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. Arthur Schopenhauer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sven Golly Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 Sven, thanks A LOT for your research, I´m REALLY grateful for you taking the time. Not a problem. I'm sure you'll be able to resolve the issue with filtering on your patchbay. For the record, 'ALL NOTES OFF' is MIDI CC 123. Let us know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analogholic Posted May 31, 2008 Author Share Posted May 31, 2008 Allright! Problem solved! It was that damned "all notes off" from the JX. I easily filtered it out in my Midipatchbay. Sven, thanks A LOT once again. If it weren´t for you, I would have to ditch the JX as a controller. All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. Arthur Schopenhauer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sven Golly Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 Allright! Problem solved! It was that damned "all notes off" from the JX. I easily filtered it out in my Midipatchbay. Sven, thanks A LOT once again. If it weren´t for you, I would have to ditch the JX as a controller. My pleasure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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