Wow Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 [quote] Sounds like the ending to Scarface. [/quote]SAY HELLO TO MY LITTLE FRIEND. :freak: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcohol Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Cochran is a very successful defense attorney. He even seems to get the obviously guilty free. Why would anyone want the Saddam sons to be defended by an attorney that has a good chance of getting them off for their real crimes? "What it lies in our power to do, it lies in our power not to do." Aristotle "A lie which is half a truth is ever the blackest of lies." Alfred Lord Tennyson "A lie told often enough becomes the truth. " Vladimir Ilyich Lenin (does that make Bush and Blair Leninists?) "People never lie so much as after a hunt, during a war or before an election." Otto von Bismarck "The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who in a period of moral crisis maintain their neutrality." [Dante Alighieri] (1265-1321) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wow Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Quit using a bunch of quotes and speak for yourself, it shows weakness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wow Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 [quote]I'd expect nothing more, or less from you, Mr Wow [/quote]Your welcome. The truth is not always pretty and P.C.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meccajay Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by fantasticsound: [b] [quote]Originally posted by meccajay: [b]By the way 200 against 4, and the battle lasts for 6 hours... Sounds like the ending to Scarface. Say, who's there builder anyway? I wish my house was built that well![/b][/quote]Point well taken.. although I'm not sure you're aware of what you just explained. ;) A 6 hour battle between those forces could only mean the U.S. troops did NOT apply overwhelming force against these Iraqis. Anyone have news reports purporting to say if this was or was not the case?[/b][/quote]Missles aren't overwhelming? Maybe not, apparantly they didn't nuke the joint. Heard a retired general last night say that they initially tried for there surrender, were fired upon, then began the shootout, as it became apparant that they were fighting to the death then the US troops unloaded everything on the building. Some missles were fired into the building and brought the roof down, but they continued fighting until finally killed. ~It seems shortly after there deaths. Johnny Cochran went on the air and voiced his displeasure as he'd already bought several ski-caps for the upcoming trail. Al Sharpton is now reportedly on hunger strike.. :freak: :p TROLL . . . ish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GZsound Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 "Deliberate with caution, but act with decision; and yield with graciousness or oppose with firmness" Charles Hale "There's nothing I'm afraid of like scared people" Robert Frost "The essence of war is violence. Moderation in war is imbelicility" John A. Fisher "A nation which makes the final sacrifice for life and freedom does not get beaten" Kemal Ataturk, founder of the Republic of Turkey. "Why sit silent and be thought a fool when you can type in a bunch of quotations that prove beyond a shadow of a doubt you are a fool" Mark G. Posting silly quotes is like quoting the bible. You can find something somewhere that backs up your argument no matter what it is or how much validity it contains. I guess if reason and personal opinion become lost and confused, posting a bunch of quotes at least makes one feel self important..I know I feel a lot better now and I'm sure you all think I'm a lot smarter than I was before posting these silly quotes.. Mark G. "A man may fail many times, but he isn't a failure until he begins to blame others" -- John Burroughs "I consider ethics, as well as religion, as supplements to law in the government of man." -- Thomas Jefferson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coyote Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Hmmm, this creates a great new addition to the ""Bush Doctrine". Don't like the leader of another nation? Declare war, and go kill the guy. Targeting specific foreign nationals for death violates a long-standing self-imposed U.S. policy banning political assassination. But abrogating treaties, laws, and conventions of restraint is nothing new for this Administration. A partial list: ABM START Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty Fourteenth Amendment (due process clause) Wanna see how some of our neighbors to the north now view us? Take a look: http://www.sinister-designs.com/essays/rogue.html [quote]Originally posted by Mr. Wow: [b]I am not going to argue this point. KILL SADDAM. and thats that. Did you forget this is a war?[/b][/quote] I used to think I was Libertarian. Until I saw their platform; now I know I'm no more Libertarian than I am RepubliCrat or neoCON or Liberal or Socialist. This ain't no track meet; this is football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Mr. Wow: [b] [quote]I'd expect nothing more, or less from you, Mr Wow [/quote]Your welcome. The truth is not always pretty and P.C..[/b][/quote]I forgot you have a monopoly on the truth. "That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." - Banky Edwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wow Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 [quote] Fourteenth Amendment (due process clause) [/quote]The 14th Amendment does not apply to OTHER countries. The rest of your stuff is flawed also. :wave: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wow Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 [quote] I'd expect nothing more, or less from you, Mr Wow ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Your welcome. The truth is not always pretty and P.C.. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ I forgot you have a monopoly on the truth. [/quote]NOPE, just my opinion. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super 8 Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by sign: [b]No, nobody has the right to kill anybody. Selfdefense is another thing, but I don't even kill a spider or a moth. [/b][/quote]You have to know you're gonna catch some shit for that statement... Do you ever mow your lawn or take antibiotics??? C'mon, man... Get real. Super 8 Hear my stuff here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael saulnier Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 There have been a number of good points here so far... I think the leading Democratic candidates should make a big splash by clearly and forcefully making the points some have offered here... That the US forces acted illegally in killing Uday and Qusay, and should be prosecuted at the highest levels for war crimes or something. I mean these guys were practically assasinated... THEY are the TRUE victims here, obviously. Especially considering this is all an illegal war anyway... There's no question we should have forced them both to surrender no matter how many of our own men and women would have needed to die to take them alive. Only NON-LETHAL force should have been used and even then... if there was a moth or maybe an ant that was in the way... even THAT should not have been done. Killing, for whatever reason, is just wrong! I think a "pretty please" approach would have been the most effective... I mean what's more fun than a show trial anyway. But WE shouldn't be the one putting them on trial, it should be the UN or even the Iraqi's themselves. No question. Yes, the Democratic candidates should clearly come out for such ideas... if they don't, they're betraying the essence of the party and aren't worthy of being elected anyway! Right? guitplayer I'm still "guitplayer"! Check out my music if you like... http://www.michaelsaulnier.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wow Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by sign: No, nobody has the right to kill anybody. Selfdefense is another thing, but I don't even kill a spider or a moth. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ [/quote]Do ya kill the roaches in your house? .....or do you pay someone to kill them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alon Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 This thread is fucking funnier than a seinfeld repeat. :D I'd like to thank all the wacky leftys and their ilk for providing me and many others with a few minutes of enjoyable entertainment. :p Keep up the good work ! :thu: alon :cool: . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coyote Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 It applies in THIS country. Had you actually read what i wrote, you'd have seen that I was not limiting my arguments to international dealings. And PLEASE explain to me exactly why the rest of my stuff is flawed. Does not current research on an antiballistic missile shield directly contradict the terms of the ABM treaty we are party to? Please make a rational, knowledge-based argument to explain your case. [quote]Originally posted by Mr. Wow: [b] [quote] Fourteenth Amendment (due process clause) [/quote]The 14th Amendment does not apply to OTHER countries. The rest of your stuff is flawed also. :wave: [/b][/quote] I used to think I was Libertarian. Until I saw their platform; now I know I'm no more Libertarian than I am RepubliCrat or neoCON or Liberal or Socialist. This ain't no track meet; this is football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wow Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 This thread is about the Iraq war and the 14th applies in no way. I got ya. :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Alon: [b]This thread is fucking funnier than a seinfeld repeat. :D I'd like to thank all the wacky leftys and their ilk for providing me and many others with a few minutes of enjoyable entertainment. :p Keep up the good work ! :thu: alon :cool: [/b][/quote]I'd like to thank you for your stimulating political insights. "That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." - Banky Edwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wow Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 How does the ABM treaty apply to Iraq? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wow Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 I stated KILL SADDAM. then you posted stuff about the 14th amendment and the ABM treaty. Your rambling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alon Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Rog: [b]I'd like to thank you for your stimulating political insights.[/b][/quote]And this is coming from a guy who accuses people on this thread for being sickos. I don't recall you bringing any stimulating arguments into this debate either, besides making up excuses for various dirtbags. Keep up the good work, im sure you and your kind will meet with great political success in the future. :D . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Alon: [b] [quote]Originally posted by Rog: [b]I'd like to thank you for your stimulating political insights.[/b][/quote]And this is coming from a guy who accuses people on this thread for being sickos. I don't recall you bringing any stimulating arguments into this debate either, besides making up excuses for various dirtbags. Keep up the good work, im sure you and your kind will meet with great political success in the future. :D [/b][/quote]Yeah, I thought some of the comments were out of line. Obviously you're OK with it. All I've ever seen you do is piss and moan. I don't have a kind and I have no political aspirations. Keep on assuming. "That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." - Banky Edwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alon Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Rog: [b]Yeah, I thought some of the comments were out of line. Obviously you're OK with it. All I've ever seen you do is piss and moan. I don't have a kind and I have no political aspirations. Keep on assuming.[/b][/quote]Of course I'm OK with those comments, i wrote one of them, lol. You qouted one of my comments as one you disapproved of. Piss and moan ? I'm extremely happy at the death of those two lowlifes. The only pissing & moaning I see here is by the usual suspects. And seriously, if one is looking for a serious political debate, this would hardly be the forum to visit. I used to come here and chat pro music stuff, which is my job afterall, but nowadays i just visit everyonce in a while to get myself a good laugh. I think Anderton is a cool guy, I remember reading his articles years ago, before I was even on the net. Unfortunately, his forum has turned into a meeting place for a bunch of amatuers, wannabes, and a political bashing ground. alon . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 You visit an internet forum so you can laugh at people? You must lead a very fullfilling life. "That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." - Banky Edwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lambchop Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 This event ruined the plans I had for my new song, "It's a new day for Uday!" :D :D :D Jazz Patrol, a jazzrock/fusion experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alon Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Rog: [b]You visit an internet forum so you can laugh at people? You must lead a very fullfilling life.[/b][/quote]Yeah, I actually do visit certain sites for pure entertainment value. ;) At least I can say I have a life, compared to all the thousand + megaposters, who must not have much time for anything else besides posting on various forums all day. :p alon . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantasticsound Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by meccajay: [quote]Originally posted by fantasticsound: [quote]Originally posted by meccajay: By the way 200 against 4, and the battle lasts for 6 hours... Sounds like the ending to Scarface. Say, who's there builder anyway? I wish my house was built that well![/quote]Point well taken.. although I'm not sure you're aware of what you just explained. ;) A 6 hour battle between those forces could only mean the U.S. troops did NOT apply overwhelming force against these Iraqis. Anyone have news reports purporting to say if this was or was not the case?[/quote][b]Missles aren't overwhelming?[/b] Maybe not, apparantly they didn't nuke the joint. [b]Heard a retired general last night say that they initially tried for there surrender, were fired upon, then began the shootout, as it became apparant that they were fighting to the death then the US troops unloaded everything on the building. Some missles were fired into the building and brought the roof down, but they continued fighting until finally killed.[/b]...[/quote]Re-read what I wrote, then read your next comments, [b]Mecca.[/b] You explained exactly my point! :D [i]They did not use overwhelming force for HOURS.[/i] If they had simply wanted the 4 men dead, then this battle could've taken 15 minutes, if that. A few missles may have taken part of the building, but our forces could have left a crater where that building stood, leaving little doubt that the brothers were dead or, having run out, been captured or killed. I didn't mean they [i]never[/i] used overwhelming force. Just that they held off until it was clear the danger was not worth risking more lives to capture them alive. It's easiest to find me on Facebook. Neil Bergman Soundclick fntstcsnd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip OKeefe Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Rog: [b] You could kill them in cold blood. I'd let the legal system deal with them, if possible. That's what it's there for. If you ignore it, you ignore everything civilised about us as human beings and some very dark roads open up ahead. Another side to this is that I haven't met them. All I know about them is what I see on TV and read in the papers and on t'internet ... and what politicians (of all political denominations) tell me. There are enough eye witnesses at murders who get the facts wrong. You and I are several stages removed from being eye witnesses ... and you'd still pull the trigger?[/b] Excellent points. First of all, we can never know everything that goes on behind the scenes. We can't know all of the intelligence information that our leaders are aware of. The likelihood of a secret being compromised is increased dramatically with each new person brought in on the secret. So let's assume some doggie PFC actually killed both sons. He obviously isn't going to be aware of everything the president is aware of, or even his CO, but he was acting under lawful orders... I would NEVER kill someone in cold blood. When a soldier is given a lawful order by their superiors, it is their duty to execute said order. That's not cold blood. The US constitution says the president is the commander in chief of our military. Congress has the power to declare war, and they authorized the president to use whatever force he felt was required. My country has put a $25 mil bounty on the heads of both the individuals I mentioned - and $15 mil on the heads of Saddam's sons. IOW, the government has sanctioned killing these people due to the state of war we find ourselves in. That's different than killing in cold blood. [b]I can't argue about military tactics but why couldn't they military retire to a safe distance and smoke them out? From what I've heard, they were surrounded and not about to go anywhere. Send in some gas to render them unconcious or something?[/b] Again, you're thinking well... but not following it all the way through. Sure, gas might have been a good option - and for all I know, they may have tried that. But I would have been very surprised if it was effective or would have been effective. You have to assume they'd have chem / bio protective gear... or at least gas masks available to them. I'm sure the commander on scene set up a perimiter around the building... but the concern there is tunnels. Iraq is full of them, and you couldn't be sure they didn't have a bug out hole available. I'd say they took a risk of them escaping as it was with a 6 hour firefight. IOW, I don't think an indefinite siege of the building would have been a good tactical decision. [b]I'd liked for them to be tried in a court of law. It pisses me off that I never got the chance to hear their side of the story and see that story scrutinised. What would they be tried for exactly? Probably not war crimes? for being a couple of bastards? What charges would stick against them and their father?[/b] I would have liked to have seen a trial too, but for different reasons. In any case, I can think of plenty of things they could have been charged with - crimes aganst humanity, rape, genocide, torture, etc. The mass graves alone would be enough to get them convicted of those things... I know we see things differently on a lot of this Rog, but I respect your opinion, and I appreciate the way you discuss things like this in a logical and reasonable manner. :thu: [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super 8 Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Alon: [b]I used to come here and chat pro music stuff, which is my job afterall, but nowadays i just visit everyonce in a while to get myself a good laugh. I think Anderton is a cool guy, Unfortunately, his forum has turned into a meeting place for a bunch of amatuers, wannabes, and a political bashing ground.[/b][/quote]Hey dumbass, if you're having difficulty finding the door leading out, I'm sure any one of us would glady assist you. I'd also bet your credentials both in the political as well as the musical realm are at least as amateur as most here, and pale in comparison to many others. Braggarts like you don't impress me... All flash and no show. Super 8 Hear my stuff here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wow Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 [quote] Hey dumbass, if you're having difficulty finding the door leading out, I'm sure any one of us would glady assist you. [/quote]SMACK DOWN. :thu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggus Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 [quote] Johnny Cochran went on the air and voiced his displeasure as he'd already bought several ski-caps for the upcoming trail. [/quote]If the WMD don't fit, you must acquit... "You can't enjoy yourself unless you're having fun." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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