VeloDoug Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 Hello all. I could use a little help. I just played a Marshall Speaker cabinet that I will very likely purchase, but I want to make sure I'm paying a fair price. I'm new to vintage gear and want to be careful. I have posted some pictures here: Vintage Marshall 4x12 As you can see, it is pretty beat up. Guitar Center doesn't know the exact year, but that it is from the '70s. From what I can tell in my Vintage Guitar guide, the value varies based on the exact year. I hear that you can tell the year from the serial number on the speakers, but my Google search only turned up this book to buy in order to determine the date. Here is what I know about the cabinet:Make: MarshallModel: 1960 LeadSerial #: 4396 (I think) Here is what I know about the speakers:Make: CelestionModel: G12MSerial #: KL24 T1221 Does any one have this book "Hal Leonard The History of Marshall" or know of an online resource to help date this speaker cabinet? Thanks again!! Doug MUSCLE:91 Mesa Mk4(rack mounted)|Mesa F30|Mesa Nomad45|'78 Marshall 4x12 HEART:07 Gibson LP Std 50s Neck|86 Jackson Soloist|92 PRS Custom 24|01 PRS Singlecut|Taylor 814ce|MIM Strat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Ellwood Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 YES from page 137... it is a 15ohm speaker.. May 6th. 1966 This speaker was reintroduced in the 80's as a GREENBACK http://www.thestringnetwork.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeloDoug Posted June 21, 2007 Author Share Posted June 21, 2007 Are you sure? How did you verify? You think this is from the '60s, not the '70s? Tell me more! :-) I just found this page: http://www.amp-restoration.com/cabdata/cabdata.html The best I could tell from here, since I could not make an exact match of the 2nd 1/2 of the serial number on the speakers, was that it was late '70s... but I'm dealing with incomplete data on that list. MUSCLE:91 Mesa Mk4(rack mounted)|Mesa F30|Mesa Nomad45|'78 Marshall 4x12 HEART:07 Gibson LP Std 50s Neck|86 Jackson Soloist|92 PRS Custom 24|01 PRS Singlecut|Taylor 814ce|MIM Strat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Ellwood Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 That's what it says in that book and thats what it says on the list. I could scan the page tomorrow if you want. I'm only talking about the speakers, the cabinet I would have to see if I can find that. http://www.thestringnetwork.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeloDoug Posted June 21, 2007 Author Share Posted June 21, 2007 Wow... I'd love the scan if you want to email me. Thanks!! MUSCLE:91 Mesa Mk4(rack mounted)|Mesa F30|Mesa Nomad45|'78 Marshall 4x12 HEART:07 Gibson LP Std 50s Neck|86 Jackson Soloist|92 PRS Custom 24|01 PRS Singlecut|Taylor 814ce|MIM Strat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Ellwood Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 Ok checking more... Celesion dating says November 1966... so two separate references mark it as 1966 http://www.thestringnetwork.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Ellwood Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 Yep I can scan it and just PM it too you I think..either that or I will email it. This is a great book! for Marshall owners... give me your email address: http://www.thestringnetwork.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fumblyfingers Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 One of the speakers seems different. Am I seeing correctly? Is that price $1599.....am I seeing correctly? Yowza!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Ellwood Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 It's the same Lister, it's just got the gold plastic cap off of it. http://www.thestringnetwork.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeloDoug Posted June 21, 2007 Author Share Posted June 21, 2007 Yep I can scan it and just PM it too you I think..either that or I will email it. This is a great book! for Marshall owners... give me your email address: Ellwood: how do you post files to the forum? I took that chart on this page and put it in Excel for easy filtering and sorting. I'd love to share that too. MUSCLE:91 Mesa Mk4(rack mounted)|Mesa F30|Mesa Nomad45|'78 Marshall 4x12 HEART:07 Gibson LP Std 50s Neck|86 Jackson Soloist|92 PRS Custom 24|01 PRS Singlecut|Taylor 814ce|MIM Strat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeloDoug Posted June 21, 2007 Author Share Posted June 21, 2007 I also found this page for links to resource to date other types of equipment too: vintage guitar dating - amp page MUSCLE:91 Mesa Mk4(rack mounted)|Mesa F30|Mesa Nomad45|'78 Marshall 4x12 HEART:07 Gibson LP Std 50s Neck|86 Jackson Soloist|92 PRS Custom 24|01 PRS Singlecut|Taylor 814ce|MIM Strat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeloDoug Posted June 21, 2007 Author Share Posted June 21, 2007 One of the speakers seems different. Am I seeing correctly? I think the end cover just fell off. The serial number printed on the side of the speaker frame is identical to the other 3. MUSCLE:91 Mesa Mk4(rack mounted)|Mesa F30|Mesa Nomad45|'78 Marshall 4x12 HEART:07 Gibson LP Std 50s Neck|86 Jackson Soloist|92 PRS Custom 24|01 PRS Singlecut|Taylor 814ce|MIM Strat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeloDoug Posted June 21, 2007 Author Share Posted June 21, 2007 Are you sure? How did you verify? You think this is from the '60s, not the '70s? Tell me more! :-) I just found this page: http://www.amp-restoration.com/cabdata/cabdata.html The best I could tell from here, since I could not make an exact match of the 2nd 1/2 of the serial number on the speakers, was that it was late '70s... but I'm dealing with incomplete data on that list. I converted this table to Excel and then uploaded to Google Spreadsheets if you want to copy and paste it to Excel. MUSCLE:91 Mesa Mk4(rack mounted)|Mesa F30|Mesa Nomad45|'78 Marshall 4x12 HEART:07 Gibson LP Std 50s Neck|86 Jackson Soloist|92 PRS Custom 24|01 PRS Singlecut|Taylor 814ce|MIM Strat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Patrick Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 That cab is from the late 70s. The small check grille cloth is the giveaway. A 60s cab would have a basketweave grille. Those blackback Celestions also point to a 70s cab. A 60s cab would have greenbacks. They are basically the same speaker, Celestion just used a different color ring for some reason. Plus, the date code (KL24) dates the speakers to 1977: K = 1977L = November24 = day of the month A 60's Celestion would have the date code switched around with the number first and teh letters second. $1,599 is too much for a late 70s cab. I sold one exactly like that, in better condition, for $700 a year or so ago. Buy Tangy's latest CD, "Sorta Like Very Ultra" The Official Tangy Website Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swamp Angel Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 "Help me date a Marshall 1960 Lead speaker cabinet." Well, first you have to ask it out. Don't be shy! It may be just as eager to be asked as you are to ask. When the day arrives, do be polite, but don't go overboard; it's too early for flowers or anything like that. You don't want to freak it out! Do hold the door for it, or pull out its chair at dinner, vintage speaker cabs love the little thoughtful gestures... Sorry. I obviously have nothing constructive to add to this discussion.... "You can't be the best. There is no 'best.' You can only be a good one." - Muddy Waters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Patrick Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 Candy is dandy but liquor is quicker... Buy Tangy's latest CD, "Sorta Like Very Ultra" The Official Tangy Website Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picker Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 Help me date a Marshall 1960 Lead speaker cabinet Just walk up to the cabinet and say "hey baby, you got it goin' on. How about you and me make some crunchy sounds together?". Hey, even if she slaps you, at least you gave it your best shot... Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Ellwood Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 That cab is from the late 70s. The small check grille cloth is the giveaway. A 60s cab would have a basketweave grille. Those blackback Celestions also point to a 70s cab. A 60s cab would have greenbacks. They are basically the same speaker, Celestion just used a different color ring for some reason. Plus, the date code (KL24) dates the speakers to 1977: K = 1977 L = November 24 = day of the month A 60's Celestion would have the date code switched around with the number first and teh letters second. $1,599 is too much for a late 70s cab. I sold one exactly like that, in better condition, for $700 a year or so ago. How do you know if you are looking at type I or type 2? I agree on the grill cloth but what about the two different types on the speakers themselves? http://www.thestringnetwork.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Patrick Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 That cab is from the late 70s. The small check grille cloth is the giveaway. A 60s cab would have a basketweave grille. Those blackback Celestions also point to a 70s cab. A 60s cab would have greenbacks. They are basically the same speaker, Celestion just used a different color ring for some reason. Plus, the date code (KL24) dates the speakers to 1977: K = 1977 L = November 24 = day of the month A 60's Celestion would have the date code switched around with the number first and teh letters second. $1,599 is too much for a late 70s cab. I sold one exactly like that, in better condition, for $700 a year or so ago. How do you know if you are looking at type I or type 2? I agree on the grill cloth but what about the two different types on the speakers themselves? A couple things you can look at beside the date code. First is the black back, which points to late-70s. When the G12M was first issued, it had a green ring (hence the term "greenback"). They've also been issued with creme rings (yep, "cream backs") I think those were mid-70s but don't quote me on that as my memory is spotty. Second is the label. A '66 speaker would have just said "Celestion," these speakers are commonly known as "pre-Rola." As you can see in the pics of this cab, the labels clearly say "Rola Celestion." Buy Tangy's latest CD, "Sorta Like Very Ultra" The Official Tangy Website Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Ellwood Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 OK so very good info! I've got that book but the info is all over the map! So the "T" designations don't mean much I guess? That "T" series must just mean when the speaker was first put into production in Marshall cabs? http://www.thestringnetwork.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Patrick Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 The T number is just a model designation. "T1221" is a G12M speaker rated at 15 ohms. Buy Tangy's latest CD, "Sorta Like Very Ultra" The Official Tangy Website Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billster Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 Help me date a Marshall 1960 Lead speaker cabinet Just walk up to the cabinet and say "hey baby, you got it goin' on. How about you and me make some crunchy sounds together?". Hey, even if she slaps you, at least you gave it your best shot... I suggest saying "Hey, nice cones" Buy my CD on CD Baby! Bill Hartzell - the website MySpace?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 I was going to say something snyde, but it looks like that territory is well covered! A bunch of loud, obnoxious music I USED to make with friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantasticsound Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 I was going to say something snyde, but it looks like that territory is well covered! Ditto. (Although I will suggest you ask her father first, just to be a gentleman about it. ) It's easiest to find me on Facebook. Neil Bergman Soundclick fntstcsnd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Ellwood Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 I was going to say something snyde, but it looks like that territory is well covered! Ditto. (Although I will suggest you ask her father first, just to be a gentleman about it. ) "Ahhhh yes son, was there something you wanted to speak to me about?" http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b48/ellwood1/namm_jimmarshall.jpg http://www.thestringnetwork.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdrs Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 Help me date a Marshall 1960 Lead speaker cabinet Just walk up to the cabinet and say "hey baby, you got it goin' on. How about you and me make some crunchy sounds together?". Hey, even if she slaps you, at least you gave it your best shot... I suggest saying "Hey, nice cones" Or, you could try "Talk about STACKED...." :grin: Sorry brother!! BTW.....I'm sure Doug will post later, but it looks like the deals off. He'll 'splain..... Don "There once was a note, Pure and Easy. Playing so free, like a breath rippling by." http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=574296 http://www.myspace.com/imdrs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeloDoug Posted June 22, 2007 Author Share Posted June 22, 2007 it looks like the deals off. He'll 'splain..... The scoop is... As awesome as this cabinet sounded, it is priced too high for its age and condition. I wrote Marshall too and they were very quick to reply. They confirmed that the speakers were manufactured late in 1977 so the speaker cabinet is probably a '78. Upon further inspection, the bottom right speaker was indeed repaired (explaining its missing color ring on that speaker. So, I've decided to put this specific cabinet on hold and keep trying out other cabinets. In fact, in the SF Bay Area's craigslist, there are 3 similar cabinets for sale that I'll be looking at soon! If nothing else has the same 'magic', I'll consider this one again, but it would be hasty to jump on this one. So, I also learned a few things along the way that I wanted to share with the group. De-bunking the codes: Go here: Dr. Decibels Secrets and select Chassis Date Codes from the 'secrets' dropdown. This explains all the codes on Celestion speaker chassis. Speaker Handles: In the early '70s they were metal. Later in the '70s they were plastic. The switch to plastic may have been in 1972. Grill Cloth and Speaker color rings: As Michael Patrick stated: That cab is from the late 70s. The small check grille cloth is the giveaway. A 60s cab would have a basketweave grille. Those blackback Celestions also point to a 70s cab. A 60s cab would have greenbacks. They are basically the same speaker, Celestion just used a different color ring for some reason. Many thanks! Marshall Logo unconfirmed item - It would seem that the 11" logos started later in the '70s... maybe as early as '72, but possibly in '76. Earlier in the '70s they were 6" and 9". Thanks again everyone!! I'm really excited to finally find a speaker cabinet that does my amp justice. MUSCLE:91 Mesa Mk4(rack mounted)|Mesa F30|Mesa Nomad45|'78 Marshall 4x12 HEART:07 Gibson LP Std 50s Neck|86 Jackson Soloist|92 PRS Custom 24|01 PRS Singlecut|Taylor 814ce|MIM Strat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Patrick Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 Good luck in your search.... Buy Tangy's latest CD, "Sorta Like Very Ultra" The Official Tangy Website Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeloDoug Posted June 27, 2007 Author Share Posted June 27, 2007 Hey... I found another '79 and am playing it tomorrow. On the phone, the guy selling it said something unsettling to me. Has anyone heard that Greenbacks (Celestion G-12-M 25w) heat up and start sounding crappy after 20 minutes of playing? Let me know your thoughts. -- Doug MUSCLE:91 Mesa Mk4(rack mounted)|Mesa F30|Mesa Nomad45|'78 Marshall 4x12 HEART:07 Gibson LP Std 50s Neck|86 Jackson Soloist|92 PRS Custom 24|01 PRS Singlecut|Taylor 814ce|MIM Strat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Ellwood Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 Hey... I found another '79 and am playing it tomorrow. On the phone, the guy selling it said something unsettling to me. Has anyone heard that Greenbacks (Celestion G-12-M 25w) heat up and start sounding crappy after 20 minutes of playing? Let me know your thoughts. -- Doug THE HELL THEY DO!! Oh no they don't!! they sound great all the time!!! http://www.thestringnetwork.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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