Kramer Ferrington III. Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 There's a strong feeling out there that metal is more gig worthy than plastic. FX pedals in plastic casings are looked on with a sor of suspicion by a lot of people out there. On the other hand, lots of durable things are made of various types of platics. Hard hats and riot shields to name a few. Do any of you have real horror stories about plastic? ie "I stepped on the pedal and it cracked!" or anything like that? I was wondering if plastic hasn't been dealt a bit of a bum hand. Band MySpace My snazzy t-shirt empire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b3_john Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 Hard hats are built to take one big impact. You throw them away afterwards and get a replacement. John GP sacred cow of the year: Jimmy Vaughan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Ferrington III. Posted March 21, 2007 Author Share Posted March 21, 2007 Hard hats are built to take one big impact. You throw them away afterwards and get a replacement. Sure, but that "one big impact" is probably going to be bigger than just some dude stomping on a pedal? Band MySpace My snazzy t-shirt empire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardtail Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 Hard hats are built to take one big impact. You throw them away afterwards and get a replacement. Sure, but that "one big impact" is probably going to be bigger than just some dude stomping on a pedal? Yes... but the dude is going to be stomping on his pedal night after night after night... sometimes with impunity if he's really into the tune. Don't underestimate the power of the human leg. Even an old man like me can still squat almost 300 lbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Ferrington III. Posted March 21, 2007 Author Share Posted March 21, 2007 Hard hats are built to take one big impact. You throw them away afterwards and get a replacement. Sure, but that "one big impact" is probably going to be bigger than just some dude stomping on a pedal? Yes... but the dude is going to be stomping on his pedal night after night after night... sometimes with impunity if he's really into the tune. Yeah, ok. And maybe he'll be wearing heavy shoes too! But seriously, do you know if anything has ever happened to a plastic pedal case? Band MySpace My snazzy t-shirt empire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardtail Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 Maybe. I'm telling you, I can crush plastic pedals with my legs after time. I wouldn't want one. Instead of arguing about it though, I could bring it up with my father-in-law at some point. He's a chemical engineer and runs a petrochemical business. Plastics are his thing. LOL! I'll get back to you on this at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Ferrington III. Posted March 21, 2007 Author Share Posted March 21, 2007 Maybe. I'm telling you, I can crush plastic pedals with my legs after time. What? Between your legs? You can crush a pedal? That's even better than tearing a phonebook in half! But seriously... I realize that steel is tougher than plastic, I'm just wondering if steel isn't just overkill. Band MySpace My snazzy t-shirt empire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardtail Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 Maybe. I'm telling you, I can crush plastic pedals with my legs after time. What? Between your legs? You can crush a pedal? That's even better than tearing a phonebook in half! Ok... with all due respect, now you're just acting like an imbeccile. You started this conversation. If you don't want to be serious about it anymore just let me know and I'll move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Ferrington III. Posted March 21, 2007 Author Share Posted March 21, 2007 No, see the bit I added. I'm asking simply because I've never really heard of a plastic pedal casing coming to a bad end. I too have a bit of a prejudice against, but I'm wondering if there's anything to it really. As I said, sure... steel is tougher. But does one really need steel? Band MySpace My snazzy t-shirt empire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A String Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 I think that Vince is just trying to lighten the mood. I'm sure he meant no offense. Craig Stringnetwork on Facebook String Network Forum My Music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardtail Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 No problem. I see your edit now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A String Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 Going through my pedals, I notice that every single one of them is metal. (With the exception of my Zoom 505 multi-effect unit, which is plastic. It never really got much stage time, so I can't really judge it's "toughness" with any degree of accuracy.) I'd be interested in hearing if anyone has any stories, about the plastic pedals, breaking. Craig Stringnetwork on Facebook String Network Forum My Music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Ellwood Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 Not the cases but the plastic switch peddle itself broken on our bass players rig, it WAS some kind of Zoom product. http://www.thestringnetwork.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A String Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 Not the cases but the plastic switch peddle itself broken on our bass players rig, it WAS some kind of Zoom product. Actually, now that you mention it, my Zoom pedal does jump up to "notches" when you step once on it. I have to step once on the right pedal (goes up two settings) and then once on the left pedal (goes down one setting), to get to an effect, above the one that I'm currently using. I always assumed it was dust and crud in the switch and figured that I'd clean it out some day, but i suppose the switch could be broken as well. Craig Stringnetwork on Facebook String Network Forum My Music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 Yeah, ok. And maybe he'll be wearing heavy shoes too! But seriously, do you know if anything has ever happened to a plastic pedal case? You've never seen the knee-high jackboots I wear onstage... It's not so much the case that mitigates - it's the plastic pedal mechanisms. An aluminum stomp button is more sure and absolute than a plastic pedal lever - you KNOW you hit it, and you KNOW how many times you hit it with the former. The latter, particularly as they wear down, can register a double stomp in a high-pressure situation and really screw you over during a performance. A bunch of loud, obnoxious music I USED to make with friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 I always assumed it was dust and crud in the switch and figured that I'd clean it out some day, but i suppose the switch could be broken as well. See, that's the other piece. When a metal switch goes, you know it's gone - it stops clicking under your foot. And it's inevitably an easy fix - not hard to replace those mechanisms. A plastic one? You really have no idea what's going on, just sometimes it registers, sometimes it registers twice or three times, sometimes it doesn't register at all. Could be the pedal itself, or a cooked IC, or any number of other problems. I swear, my next wah is going to be a Morley, just because I'd rather stomp on the switch and work it, then stomp when I'm done, than futz around with the built-in switch on a Dunlop and HOPE I hit it... A bunch of loud, obnoxious music I USED to make with friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy The Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 I'd say that case design is more than just the material. A cheap pedal will have cheap parts that wear out fast, and either a thin plastic case or a thin metal case, with no bracing, held together with dinky little screws. A good pedal is built to last. My old CryBaby Wah pedal - it weighs about five pounds, and you could probably use it to smash bricks. But my old Small Stone phaser pedal (sorry, electro-harmonix) has a thin, metal case that I could tear apart with my bare hands if I wanted. Anyway, the moving parts - switches, knobs, etc. - are more important than what the box is made of. Music is sound for its own sake. Gibson S1; Roland Cube60, Peavey Deuce, Marshall Lead 12; Cubase SX3, Yamaha X15, Proteus 2000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantasticsound Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 I believe that the case material being made of plastic is of no consequence, but the fact is the plastics used can still crack. You'd have to really want to bust any of the metal casings I have, and to my knowledge none of them are "powdered" metal, which can break. But for normal wear I think most modern plastic cases are just as durable and far lighter than metal cases. The problem isn't the material. It's the continuing perception that heavy means durable and plastic (especially light plastic) means cheap and fragile. I do agree that plastic cases are more likely to contain cheaper components, which only adds to the misconception about the plastic itself when those internal components fail. Also, when screws are used to secure the back plate to molded plastic threads, it's far easier to screw up those threads or accidentally break off the thread mount. That's where reasonably durable plastics show their weakness and are difficult, if not impossible, to fix. It's easiest to find me on Facebook. Neil Bergman Soundclick fntstcsnd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantasticsound Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 I think for most rock musicians the durability test is whether the prosecution could describe a pedal as the "blunt object" responsible for the victim's murder. It's easiest to find me on Facebook. Neil Bergman Soundclick fntstcsnd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picker Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 The one Behringer pedal I have owned had a plastic case, and it was flimsy as a dry leaf. I was afraid to step on it at all. On the other hand, in the 80's I had an Arion Analog Delay that was plastic, and tough as nails. I guess it depends on who's making them, and how. For myself, though, I want metal-cased pedals these days. Plastic stuff seems to be getting flimsier and flimsier as the years go by... Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluesape Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 I've used Zooms for years, and can't fault the strength of the plastic, and I'm 300 lbs. Never a DUH! moment! Well, almost never. OK, OK! Sometimes never! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xplorer Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 The grade of plastic used is the real question. Plastic properties are proportional to the cost of material like anything else. It's kinda like asking, "How sharp is a knife?". I would hope that the plastic is tested before use. It stands to reason that two comparable products with different grades of plastic would differ in price accordingly. I've never seen a plastic housing component on a stompbox crack. I have however, seen the plastic 'switch' beneath the housing breakup on a ZOOM pedal board. This was an uber cheap pedalboard though... What a horrible night to have a curse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revolead Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 I built a DIY switchbox (the one on the Fulltone site) using an all-plastic box that we sell at RadioShack (my current day job). So having a company discount certainly helps, but those little plastic boxes are quite strong. I don't anticipate them breaking under pressure, even if it's the human leg. As a former runner, I have a lot of leg strength and everything to me seems to be working just fine. Also, I have to ask. Why does the type of casing matter for "double stomps"? Wouldn't that be the problem of a lousy switch or something else? I don't see how a case would contribute to that at all. Anyone? Shut up and play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 Also, I have to ask. Why does the type of casing matter for "double stomps"? You missed the part at the beginning of my post where I said "it's not the case so much as the plastic innards (sic)" A bunch of loud, obnoxious music I USED to make with friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantasticsound Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 I built a DIY switchbox (the one on the Fulltone site) using an all-plastic box that we sell at RadioShack (my current day job). So having a company discount certainly helps, but those little plastic boxes are quite strong. I don't anticipate them breaking under pressure, even if it's the human leg. As a former runner, I have a lot of leg strength and everything to me seems to be working just fine... Good luck with that, Revo, but I've put my foot through one of those DIY Radio Shack boxes and have had others literally get crushed between heavy gear. In the former case, it was because the switch hole shattered under the pressure of my foot. They work for many projects, but unfortunately they're not as durable as I would need for any kind of footswitch. Ironically, I have a 20 year old footswitch from a dictation recorder that is mostly plastic. A friend worked for American Family Insurance (now AFLAC) in a warehouse that was flooded when the nearby river over-ran its banks. The dictation recorders were destroyed but the footswitches were just dirty. He was allowed to take 5 or 6 double switches which we promptly rewired as momentary switches for keyboards and effect bypass for rack effects. I still have mine and it still works and the plastic frame was never an issue. (It does have a metal base plate, but I think that was for grounding static charges. It's easiest to find me on Facebook. Neil Bergman Soundclick fntstcsnd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 A friend worked for American Family Insurance (now AFLAC) in a warehouse that was flooded when the nearby river over-ran its banks... Ya suppose that's where they got the idea to add the "And Casualty" to their name and start selling accident insurance? A bunch of loud, obnoxious music I USED to make with friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zuben Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 Xplorer has it right. What plastic? There are as many if not more grades of plastics and composite plastics than metal. Some plastics, more so the composites, are 10 times tougher than steel. What grade of steel? Well, when we are talking about effects pedals, you are normally talking about "pot" or very cheap cast metal. It is actually not the greatest grade of metal there is. Once cracked or broken, it is throw away as not even a mig welder can weld it. I know this doesn't really answer your question but if the right grade of plastic is used to make a pedal, it will out last the common metal used pedals. (But $ is the deciding factor) Peace http://www.spotcheckbilly.com http://www.littlefeat.net http://www.bonnieraitt.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xplorer Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 Xplorer has it right. What plastic? There are as many if not more grades of plastics and composite plastics than metal. Some plastics, more so the composites, are 10 times tougher than steel. What grade of steel? Well, when we are talking about effects pedals, you are normally talking about "pot" or very cheap cast metal. It is actually not the greatest grade of metal there is. Once cracked or broken, it is throw away as not even a mig welder can weld it. I know this doesn't really answer your question but if the right grade of plastic is used to make a pedal, it will out last the common metal used pedals. (But $ is the deciding factor) Peace Bingo What a horrible night to have a curse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Ferrington III. Posted March 21, 2007 Author Share Posted March 21, 2007 Ok, thanks for all those ideas Band MySpace My snazzy t-shirt empire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantasticsound Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 That's certainly true, Zuben, but the reality is effect pedal manufacturers are not using a grade of plastic that in any way matches the durability of the steel boxes most pedals are built from. There's cast and there's cast... One being cheap to the point of breaking under little stress and the other being much stronger than the grades of plastic I've seen in effect pedals. This ain't kevlar we're talking about. All I can say is try throwing a typical Boss pedal at drywall. Now throw a Danelectro or Zoom pedal at the same wall. After you fish the Boss pedal out of the hole in the wall you can plug 'em all in and see which ones work. And before you plug in you can see which ones are intact. It's easiest to find me on Facebook. Neil Bergman Soundclick fntstcsnd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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