Songwriting

[Trucks]

Some of the biggest Pop/Rock hits of the last 40-50 years had rather simple, every-day-language lyrics.

 

...it's also important to NOT try and be too clever with lyrics, as you just may lose your audience.

 

 

Which is why I say, "speak in your own voice." You don't get too clever among your buds every day all day long, either. James Taylor, Don Henley, Marc Cohen, Mary Chapin Carpenter all write in normal every day language, without resulting to cliche.

 

Bill

 

What do you think about abstract lyrics in a descriptive, sci-fi storytelling way... A la Jimi? Do you think something like that should be apporached in the same way? I mean, I know you can go wayyyy out there with the lyrics to the point of it becoming nonsensical... But something like "1983 A mermaid I should turn to be".

 

Hurrah i awake from yesterday

alive but the war is here to stay

so my love catherina and me

decide to take our last walk

through the noise to the sea

not to die but to be re-born

away from a life so battered and torn....

forever...

oh say can you see its really such a mess

every inch of earth is a fighting nest

giant pencil and lip-stick tube shaped things

continue to rain and cause screaming pain

and the arctic stains

from silver blue to bloody red

as our feet find the sand

and the sea is strait ahead..

strait ahead.....

well its too bad

that our friends

cant be with us today

well thats too bad

"the machine

that we built

would never save us"

thats what they say

(thats why they aint coming with us today)

and they also said

"its impossible for man

to live and breath underwater..

forever" was their main complaint

(yeah)

and they also threw this in my face:

they said

anyway

you know good well

it would be beyond the will of God

and the grace of the King

(grace of the King yeah yeah)

 

I don't doubt that Jimi would unlikely talk to his peers like this, but he creates I kind of mental image in your head which connects with what he is saying (or at least your own perception of what he is saying). It comes off more like a poetic verse, without having the usual traps of poetry in there. I really love the way he writes, and he is one of the many which I tend to hear in my head as I am writing a lyric (which doesnt happen that often)But I find it hard to not make it wayyy to obscure, or as I recently found out after having some people read a song, something which although not obscure to me, gives everybody else a different vision or idea than I had.... So it consistently came across as one thing for everybody else that read it, but something different to me... Which would tell me that I was failing to paint the picture I had in my head.

 

Do you know any reading material that could help with this style of writing? Does the book you mentioned at the beginning cover this sort of thing?

 

[BillWelcome Home Studios]

What do you think about abstract lyrics in a descriptive, sci-fi storytelling way... A la Jimi? Do you think something like that should be apporached in the same way? ...

...Do you know any reading material that could help with this style of writing? Does the book you mentioned at the beginning cover this sort of thing?

 

Pattison's books are designed to get you to write what is inside of you, and to break away from writing cliches, so indeed I believe that his work will help you to achive your goal, -if- that is what you have to say.

 

But to return to my thought about a writer being able to write..., I've got songs that are rock songs, songs that are strong on imagery (Jimi is a favorite of mine too), and songs that are straight commerical. I've even written commercials, a single rap song, and one child's lullabye. But I've been wrting for a long time... I cut my first band demo and was on the radio in 1965. I had to teach myself by listening.... now you can learn from books and forums and schools. It's pretty cool to be able to do this...to have someone like Pattison disect and explain how and why a lyric works or does not work, and to show you how to better make your ideas fit the need.

 

Bill

[Strategery]

Personally, I like writting words to music or putting music to words.

It's like a good cross word puzzle but going at it at 2 different angles.

 

Sometimes you can sit there and just rack your brain trying to come up with something.

Other times....you'll be driving down the road and it'll just come to you.

The latter is what I like the best because it's more spontaneous.

 

Sometimes....you have the wrong words for the music or vice versa.

Hey, just go into your library and do some swapping around.

 

Sometimes, you're playing it too slow or too fast..or maybe even a key change can place the proper mood into a song.

 

Sometimes, even swapping out a different instrument can make a song click.

 

How about the story of Glenn Miller and how he found his trademark sound?

One of his trumpet players busted his lip so Glenn substituted a clarinet in place and....VOILA....it was the sound that had been in his head for years and just couldn't figure it out!

 

All kinds of little stuff can make a song click, not just the lyrics.

 

Just my 2 cents worth.

 

Randy

[Trucks]

What do you think about abstract lyrics in a descriptive, sci-fi storytelling way... A la Jimi? Do you think something like that should be apporached in the same way? ...

...Do you know any reading material that could help with this style of writing? Does the book you mentioned at the beginning cover this sort of thing?

 

 

 

Pattison's books are designed to get you to write what is inside of you, and to break away from writing cliches, so indeed I believe that his work will help you to achive your goal, -if- that is what you have to say.

 

But to return to my thought about a writer being able to write..., I've got songs that are rock songs, songs that are strong on imagery (Jimi is a favorite of mine too), and songs that are straight commerical. I've even written commercials, a single rap song, and one child's lullabye. But I've been wrting for a long time... I cut my first band demo and was on the radio in 1965. I had to teach myself by listening.... now you can learn from books and forums and schools. It's pretty cool to be able to do this...to have someone like Pattison disect and explain how and why a lyric works or does not work, and to show you how to better make your ideas fit the need.

 

Bill

 

Ok, cool. I think I get what you mean, it is the ability to write which is important and where the skill is, regardless of the genre and/or style. I guess a good, and well practiced writer would not have much trouble with just about any style of writing, without having to use cliches or drivel.

 

Good thread, interesting stuff.

[miroslav]

 

3)Any other song talking about love crap.

 

Love, as a subject, has been done to death much better by the writers of great Standards.

 

Either write about the world events or...

 

....actually study poetry written by great writers the same way you would study Clapton to learn licks.

 

 

Well...it's only "love crap" if the song is done like crap.

 

I get my fill of "world events" on the dozens of 24/7 news channels.

I really don't need to hear the same world event crap regurgitated also in songs...

I actually find that writing songs about world events and politics the MOST cliché of all.

Its much harder to craft yet another good "love" song. That is the real challenge.

 

If you do a love song with personal feeling, like it really means something to YOU...

...then it will also mean something to the audience.

And...if you are successful at that, I think it is more appreciated by the masses than a song about war, or whatever.

Just look at what type of songs are the most popular...

 

As far as instrumental music...yes, it is also a great form of expression.

I love classical music, which is all instrumental (not counting opera)....and I enjoy doing ambient/trance/head music.

 

But when we talk about *songs*....IMOthere have to be lyrics and more defined structure.

To me....a *song* is something that is sung...and something that a listener can take ownership of, while instrumentals...are less defined, and harder to identify with.

Heckif instrumentals had had no titles...the music could really mean anything...?

 

[miroslav]

Some of the biggest Pop/Rock hits of the last 40-50 years had rather simple, every-day-language lyrics.

 

...it's also important to NOT try and be too clever with lyrics, as you just may lose your audience.

 

 

Which is why I say, "speak in your own voice." You don't get too clever among your buds every day all day long, either. James Taylor, Don Henley, Marc Cohen, Mary Chapin Carpenter all write in normal every day language, without resulting to cliche.

 

Right.

 

But one must accept that when speaking in one's own voice...you sometimes might choose rather *used* phrases.

 

Heck...my tears fell like rain by itself IS rather cliché...

..but if used *honestly* within the context of an *honest* song...

...it just may be the BEST phrase.

 

And I don't think anyone need go out of his/her way to avoid that...just to be clever, or to find never-before uttered phrases.

 

[miroslav]

I think too many tend to dismiss simple/basic songs as trivial or "form fed".

 

I think the best songs, the most widely loved songs...will have a certain simplicity to them...they are "easy access".

Thought they can still be well crafted and include layers of complexity that are not slapping you in the face, but are rather subliminal, and only visible to other songwriters.

 

It may no be just a question of commercial viability (though IMO, that's major point)...but also how well a song is accepted by a greater audience.

But that often ends up paying off if the audience is large enoughso you get commercial viability anyway.

 

One word TOOL

 

 

...more of an example really...

 

 

Mmmmm...not quite sure what you are saying here.....

[skipclone 1]

I think he`s referring to the band-they are pretty popular and a lot of their lyrics can wax quite baroque/florid but the meaning comes through.

 

On the other end of the scale, I`ve found out the hard way, if you can `t get a song from completion to being heard in six months, stay away from topical material. I wrote a song about censorship in music, around the time Tipper Gore, the PMRC and stickering CDs for content was in the news. It has some interesting things going on musically and doesn`t sound like a lot of my other songs. Well what happened, CDs got stickered, along comes Nine Inch Nails, Limp Bizkit and Hip Hoppers, and

lyrics got more explicit than ever and my song got rendered basically meaningless.

[Strategery]

Yeah....the NIN hook line...."I want to F$@& you like an animal" is a real stroke of genius.

 

I'm afraid I'm just not in that league.

 

Randy

[Griffinator]

....actually study poetry written by great writers the same way you would study Clapton to learn licks.

 

 

Amen. I wear my influences (lyrically) on my sleeve - e.e. Cummings, T.S. Eliot...

[miroslav]

Poetry is good'specially good poetry from the masters.

 

But writing Rock/Pop *songs*...is really not about writing poetry.

I don't think Rock/Pop tunes were meant to be or need to be

 

You can write a great, basic Pop tune..."She loves you, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah!"

 

And then also write some high-brow poetry.

 

[splitting hare]

This is a good thread.

 

I agree with Miroslav on the subject matter thing. Is there a subject matter that hasn't been covered already a thousand times? Love, hate, world issues, etc?

 

My songwriting has been extremely limited over the course of my guitar playing. Either I was always in a cover band or when we did originals someone else did the songwriting - structure and lyrics - and I merely added my thing to it. I always thought I was good at embelishing on someone elses idea - coming up with my own and adding to it has always been a challenge.

 

I have written some instrumentals which suit me fine and some others seem to enjoy them. In the rock and roll genre - how far is sticking to instrumentals going to get you? As far as rock and roll is concerned, in general, I think the average listener has a shorter attention span and could not listen to an evening full of strictly instrumental music. Meanwhile, some one who listens to classical or a jazz trio probably could.

 

In regards to the lyrics, do they have to be thought provoking to make a good song? Or can they simply accompany the music and the melody line? Yes, a good story or interesting lyrics certainly enhances the song, but it is not always necessary for me as I will listen to the music first.

 

And to me it also depends on what you are wanting to do with the music. Are you simply wanting to write a song to get folks out on the dance floor your next gig? Then something like Twist and Shout is a great song. Or is there a point you are wanting to get across to your listeners? Then good lyrics are important.

[fantasticsound]

Maybe you can teach people to write songs but there's still an "x" factor that is intangible, that makes a large portion of songs by Paul Simon, James Taylor, Carol King, Sting, and many others grab us despite huge variation of themes and methods of illustrating with description.

 

I believe it is because they are STORYTELLERS.

 

I think most of us think about the music, and lyrics are labored over whereas the artists you mention are thinking, "I have a story to tell".

 

True, and a very good point vs. those who string words together in an attempt to convince us there's some hidden meaning when, in fact, there isn't, but there are plenty of storytellers who just can't tell stories as well as those mentioned. And sometimes those who string nonsense together write songs people like. Several America songs fit the latter group.

 

Some of the biggest Pop/Rock hits of the last 40-50 years had rather simple, every-day-language lyrics.

 

...it's also important to NOT try and be too clever with lyrics, as you just may lose your audience.

 

 

Which is why I say, "speak in your own voice." You don't get too clever among your buds every day all day long, either. James Taylor, Don Henley, Marc Cohen, Mary Chapin Carpenter all write in normal every day language, without resulting to cliche.

 

Bill

 

Here, here!

 

One of my favorite lyricists is Joe Walsh. He seems to cleverly engage the listener with quirky truths in life that we can all relate to...

 

Definitely one of the most under-rated songwriters outside his early work with The James Gang and The Eagles. Solo, the Confessor album has an entire record of eclectic songs which took me a while to appreciate musically, but the lyrics grabbed me from the start almost across the board. Some are funny. Some are dead serious but not preachy. But one thing you can say for Joe's lyrics... they are definitely not cliche!

 

Let's see... The Confessor appears to be an ominous song about the fine line between living a good life or acting evil and standing in judgement before g-d. Pretty heady stuff from the self professed "Ordinary, Average Guy" and well known goofball whose best known solo cut is an ode to the ridiculously outrageous things he did as a superstar musician, lightly complaining about the complexities of that life while admitting, "Life's been good to me so far". Yes it has, Joe.

 

The Confessor

 

If you look at your reflection in the bottom of a well,

What you see is only on the surface.

When you try to see the meaning, hidden underneath,

The measure of the depth can be deceiving.

The bottom has a rocky reputation

You can feel it in the distance the deeper down you stare.

From up above it's hard to see but you knowwhen you're there.

On the bottom words are shallow.

On the surface talk is cheap.

You can only judge the distance by the company you keep

In the eyes of the CONFESSOR.

 

In the eyes of the Confessor,

There's no place you can hide.

You can't hide from the eyes (of the Confessor)

Don't you even try.

In the eyes of the Confessor

You can't tell a lie,

You cannot tell a lie (to the Confessor)

Strip you down to size,

Naked as the day that you were born,

Naked as the day that you were born.

(Tremendous guitar work)

Take all the trauma, drama, comments,

The guilt and doubt and shame

The what if's and if only's

The shackles and the chains

The violence and aggresion,

The pettiness and scorn,

The jealousy and hatred,

The tempest and discord,

AND GIVE IT UP!

[Strategery]

Hey Neil,

 

I was listening to that song just the other day.

Damn good one!!

Great intro in that song as well.

He really builds the tension in that one.

 

Yep, Joe is definitely not the status quo when it comes to song writing.

Not in his playing either.

 

Randy

[GuitarPlayerFL]

I think too many tend to dismiss simple/basic songs as trivial or "form fed".

 

I think the best songs, the most widely loved songs...will have a certain simplicity to them...they are "easy access".

Thought they can still be well crafted and include layers of complexity that are not slapping you in the face, but are rather subliminal, and only visible to other songwriters.

 

It may no be just a question of commercial viability (though IMO, that's major point)...but also how well a song is accepted by a greater audience.

But that often ends up paying off if the audience is large enoughso you get commercial viability anyway.

 

One word TOOL

 

 

 

 

Mmmmm...not quite sure what you are saying here.....

 

I think he's calling you a TOOL.

 

 

 

 

 

 

(just kidding)

[miroslav]

I've been called many things....

 

 

[fantasticsound]

On the same album you have other great lyrics that are so vastly different from that....

 

A song of loneliness on the road...

 

Rosewood Bitters

 

Too long on the road, my friend

Too long between rides

Too long between homes again

Too long without someone by my side

 

And Lord, there's something 'bout a sad song

That helps to ease the pain...

Here I am, Lord, just singing up a storm

And I'm all alone again...

 

Too much going down today

Just can't take it in

Too much running 'round today

Can't tell you where I've been

 

Seems that just like singing in the only thing to do

Only thing to help me pass the time

Songs are just like ladies--can't forget them when you're through

And they're always on your mind...

 

And the rosewood bitters

Help me meet the sunshine in the morning

And the rosewood bitters

Help me through the night

When I feel blue

 

Too few stop to pass the time

Guess that's how it goes

So sure that there's much more than this

When really no one knows

 

And easing into midnight

As the bitters pass around

Crying in my beer

Singing someone else's troubles

Help to ease your own

Goodnight, Irene, my dear...

 

And the rosewood bitters

Help me meet the sunshine in the morning

And the rosewood bitters

 

Contrast that with an amazing song by Lonestar a few years ago with a decidedly different take on being lonely and apart from family. Both are great songs, but the latter has become an anthem of sorts for soldiers deployed to Afghanistan and Iraq.

 

I'm Already There

 

He called her on the road

From a lonely cold hotel room

Just to hear her say I love you one more time

And when he heard the sound

Of the kids laughing in the background

He had to wipe away a tear from his eye

A little voice came on the phone

And said "Daddy when you coming home"

He said the first thing that came to his mind

 

I'm already there

Take a look around

I'm the sunshine in your hair

I'm the shadow on the ground

I'm the whisper in the wind

I'm your imaginary friend

And I know I'm in your prayers

Oh I'm already there

 

She got back on the phone

Said I really miss you darling

Don't worry about the kids they'll be alright

Wish I was in your arms

Lying right there beside you

But I know that I'll be in your dreams tonight

And I'll gently kiss your lips

Touch you with my fingertips

So turn out the light and close your eyes

 

I'm already there

Don't make a sound

I'm the beat in your heart

I'm the moonlight shining down

I'm the whisper in the wind

And I'll be there until the end

Can you feel the love that we share

Oh I'm already there

 

We may be a thousand miles apart

But I'll be with you wherever you are

 

I'm already there

Take a look around

I'm the sunshine in your hair

I'm the shadow on the ground

I'm the whisper in the wind

And I'll be there until the end

Can you feel the love that we share

Oh I'm already there

 

Oh I'm already... there

[Dr. Ellwood]

.

[Michael Patrick]

Personally I think the lyrics are only there to take up the space between the cool guitar licks....

[fantasticsound]

Hey Neil,

 

I was listening to that song just the other day.

Damn good one!!

Great intro in that song as well.

He really builds the tension in that one.

 

Yep, Joe is definitely not the status quo when it comes to song writing.

Not in his playing either.

 

Randy

 

All the things you mention as musical mechanics are put to great use all over that album. I especially like the sparse arrangements of several songs including I Broke My Leg, Problems and Bubbles. They set up a vibe that enhances the lyrical content.

 

Every touring guitar player should know 15 Years. This is definitely a less is more lyric. Not exactly a story, but full of identifiable imagery.

 

 

15 Years

 

Fifteen years of rock and roll,

Fifteen years on the road.

 

(Can you turn up my guitar a little bit?)

 

Fifteen years my guitar and me,

Played every song we know.

Fifteen years in a row.

I'm not as young as I used to be but I still can rock and roll.

 

Fifteen years been good to me,

Fifteen in a row.

 

Look through the crowd for the folks I know,

Fifteen years on the road.

Fifteen years they have stood by me,

Fifteen in a row.

If its a show they want, its a show theyll see here we go.

 

Fifteen books, fifteen years of old,

Then I hit some luck,

Spent it all on rock and roll, booze, sex, and drugs.

God bless the roadies and god bless me.

God bless the roadies and god bless... me.

 

I Broke My Leg is one of the most hilarious relationship songs you'll ever hear.

 

I Broke My Leg

 

I met my baby in a shopping mall.

In a shopping mall.

I asked my baby for her number,

In case I called her up,

 

In case I called her up.

 

I called my baby on the telephone,

I said, Uh.. Hello?

on the telephone.

I took my baby to the movies,

Sat in the front row.

Got her some popcorn, bought her some bon bons.

We sat in the front row.

 

I took my baby out to dinner,

A table just for two,

 

a table just for two.

 

I took my baby to Las Vegas,

Chartered a private plane.

We took some naps, we shot some craps,

Chartered a private plane.

I took her shopping, next thing I know,

I took my baby to Aspen,

(Percussion as sound effects of a crash.)

I broke my leg, she fell in love.

I broke my leg,

I got a letter from my ex-baby today.. (spoken by Rick The Bass Player) Nice!

 

How much simpler can you describe a relationship?

[Dr. Ellwood]

.

[BillWelcome Home Studios]

Heck...my tears fell like rain by itself IS rather cliché...

..but if used *honestly* within the context of an *honest* song...

...it just may be the BEST phrase.

 

If you go back to what I originally said, it had to do with the endless stringing together of cliched lines.... line after line of lines that you've heard before. Not an original nor honest feeling in the whole song. THAT is what i am talking about.

 

Bill

[Strategery]

How about a proper case of Chronic Lyrichosis?

 

She was a fax machine

She kept her modem clean

She was the best damn woman

That I, ever seen.

 

She had me circumsized

Tellin' me no lies

Knockin' me out

With those American thighs.

 

:D

[Eric Iverson]

Aimee Mann had a great article in old Guitar Player about cliches she endeavored to avoid, such rambling from town to town, queen of hearts etc. I'll try to find it, and pass it on if anyone is interested.

 

It's cool to avoid cliches, if you can still get your point across. Same as in the instrumental parts. Originality is great if it's worth listening to, and has meaning emotionally that you can relate to.

 

 

[GuitarPlayerFL]

Here are some lyrics for you.

 

 

Reunion - Life Is A Rock But The Radio Rolled Me

 

 

B.B. Bumble and the Stingers;

Martha Hooper; Ray Charles Singers

Lonnie Mac & Twangin Eddie;

Heres my ring: were goin steady.

Take it easy; take me higher;

Liar, liar, house on fire;

Loco-motion; Poco Pashion;

Deeper Purple; Satisfaction;

Baby, baby; gotta, gotta; gimme, gimme; gettin hotter;

Sammys cookin; Lesleys Gorey;

Ritchie Valens; End of story.

Mahavishnu; Fujiyama;

Karma Sutra; Rahma Lama;

Richard Perry; Spector;

Barry Righteous; Archies; Nillson, Harry;

Shimmy, shimmy, coco-bop

And Fats is back and finger-poppin;

Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me!

Gotta turn it up louder, so my DJ told me! (Whoop! Whoop!)

Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me! (Life is a rock; life is a rock.)

At the end of my rainbow lies a golden oldie.

 

FM/AM; hits are clickin

While the clock is tock-a-tickin;

Friends and Romans: salutations;

Brenda and the Tabulations;

Carly Simon; I behold her;

Rolling Stoning; centerfolder;

Johnny Cash and Johnny Rivers;

Cant stop now - Ive got the shivers;

Mungo Jerry;

Peter-peter, Paul and Paul and Mary-mary;

Dr. John; the nightly tripper;

Doris Day and Jack the Ripper;

Gotta go soon; gotta swelter;

Leon Russel; Gimme Shelter;

Miracles in smokey places;

Slide guitars and Fender basses;

Mushroom omelet; Bonnie Bramlett;

Wilson Pickett;

Stomp it kick it;

Life is a rock, but the radio-

Life is a rock, but the radio Whoooo!

(Whoop! Whoop! Whoop!)

(Whoop! Whoop! Whoop!)

 

Arthur Janov; Primal Scream;

Hawkins, Jay and Dale and Ronnie;

Kookla, Fran, and Norman Okla;

Denver, John, and Osmond, Donnie;

JJ Cale and ZZ Top and LL Bean and DD Dinah;

David Bowie, Steely Dan, and Sing me proud;

Oh, CC Rider;

Edgar Winter; Joanie Summers;

Ides of March and Johnny Thunder;

Eric Clapton; pedal wah-wah; Steven Foster;

Do-da, do-da;

Good Vibrations; Help Me Rhonda;

Surfer Girl and Little Honda;

Tighter, tighter; Honey, honey;

Sugar, Sugar; Yummy, yummy;

CBS and Warner Brothers,

RCA and all the others;

Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me!

Gotta turn it up louder, so my DJ told me! Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Whoa!

Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me! (Life is a rock.)

At the end of my rainbow lies a golden oldie.

Listen! Remember! Theyre playin our song.

Rocket; socket; Alan Freed me;

Murray Kaufman tried to lead me;

Fish and swim and Boston monkey;

Make it bad and play it FUNKY!

 

Freddie King and Albert King and BB King and frolicking

Get it on; **************** lordy; Yellin hearty!

 

Theres a perfect **********; words of Randy Newman;

One, two, three; so ********** please, I need a breather!

 

Tito Fuente; *********** Cuba ********;

*************************** brass!

 

Whoooo!

California; ******; Atlanta;

New York City; Transylvania;

*************************;

*************** and ***; oh, yea-a-a-a-ah, YEAH!

 

 

[The Bear Jew]

You can also look at this from an oppositional point of view. In my last rock/metal band, I wrote a lot of the lyrical hooks, and every song had a sing- (or shout-) along chorus. We had songs about all kinds of things--rebellion, vengeance, addiction, betrayal, love, temptation, whatever. We always had to have a lyrical hook of some kind.

 

After that band folded, I joined another band on bass, and I didn't do as much lyric writing, but we still always had big choruses (chori?)

 

Now I'm in a new band, and I'm back to writing and singing again, and, while I'm not totally ruling them out, I've almost totally done away with writing sing-along, catchy choruses. I'm just bored with them. I could easily go back to that style again if I wanted, but I'm frankly more interested in just making my lyrical point and letting the hook be something instrumental. It feels good to not be enslaved by the responsibility of fabricating a hooky chorus for every song. It's liberating.

 

These days, I'm having more fun just creating lyrical images and making my point without hammering into people's heads with a chorus. It's actually more of a challenge and more interesting to do things this way for me.

 

I try to write the way I talk, and I just look for ways to subvert typical cliche expressions by flipping them on their ears to reverse their meanings or just give folks something to think about. Remember, "Hard Day's Night" was a Ringo-ism that, while a catchy expression, doesn't actually really mean anything... and yet, somehow, it's incredibly compelling.

 

 

[miroslav]

Heck...my tears fell like rain by itself IS rather cliché...

..but if used *honestly* within the context of an *honest* song...

...it just may be the BEST phrase.

 

If you go back to what I originally said, it had to do with the endless stringing together of cliched lines.... line after line of lines that you've heard before. Not an original nor honest feeling in the whole song. THAT is what i am talking about.

 

I was agreeing with you,and then also speaking in general and not really rebutting your comments directly.

 

I know what you mean about how some songwriters string together many overused phrases just to make a song.

Yes...that's surely NOT coming honestly from the heart and in ones own words.

 

[miroslav]

... I'm frankly more interested in just making my lyrical point and letting the hook be something instrumental. It feels good to not be enslaved by the responsibility of fabricating a hooky chorus for every song. It's liberating.

 

I agree...a hook need not just be a repeating lyric.

You can do a lot of hooks with instrumental lines.

 

But I don't really see that it's a "responsibility of fabricating a hooky chorus for every song".

To me...it's not about fabricating anything at all.

 

Sure....if you feel that's what you are doing...then by all means, get away from it.

But I see it as song crafting, not fabricating.

OK...some my say it's the same thing...but I think "fabrication" has a certain fakeness associated with it...as though you are lying.

But when I sit there for a few hours trying to find a hooky chorus/phrase that works well with the rest of the song...AND...that also brings across the exact meaning/message I am feeling...

...that to me is good songwriting.

 

I agree, it sometimes may feel like you are enslaved...as sometimes it is very hard work trying to come up with meaningful lyrics that come from the heart, but that also have that rhyme and that hook going just the right way.

IMO....that IS what makes for great Pop songs that have mass appeal and that are very commercially viable.

 

[splitting hare]

Here are some lyrics for you.

 

 

Reunion - Life Is A Rock But The Radio Rolled Me

 

 

 

YEAH!!! :thu:

I remember that one! I still have the K-tel record I first heard that song on. Scratched it all to hell trying to figure out the words to that song!

[Fumblyfingers]

I have a ton of great lyrics....I am not gonna tell any of you what they are though...you guys would steal them and go make a million off my ideas...no way Jose!