Jode Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 I had a delicious plate of irony for breakfast this morning. Turns out that if Orrin Hatch gets his way, HIS computer will be the first one blown up under new piracy laws, because his website is running on an unlicensed copy of JavaScript! Ahhh-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,59305,00.html "I had to have something, and it wasn't there. I couldn't go down the street and buy it, so I built it." Les Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GZsound Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 So what's the point? Everybody does it so it must be O.K. to steal anything anytime...after all, everybody does it. Things will get better when we have perfect people in office who never make mistakes and who have never hired or been associated with anyone that has ever made a mistake. After all, I'm as sure that Mr. Hatch is personally involved in his web site as I am that Mr. Bush is personally wandering around Iraq looking for WMD. I love the concept though. Attack the cop, not the perp..after all, everybody does it. Mark G. "A man may fail many times, but he isn't a failure until he begins to blame others" -- John Burroughs "I consider ethics, as well as religion, as supplements to law in the government of man." -- Thomas Jefferson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultravibe Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 That isn't really the point. Senator Hatch is in charge of the operations surrounding his office and should make it clear that the ideals he espouses are enforced by his leadership. And at the bottom of the article, it goes on to explain some larger companies are doing the same thing. Think Senator Hatch will endorse blowing up the servers for Continental Airlines website? I doubt it. What's good for the goose... Andrew Mazzocchi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franknputer Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 I think the point is that people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Funny how, when certain high-profile people who use their status to berate other peoples' sins get caught with egg on their faces, some people will rush to dismiss THAT person's particular "mistake". :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wow Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 If he were a Donkey instead of a Elephant, it would not be an issue. :wave: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoneinaPond Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 [quote] If he were a Donkey instead of a Elephant, it would not be an issue. [/quote]So that explains why the Senate is such a zoo? ;) Yorik Stone In A Pond "Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wow Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 Yep, right next to Micheal Jackson. :eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoneinaPond Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 [quote] Yep, right new to Micheal Jackson. [/quote]Are you going to edit that? Yorik Stone In A Pond "Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wow Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 Should I? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wow Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 OH, I get it. LOL LOL. :freak: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franknputer Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Mr. Wow: [b]If he were a Donkey instead of a Elephant, it would not be an issue. :wave: [/b][/quote]Bull. :wave: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotown Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 It's old news covered on a thread abotu ten days ago. Besides, Mr. Hatch didn't design his website. He is a goof, but this one isn't his fault. Jotown:) "It's all good: Except when it's Great" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultravibe Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 JO: I understand that it isn't his fault. I do websites. I understand the client/designer relationship. Again, not the point. The point is that Hatch's office deferred calls and basically avoided the issue that he supposedly feels so damn strongly about. Sorry, but I'm sick of seeing members of our government calling for harsh penalties on common folk, and then trying to sidestep the issue when they are called on it. (This isn't as bad as the congressmen who call for harsh penalties for drug users but then use their political clout to get their own children off of charges for the same shit... but the idea is the same.) Andrew Mazzocchi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Flier Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 Yeah, and like we said on the previous thread - that's the whole point is that it wasn't his fault, yet under his own proposed law, he would have been penalized. As would lots of other innocent folks who have MP3's on their hard drives legally and share files legally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip OKeefe Posted June 27, 2003 Share Posted June 27, 2003 Hey Lee, I see you took my suggestion for the "Moderator AND High Priestess..." title. It looks good! :thu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super 8 Posted June 27, 2003 Share Posted June 27, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Ultravibe: [b] The point is that Hatch's office deferred calls and basically avoided the issue that he supposedly feels so damn strongly about. Sorry, but I'm sick of seeing members of our government calling for harsh penalties on common folk, and then trying to sidestep the issue when they are called on it. [/b][/quote]That's right, brutha! You tell it like it is! I know thats right! :thu: [quote]Originally posted by Lee Flier: [b]that's the whole point is that it wasn't his fault, yet under his own proposed law, he would have been penalized. [/b][/quote]Yes! Preach that word, sister! TESTIFY! TESTIFY!!! :thu: :thu: Super 8 Hear my stuff here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jode Posted June 27, 2003 Author Share Posted June 27, 2003 I had a flash. I've got a way to get writers and publishers paid for downloads, and STILL stick it to the RIAA mafia. Who knows what "mechanical royalties" are? They're the royalties paid to writers and publishers when music is played on the radio and TV. In the old days before radio, the only way to get paid for use of your music was sheet music sales. When radio came along, the technology outran the regulation, and someone had to invent mechanical royalties. Why not get ASCAP and BMI involved in collecting some form of cyber-royalty? You pay a tiny fee - a dime or so - DIRECTLY to the artist, writer, and publisher. You get your music, the right people get paid, and the record companies get DICK. :thu: Huh? Huh? Am I a genius or what? :D "I had to have something, and it wasn't there. I couldn't go down the street and buy it, so I built it." Les Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcohol Posted June 27, 2003 Share Posted June 27, 2003 Jode, I think that's a great idea. some kind of monitoring system might be possible and the fee would be included in your ISP payments. "The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who in a period of moral crisis maintain their neutrality." [Dante Alighieri] (1265-1321) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Flier Posted June 27, 2003 Share Posted June 27, 2003 Actually Jode, I've been advocating such a thing all along. It could have been done with Napster. And the labels are scared shitless about that of course... notice it's always the RIAA suing people, NOT ASCAP or BMI, even though technically songwriters are losing mechanical royalties due to downloading too. Artists do not have to give permission for specific use of a song unless it's to be parodied, or used in an ad. Anybody is allowed to play your song in concert or on the radio so long as they pay the mechanical royalties. That's how downloads ought to work too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botch. Posted June 27, 2003 Share Posted June 27, 2003 Still not a word of it in 2 of the 3 major newspapers here in Utah (I refuse to buy the Mormon-based [i]Deseret News,[/i] (although the Salt Lake Tribune is now owned by "the church" now too) but I've sent letters to the editor to both of the ones I read, we'll see if they mention the, um, "irony".... :rolleyes: Botch "Eccentric language often is symptomatic of peculiar thinking" - George Will www.puddlestone.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jode Posted June 27, 2003 Author Share Posted June 27, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Lee Flier: [b]And the labels are scared shitless about that of course... notice it's always the RIAA suing people, NOT ASCAP or BMI, even though technically songwriters are losing mechanical royalties due to downloading too.[/b][/quote]That is a HELL of a good point. "Anytime you sign a record contract, you're gonna get fucked in the ass. It just depends whether they use Vaseline or gravel." Norwood Fisher of Fishbone "I had to have something, and it wasn't there. I couldn't go down the street and buy it, so I built it." Les Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GZsound Posted June 27, 2003 Share Posted June 27, 2003 What happened to the idea of adding a user fee or media copy tax or whatever to the cost of media? If there was an honest way to distribute the funds to the artists, a twenty five cents per blank CD surcharge would solve the issue of no funds being paid for the music in about a minute. I'm sure most folks who steal this music put it on some form of media and probably use CD's. Anything wrong with doing this? Mark G. "A man may fail many times, but he isn't a failure until he begins to blame others" -- John Burroughs "I consider ethics, as well as religion, as supplements to law in the government of man." -- Thomas Jefferson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super 8 Posted June 27, 2003 Share Posted June 27, 2003 MP3's with an imbeded message to maybe Paypal the artist with a suggested donation of a buck-per-song. Then perhaps offer a 'full version upgrade' where you can download the whole CD with full quality for like $5.00 via Paypal. Make it value-added. Super 8 Hear my stuff here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantasticsound Posted June 27, 2003 Share Posted June 27, 2003 Mr. Wow.. you're off your rocker. It doesn't matter which side of the political fence you sit on, Orrin Hatch's ideas on this subject are incredibly stupid, short sighted, and potentially dangerous to millions of innocent computer users. He'd be taken to task for his statements and lack of a backbone in owning up to the misdeeds of his organization no matter what political party he represents. :rolleyes: My only comments on the ideas regarding cyber payments are; [list] [*]Record companies, for all our loathing of their business practices, et. al., are still the money men that bankroll most commercially available music. Regardless of how a system gets implemented, until most recording artists find other sources of speculative capitol, the record companies will [i]still[/i] have a legal right to their piece of the pie. Now if only we can get it through their heads that the piece they get is about to shrink! ;) Of course, so will their costs... if they're intelligent. [*] How do you ensure an artist gets paid? There are plenty of internet users who don't have paypal or other online means of paying, but have access to downloads. How do you track these people? Do they miss out on downloads because they refuse or cannot get internet access to their money? Must the record companies continue to market whole CD's just for these people? [*]What about ripped CD's being put out, as they are now? Will they be able to be tracked, or do we end up with the exact scenario we face today? [/list] It's easiest to find me on Facebook. Neil Bergman Soundclick fntstcsnd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotown Posted June 27, 2003 Share Posted June 27, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Super 8: [b]MP3's with an imbeded message to maybe Paypal the artist with a suggested donation of a buck-per-song.[/b][/quote]The only problem is that only about one in a thousand people would actually make that donation. If people can take something without having pay for it; the vast majority will. I do fund raising events all of the time, and one thing that I have learned over the years is that a guy who would toss every one of the solicitations he recieves in the mail from a particular charity into the trash, will at a live event make a donation. It is the reason that telethons raise 90% of the budgets for the charities they represent. When people are alone in their homes, or otherwise not being watched, the will rarely adhere to some kind of honor system. Imagine having a store in the mall that was completley run on the honor system. No employee's or security. Just take what you want, and make a donation on the way out. It would never work in a million years. People just are not generally that honest. Whether you like it or not, the record industry makes billions of dollars, and they will not allow people to keep stealing their products. If I had to bet on how many congressman those billions could buy off, versus how many congressmen disgruntled file sharers could persuade, my money will be on the money. And it will serve us right. Jotown:) "It's all good: Except when it's Great" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super 8 Posted June 27, 2003 Share Posted June 27, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by fantasticsound: [b]How do you ensure an artist gets paid? There are plenty of internet users who don't have paypal or other online means of paying, but have access to downloads. [/b][/quote]It's voluntary for starts, and primarily directed toward independent artists. The idea is to make paying quick and simple. Set up a 900 number for those without Paypal. Offer traditional means of payment as well. Basically the idea is to keep it fast and simple to do. It's voluntary, and the payment is more of a donation. But if you can donate 'X' amount, you get the whole CD, or something cool. It also takes into account that people are going to download and NOT pay, but making SOMETHING back is better than making NOTHING. If you start policing and getting nasty with people, they'll take an adversarial approach and look for ways to avoid paying. It's just a sketchy idea I had, but it seems like it could be helpful to at least some. Super 8 Hear my stuff here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jode Posted June 27, 2003 Author Share Posted June 27, 2003 The day I have to rely on "donations" to get paid for ANYTHING is the day I hang it up and go on welfare. Rule number one I learned from my musical swami: Music, like soap, is a product. The manufacturer of any product deserves to get paid for the use of his product. Now, I'm definitely all for keeping money out of the hands of the industry Gestapo, but paying artists on a voluntary basis? UHN-uh. "I had to have something, and it wasn't there. I couldn't go down the street and buy it, so I built it." Les Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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