Ross Brown Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 Sorry for the strange title for this post, I couldn't think of a good one. Anyway, I am taking some bass lessons with the goals of 1) interacting with another bass player, that is better than me, 2) getting/stealing some good ideas, 3) cleaning up the crappy basslines I use for the set list we play. So far we make each song on the bands set list a lesson for the week. Cool. I notice, however, that he tends to play way more notes than I would, in general. It sounds good, but I just am not sure that some songs need so much bass. Is this just a personal style thing or should I worry that my basslines are not busy enough "When I take a stroll down Jackass Lane it is usually to see someone that is already there" Mrs. Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 If they work, sound good, and (most importantly) compliment the song then I don't believe that it's a problem. Often there are multiple basslines that work for any particular song. Or perhaps he has "notice me" syndrome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 Are you playing along to recordings or is it just the two of you dueting? If the latter, there is a great temptation to overplay to cover the 'missing' bits. When you add this back into the band situation, it may sound crowded, and a lot of what you play might be lost or clash. If you are just after lessons, that is fine, but I'd be wary of coming up with fantastically complicated basslines when the rest of the band aren't there. I'd continue what you are doing, but bear in mind it might not work, especially if you don't have a good drummer. But at least you would have some pretty fancy ideas for solos, and a few of the ideas might work well. Feel the groove internally within your own creativity. - fingertalkin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky McDougall Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 These are my thoughts, everyone may disagree with me. I am basically a blues player. I've been playing for many years and If I can look back and see what has changed in my styling over the years it is this, I have learned to play fewer notes but place them in the right place with as much "feeling" as I can. Most of the blues players I have admired over the years, actually play the melody. If there were no other instruments, you could probably recogonize the song. Now I know this is not true to other music styles, but maybe it should be. As many have said, it's not the notes you play, it's the notes you don't play that is important.Rocky "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb, voting on what to eat for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb, contesting the vote." Benjamin Franklin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil W Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 Are they all notes or are some of them mutes ghost notes? Playing less is cool, sometimes playing more can be cool, Jamerson was fairly busy. There're room for all styles, play what you hear and don't worry. http://philwbass.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric VB Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 I am basically a blues player. Then you can imagine that particular hell called "open jam night" I visited last weekend. For one song they had like 6 guitarists, keys, bass and drums all just comping a 12BB. Yes, all rhythm and no melody. Well, I think eventually someone (guitarist) got the nerve to take a solo, but it was many minutes of just droning DUMP daDUMP daDUMP etc. Not even a riff! And just to keep things real simple, the bassist (not me) only played roots. It's different if you're backing SRV or BB King. There's some exciting melody to support, either vocals or guitar. This was just DUMP daDUMP. Not even a change in rhythm, like Zep's "You Shook Me", where the end of every DUMP daDUMP ends with a nice DAHHH daDUMP to break up the monotony. In that song, in that moment, in all of its DUMP daDUMP glory, it was screaming for help. Not even the predictable chord changes were helping break up the unending sameness. Just a little walking pattern. Just ... just a little. Give me just a little 1-3-5. Or even some 1-5s. Just a little. Gotta have a little. Just give me a little something in that bass line to keep me from losing my mind. You can even keep the DUMP daDUMP rhythm if you just give me a little movement. A little motion. Just a little something exciting to keep me from falling into some sort of hypnotic stupor. Maybe ... maybe an occasional triplet. It can even be on the root. Please, just a little. I just need a little dadadaDUMP every now and then. That's all. Just a little. I'm ... I'm losing it. I'm fading. Just a little. Like everyone's said, busy depends on the context, and in this context it wouldn't have hurt at all to be a little busier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric VB Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 If they work, sound good, and (most importantly) compliment the song then I don't believe that it's a problem. Often there are multiple basslines that work for any particular song. This really says it all. But of course I have to continue on in my own special ... um ... idiom! Tim makes a good point about the setting. If you're in a power trio trying to cover a song that contains more than three parts, you might want to come up with an arrangement that at least approaches the fullness of the original. That may require a busier bass line. Led Zeppelin had this problem just trying to play their own songs live, because Page would often overdub several guitar parts in the studio. To play live, he'd make an arrangement for one guitar of the different guitar parts, often simply switching from one to another throughout the song. It would have sounded very weak compared to the studio recording except Jones often arranged his bass parts to pick up the slack. Oh, and of course anything sounds full and powerful when John Bonham plays drums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Brown Posted May 10, 2007 Author Share Posted May 10, 2007 Don't get me wrong. Some of the songs I play, there is plenty of bassline. Just others that are simple, I keep simple. He adds much more. I am enjoying working with him. This just sort of turned on the "radar" for me... I guess this is what I was looking for anyway when I decided to take some lessons. "When I take a stroll down Jackass Lane it is usually to see someone that is already there" Mrs. Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 Yin to my Yang! I think mine are too busy, you think the reverse - that should balance out in the cosmic bass slop. Play for the song and be yourself. Don't fake the funk or your nose will grow. Do you play many ghost notes? Alex Barefaced Ltd - ultra lightweight, high ouput, toneful bass cabs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Brown Posted May 10, 2007 Author Share Posted May 10, 2007 No, I don't play a lot of ghost notes. Why..? "When I take a stroll down Jackass Lane it is usually to see someone that is already there" Mrs. Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 Try working some into your basslines. Think about how drums and percussion would interact with your bass playing and then play their parts as ghost notes around your actual bassline. How much variation do you build into your note lengths? Alex Barefaced Ltd - ultra lightweight, high ouput, toneful bass cabs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Brown Posted May 10, 2007 Author Share Posted May 10, 2007 Lots of variation in note length and timing/placement. "When I take a stroll down Jackass Lane it is usually to see someone that is already there" Mrs. Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 Sounds like you're working that aspect well then. Usually my favourite basslines are my least busy ones! Alex Barefaced Ltd - ultra lightweight, high ouput, toneful bass cabs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZZ Thorn Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 To me it's all about if it works or not. Busy-ness isn't good or bad - if you feel like getting busy, get busy. If you don't, don't - just play what you feel and what you think the song needs. I recall a guitarist friend of mine, who knows his Jaco, saying that Jaco was just too busy for a bassist: that he's too good to be playing the bass and should have switched instruments, LOL. He was kidding, but his point was Jaco was too busy. I disagree. It's only 'too busy' if it's lost its bounce or the groove. It sounds like you like what this other bass player is doing - so go ahead and copy and learn from him. That's a good thing. Eventually you'll make what he's doing your own - maybe you'll only be 75% as busy as him because you think his 100% busy is too much busy and that's not how RB wants to get down. http://www.myspace.com/themoustachioed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Brown Posted May 10, 2007 Author Share Posted May 10, 2007 It sounds like you like what this other bass player is doing - so go ahead and copy and learn from him. That's a good thing. Eventually you'll make what he's doing your own - maybe you'll only be 75% as busy as him because you think his 100% busy is too much busy and that's not how RB wants to get down. "When I take a stroll down Jackass Lane it is usually to see someone that is already there" Mrs. Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Capasso Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 I would look at what he's playing. Sometimes, it'll just be busy. Sometimes there will be some movement or rhythm that adds something. Sometimes, it'll just be way cool. Listen carefully, and take what suits you - and your band. As a player who "likes to play notes" (quoth his Sweetness), I'd answer your question "are my basslines busy enough" with "probably not - play more!". But I wouldn't always be right... Listen to some of the players that you respect. What are they doing? I am considering writing a list of my influences (songs and players), and many are busy by nature. It's just what hit me. Tom www.stoneflyrocks.com Acoustic Color Be practical as well as generous in your ideals. Keep your eyes on the stars and keep your feet on the ground. - Theodore Roosevelt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy c Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 Is there room left for anyone else to play? If the answer is yes, then you aren't too busy. Free download of my cd!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Brown Posted May 11, 2007 Author Share Posted May 11, 2007 But am I busy enough? At yesterdays lesson I was paying more attention to what my teacher was doing. I definately will play less than him but will also take some of his tricks/ideas with me. I explained to him that that was what I was looking for, Ideas, etc. Interestingly, he is in two bands one classic rock and one "funk" band. The demo he played of the funk band was very good and bass intense. This might be some of the difference. (I asked him to play it, he wasn't showing off). I need more practice... "When I take a stroll down Jackass Lane it is usually to see someone that is already there" Mrs. Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABGBrian Posted May 11, 2007 Share Posted May 11, 2007 Victor Wooten makes a really good point about this in his workshop video on BP.TV. I suggest you check it out if you have the time. Basically, from what I took from his example was this "If the band asks you to play more, then that means they are into the groove you're laying down and want to hear you step out more - they're satisfied... If the band asks you to play less then they've already become sick of you and you need to regress back to basic groove." Basically the purport I think is is that there is no harm in playing as little as you possibly can. If you can't make one note per measure groove then you certainly can't make 16 notes per measure groove. Start from the basics and only add on when needed or asked. Official Website BandcampFacebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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