controllers with adjustable velocity

[magronbass]

There are 2 keyboard controllers that I know of that have adjustable velocity curves. And I mean not just Low Mid High. Doepfer LMK series, and the Oberheim MC3000. I'm just wondering if there are other keyboards with similar featuers. Oberheim is hard to come by these days, and LMK costs an arm, leg, and a first born. (not to mention problematic fatar keybed electronics)

 

Just to clarify, this is different from adjusting the velocity after it has been converted to MIDI (which you can do in sequencer or sound module side) because you loose a lot of resolution depending on how much you adjust. LMK and MC3000 allows you change how the keyboard digitizes the key velocity, meaning the adjustments are done internally before it is truncated into 128 steps. CME may have this, but I'm not a fan of their key touch and build quality.

 

Usually keyboards have 3 settings, a low, mid, and a high. And although these curves usually work well to trigger internal samples, it's really hard to find a setting that matches an external sample library. (like a kontakt library) Anyone have the same problem?

[magronbass]

hmm, I checked out LMK2 and 4's manuals, and it turns out that from the bunch of velocity settings that they have, only 4 are actually usable. (linear, and 3 other log curves going from light to heavy touch) Rest were inverse log curves and offset curves. It would be so much easier if people would let the users tweak the curve and offset... why does it have to be so hard?

[The Real MC]

Kurzweil MIDIBoard has adjustable velocity and four curves.

 

Also you may have to adjust the curve at the receiving modules. I had to do that with my Kurzweil 1000 modules.

 

But the end result is that the curve/velocity is compatible with just about everything out there.

[magronbass]

ya, kurzweil midiboard keeps getting brought up on other forums too. Curious about it, but I'm not sure if I can find one.. And even if I did, it's way too heavy to bring outside. Dunno, perhaps there really is no way to lug around a conrtroller with passable touch and weight.

[burningbusch]

Usually keyboards have 3 settings, a low, mid, and a high. And although these curves usually work well to trigger internal samples, it's really hard to find a setting that matches an external sample library. (like a kontakt library) Anyone have the same problem?

 

Have you tried adjusting the velocity response curve within the software? It's easy in the Kompakt engine. The Kontakt engine is a little less obvious. Which version of Kontakt?

 

Busch.

[magronbass]

well, of course I will adjust the curve on the sound module side (kontakt, a VA synth or whatever) but I was wondering if there were better options at the digitizing stage since that's the best way to preserve detail. A range of 127 values can easily get bent out of shape if you "fix" it after it's been digitized. The more you tweak it, the more values are lost. It's so strange no one really addresses this issue. (except MC3000)

[marino]

Fatar/Studiologic 2001 has controls for velocity response (0% to 120%!), offset (0% to 100%), can work inside user-defined limits, can transmit minimum/maximum values, and apply one of four response curves on top of it all. You pretty much design your own customized curves.

The Roland A80 also has deep editing of velocity curves.

 

Edit:

Ooops, 4000 posts! After seven years on the forum, it had to happen...

:wave:

 

 

[Rod S]

Kurzweil pc88. I'm sort of regretting selling mine.. :S

[magronbass]

studiologic 2001 looks very impressive, not sure why they downscaled to the current 990 pro. It does sound like they do the curves and offsets after it's been digitized tho. I guess it's not much of a problem? I'm trying to do this all on the board, so that I don't have to pass through a computer just to fix the velocity curve. Trying to keep it all hardware for now, for stability issues. It's just me, but I'm scared of having a notebook (+ a bunch of breakable peripherals) on stage.

[MusicWorkz]

I thought most keyboards today had adjustable velocity curves that allow the player to tailor the response as needed.

[magronbass]

they do, just some are more detailed than others. My p-250 has 3 settings. The lightest setting is practically useless so taking that off the list, it's down to 2 settings. Medium, or Heavy. That doesn't leave much room for tweaking. I remember my old triton had 5 curves, which is a lot more sensible.

 

It's not that big of a problem since you can adjust on the synth side, but thought I'd sniff around to see if there's something I hadn't considered yet. The thing with scaling velocity values after they're converted to MIDI is that the signal tends to loose a lot of detail in the extremes (very strong, or weak velocity), which tend to be where you'd want a lot of detail.

 

Since you're essentially stretching the values, if you started with normal intervals like 112, 113,114, 115, if you scale it, just as an example, they can turn into 94, 103, 110, 122, 127 creating gaps in between that are impossible to access. With only 127 values, that's a big difference. Considering how many layers a modern sample library is capable of using (my Sampletekk black grand has 48) a considerably small gap could mean you're skipping a bunch of layers.

 

Not that it's anything worth getting paranoid over, but you know.. Maybe a good listen is worth more of my time? (Listening to Proff. Longhair)

[MusicWorkz]

Understood Magron. In that case, wouldn't it be best to set it to the linear response and adjust your playing technique. Scaling wouldn't be a factor and your touch would dictate the response thu all the sample layers.

[magronbass]

ya, I guess in the end it's easiest to adjust the sound source to the keyboard's curve.. still seems like an awkward solution since you have to potentially adjust all sound sources to that one specific keyboard's internal velocity curve. (who knows if it's linear or not) seems so much easier the other way around.

 

anyway..