Terrible! Delp was a suicide.

[A String]

You know, there's worse things that can happen besides someone committing suicide.

It's harder to make your life work...than it is to give up and check out.

 

I have no sympathy for the person that commits suicide and abandons the living.

 

Take that for what it's worth.

 

Randy

 

Those are some fairly harsh words, especially considering you've read a few statements here from folks, who knew people that suffered from depression.

 

Depression is a chemical imbalance. Not unlike a person who doesn't produce enough insulin and becomes a diabetic.

 

The chemicals in your brain, control your moods. Certain chemicals make you happy, others make you mad etc.

 

When a person has depression, the chemical balance in their brains is not right. Therefore they suffer from depression. We are not talking about "I've just lost my job" depression or even "a loved one just died" depression. We are talking about a "Bottomless pit of despair" type of depression.

 

I'm sure you have been depressed. Imagine that, a million times worse. Imagine feeling so depressed, that you've lost the will to live. being so enveloped with despair, that life ceases to matter. Now imagine having to deal with this, for months at a time, year after year.

 

Severe, clinical depression is very real. Many people struggle with it everyday. The medical world is just starting to understand it, and treat it a little more effectively, than in the past (it wasn't that long ago, that treatments such as "shock treatment" and locking a person away in a "rubber room" were used. I'm talking with in the past 15 years.)

 

I have great sympathy for anyone who loses the battle and commits suicide, as they did not choose that fate. The disease chose it for them. When your brain tells you to do something so strongly, and convinces you that it's the right thing to do, is that the fault of the person with the disease or the fault of the disease?

 

[Strategery]

Not really from statements here, but from 50 years of life experiences.

 

From what I've seen, most suicides aren't a spontaneous decision, but rather a deep rooted problem.

 

Sorry, I simply don't subscribe to the Disease theory.

Each of us make our decisions and act upon them, whatever they are.

 

Just because individual responsibility is not popular at the moment, doesn't take away from its validity.

 

Some say...that the suicide victim THINKS they are doing a favor for their family by killing themselves and leaving money behind or taking problems away from their family.

That only carries a small amount of weight.

 

Sure, that may be their thought process at the time, but is it really the truth?

 

What about the family left behind?

What about their feelings?

 

If a potential suicidal person put as much effort into kicking their addiction or tackling whatever problem they have, as the amount they put into killing themselves...I dare say the rate might go down and lives would be saved.

 

Life....is a gift...not something to be taken lightly and then simply toss in the trash heap.

With LIFE....comes great responsibility, especially when there's others involved.

 

Just one person's opinion....that's all.

 

 

[A String]

Sorry, I simply don't subscribe to the Disease theory.

Each of us make our decisions and act upon them, whatever they are.

 

Don't subscribe?!? Time to pick up anything published in the last 15 years. Learn before you condemn.

 

 

If a potential suicidal person put as much effort into kicking their addiction or tackling whatever problem they have, as the amount they put into killing themselves...I dare say the rate might go down and lives would be saved.

 

You do realize that a lack of motivation is one of the factors of depression right? That sometimes "kicking their addiction" isn't an option?

 

You obviously do not understand depression, as the statements you are making are uneducated and stereotypical of the way folks used to think. Once again, I recommend doing some reading on the subject, before you make any further callous and hurtful statements.

[S. Yeti Bigfoot, Esq.]

The problem, Randy, is that you are still trying to apply the logic of a stable, mentally balanced, rational person to the act of someone who is not stable, rational and mentally balanced. You're always going to arrive at the same rational conclusion...but it simply doesn't apply here.

 

Would a person who is in his right mind and thinking clearly kill himself? Nope...no way. Survival instinct would take over. For a person to overcome the most basic of animal insticts and kill himself, it takes some powerful persuasion.

 

I'm as big a proponent of personal responsibility as anyone. I think that by and large people create their own situations in one way or another. However, there are times when that simply isn't the case. There are, in fact, times when people have no control whatsover over their own thoughts and actions.

 

Mental illness is very real...take my word for it. It is, in fact, a disease....and it CAN be treated with medications. The thing that drives people to suicide is a physical disease with mental manifestations.

 

This generally is separate and distinct from addiction. There is some debate as to whether addiction should truly be classified as disease, or if it should be classified as behavioral disorder. I'm not going to debate that one way or another. I think that people make the idiotic decision to use addictive substances in the first place..how much control they have after that is up in the air, I suppose.

 

There is no doubt that clinical depression is a physical disease with mental manifestations. It is generally not caused by anything the patient did and can, in fact, be hereditary.

[A String]

The problem, Randy, is that you are still trying to apply the logic of a stable, mentally balanced, rational person to the act of someone who is not stable, rational and mentally balanced. You're always going to arrive at the same rational conclusion...but it simply doesn't apply here.

 

Would a person who is in his right mind and thinking clearly kill himself? Nope...no way. Survival instinct would take over. For a person to overcome the most basic of animal insticts and kill himself, it takes some powerful persuasion.

 

I'm as big a proponent of personal responsibility as anyone. I think that by and large people create their own situations in one way or another. However, there are times when that simply isn't the case. There are, in fact, times when people have no control whatsover over their own thoughts and actions.

 

Mental illness is very real...take my word for it. It is, in fact, a disease....and it CAN be treated with medications. The thing that drives people to suicide is a physical disease with mental manifestations.

 

This generally is separate and distinct from addiction. There is some debate as to whether addiction should truly be classified as disease, or if it should be classified as behavioral disorder. I'm not going to debate that one way or another. I think that people make the idiotic decision to use addictive substances in the first place..how much control they have after that is up in the air, I suppose.

 

There is no doubt that clinical depression is a physical disease with mental manifestations. It is generally not caused by anything the patient did and can, in fact, be hereditary.

 

[Zuben]

Randy,

 

You have missed the point completely. We are not talking about someone with full faculties.

 

Let me try to simplify it. You come to a stop light, it is red, you stop.

 

A person whose's brain chemistry is messed up, sees a green light.

 

90% of them are not, in their mind, abandoning anyone. They think they are helping them or are trying to stop the pain the are going though. It is an illness that can be brought on by a multiude of reasons.

 

Do you have no sympathy for a person who has a cold and sneezes?

 

They do not understand and I can promise you they could care less about you having sympathy for them

 

My post was to help shed some light on it. Mental illness, no matter what brings it on is as real as cancer.

 

Peace

[A String]

Randy,

 

You have missed the point completely. We are not talking about someone with full faculties.

 

Let me try to simplify it. You come to a stop light, it is red, you stop.

 

A person whose's brain chemistry is messed up, sees a green light.

 

90% of them are not, in their mind, abandoning anyone. They think they are helping them or are trying to stop the pain the are going though. It is an illness that can be brought on by a multiude of reasons.

 

Do you have no sympathy for a person who has a cold and sneezes?

 

They do not understand and I can promise you they could care less about you having sympathy for them

 

My post was to help shed some light on it. Mental illness, no matter what brings it on is as real as cancer.

 

Peace

 

Very well put.

[Fumblyfingers]

Zuben said something which I very much believe and have thought about for years now.

 

There have been many studies done on genius and madness and there is a very, very thin line between the two.

 

 

 

I took a trip into the dark side of my mind once. I remember after some time, being suddenly very cognizant that I had to get out of there. I was feeling a pull into the depths of something very unpleasant. After I straightened up, I had all these thoughts about the very fine line between sanity and insanity and was conceptualizing about umbilical cords, how we always make sure we are connected in some way to something safe. Just like we were connected to our mother in the womb. Like the silver chord they talk about, connecting the spirit, there to pull spirit back if it gets too far from the body. I think that all through life we create imaginary "grappling irons", that we toss out on lines to anchor ourselves so as to not drift away.

 

 

I started to think that this fine line in the mind between sanity and insanity is a sort of grey area, a no mans land...a place that you can get into and still have a momentary choice which way you want to go, which direction you choose...sanity/insanity, good/evil, love/hatred etc

 

I believe some go in there and don't come back.

 

Being as the line is so fine it might not take much to put someone in a position of perhaps finding themself standing there, possibly facing that decision. Whether you have what it takes to not be affected by the newfound crisis, tragedy, depression that put you there etc etc is something you will find out at the time.

 

It is a very fine line, anyone could cross it.Some people will never be affected.

 

But saying that one has no sympathy for people who do get lost has a sort of arrogant stance to it. I used to think that way. But since that dark time when I found myself in a very bad place, I have changed my attitude about it.

 

There but for the grace of God, go I.

 

 

 

 

[S. Yeti Bigfoot, Esq.]

All it takes is for one circuit to stop functioning properly, and all of the data for that supercomputer is skewed.

 

Saying that one person's mental illness is their own doing is like saying that another's MS is their own doing. I truly doubt that anyone chooses to be mentally ill.

 

The vast majority of true mental illness is caused by chemical imbalances. There are several different hormones that the brain is constantly releasing as a result of external or internal stimulus. Each cause a certain psychological or physiological response to that stimulus. These are called neurotransmitters. They cause responses such as pleasure, anger, fear, sexual arousal, hunger, thirst, etc. and there are certain chemicals that are necessary to sustain normal thought patterns, logic, creativity, etc. Each is keyed to a certain type of synapse in a certain area of the brain and allows that particular center of the brain to take on a higher level of function when the brain is presented with the proper stimulus. If, for instance, fear is the appropriate response, the adrenalin will be released. It has the chemical "key" to the fear centers and can unlock those synapses, allowing them to fire, which causes the "fight or flight" response. That is a very simplified explanation, really...in actuality many are produced locally in presynaptic cells and the response is determined by the postsynaptic cell, and each controls a very specific brain function, such as norepinephrin controls levels of wakefulness, dopamine and acetylcholine control voluntary muscle movement and emotional arousal, seratonin controls memory, emotions and thermal regulation, etc....a particular response to stimulus may involve the release of several different chemicals in comination.

 

Malfunctions of the release of those chemicals can cause an incorrect or exaggerated response, or a failure to respond at all. It can also cause flawed logic and thought patterns. Malfunction can be caused by brain damage due to trauma, brain damage due to exposure to some substance (toxins, alcohol, drugs), growths and tumors, lesions on the brain, and it can be hereditary defects.

 

It's not something that you can choose or control. You can't choose to become insane and then, when convenient, become sane again.

 

The stigma that our society places on mental illness stems from medieval times. It is fear of the things we don't understand....it is really a normal response to stimulus. If you think about it, if we don't understand something, then we don't know if it can hurt us or not. Nature has wired us to err on the side of caution. If we don't understand someone's behavior, we avoid that person because we don't know if he's dangerous to us or not. We blame them because we don't want to think that it could happen to us...if they had control then we have control...it will never happen to me because I'm not going to do whatever he did to get that way.

 

In some cases there may be some basis in truth, such as brain damage and mental illness caused by drug or alcohol use. The point that we miss is that once the person has caused the damage, then they have very little or no control any more because they have altered the function of the brain cells. Yeah, it may be their fault that they got where they are, but now that they are there they may not be able to get out.

 

In other cases, there is no truth to it whatsoever. We tend to paint everything with the same broad brush. We just condemn and avoid that that we don't understand.

[spiral light]

You know, there's worse things that can happen besides someone committing suicide.

It's harder to make your life work...than it is to give up and check out.

 

I have no sympathy for the person that commits suicide and abandons the living.

 

Take that for what it's worth.

 

Randy

You can't just write it off like that. You don't really know what's going on inside the persons head, maybe they only choose to share so much with other people. I haven't read any of the other responces to this yet, but this type of attitude really pisses me off. Yes, there are places for the individual to turn to but those can only be successful if the person is willing to commit to a serious regimen of therapy personal development. Usually there is something that gets triggered (an event, a circumstance) that makes the person feel uneasy or some other mental condition. Sometimes they are not even aware of what that particular trigger(s) is(are). Some people are great at putting on facades (especially men) whilst underneath they are extremely fragile or sensitive (I don't mean sensitive in the new sensitive male sense).

In a stressful, fast paced world people need to realise that if they do encounter mental obstacles then they do need to get help before it gets out of control. I'm not making any judgement on Delp here, I'm sure he did what he could.

[Fumblyfingers]

Yeah too true Bigfoot....I suppose I should have mentioned those who have no choice in the matter...those with faulty wiring, chemical imbalance etc etc.

 

These were just my own thoughts I have on it.....I obviously have no qualification at all on the subject.

 

The mind is so powerful...and creative people use their imagination so much. Throw some drugs in the mix and perhaps a career that is stagnant or some other negative emotional trigger and that imagination could start to dwell on the darker side. I guess all I am saying is that it is a risky place to hang out.

 

My heart goes out to those here who have had a loved one or dear friend take their own life. I am very sorry about about that.

 

It is tough but talking about it is hopefully healthy. Yes, impossible to begin to try and understand, especially if you have zero experience with it, have not lived it.

[Dr. Ellwood]

Good comments Bigfoot! good insight and very accurate!

[realtrance]

Depression really is a tangible, chemical imbalance. It can be caused by a number of things, some manageable, some not. Sometimes it's the result of environment: excessive stress, few options, dark weather (Pacific Northwest, for instance -- and suicide rates are higher in Northern climes, simply due to less light during the year). Sometimes, it's simply the result of diet -- lack of B vitamins, lack of exercise leading to chemical imbalances. Sometimes, it's the side effect of drugs. Sometimes, it's physiological -- people who have had open-chest heart surgery often suffer a period of deep depression, subsequently, as a result of the trauma. Sometimes it's the result of chronic pain. Sometimes it's simply intrinsic to the person's biochemistry and a marginally treatable mental illness.

 

If you've ever been through a period of real depression, you'll know that it's an overwhelming feeling; an "oh my God, I can't believe how bad this feels!" feeling. If you go through a period of depression and have the luck (as I've had) to have it just be situational, you have the perspective to realize how not-right it feels, how specific it is, and you also have the perspective to shout to yourself while you're in it: "there's a way out, just wait." If it's more chronic -- a number of people I've known over the years have had this, one suicided, another attempted -- you lose that perspective, and it's just unending, unimaginable pain. Pain that nothing out there can compensate for. Pain that makes any thought of anything even the slightest bit satisfying, unimaginable. Imagine going through an entire day KNOWING that you are simply unable to enjoy any aspect of it, no matter how hard you try. That the weight in your soul is so heavy, you can't even see anything else. That it's so bad, even the happiness of others around you is experienced as nothing else but more pain.

 

If you are in that state, or get into that state, you feel like any efforts others might make to "pull you out of it" is not only a huge burden on them -- which it is -- but is useless. You start to see yourself as simply an opportunity for other people to waste their energy trying to accomplish something you know in your heart is impossible. Or, at least that's the way it seems to you.

 

Most of us are lucky, who've gone through real depression, to survive it long enough to get to the other side, and be able to look back on it and recognize such a state of mind as something that will change, one way or another. But some of us get stuck in it for so long, maybe a lifetime, that the profound hopelessness associated with it makes the idea of change or escape from it ludicrous to contemplate, and even more depressing to even think of. When you're that deep down in it, it's almost comforting to think more about the fact that that's just where you are, that it's okay, even, to be in such pain all the time. There's relief in wallowing in your depression, of a sort. And then, that dangerous sense of relief can evolve into the insane belief that death would be even more of a relief.

 

So, I present all this in response to Strategery's callousness regarding the pain. May he never learn it, himself, or in any of those around him he regards as loved ones, or even just friends.

 

 

Fortunately, -- fear not! -- I'm in a great mood, don't worry! But I know this stuff like the back of my hand, and am outraged when people dismiss it who haven't a clue.

 

[A String]

Some great posts guys.

 

The medical community has been making some fantastic leaps, in the treatment of depression. Hopefully, someday, these sorts of discussions, will be a thing of the past.

 

 

[Strategery]

OK....take a deep breath everyone.

 

I'm not comdemning anyone. It's a sad situation for sure, for all involved.

 

I'm just saying my sympathy goes for the living, not the deceased.

Sure, it's a sad thing they're dead, but what the Heck did Delp have to be sad about?

 

Was he hooked on drugs or had one too many skeletons in his closet that ate away at his conscience?

 

Are any of you saying that Delp was not sane, or are you saying that he had a weak moment.

 

I can appreciate your opinions, I really do...I simply have a different point of view.

 

Also, do not assume I have no experience or knowledge in this subject.

 

I'm no expert, but I'm also not without experience to include close family members.

However, a chat site is not the place to go into such matters on a Personal basis.

 

I will plead innocent to calousness. I'm just stating things the way I've seen them.

I'm also not saying all cases are the same either.

 

Randy

 

[A String]

I simply have a different point of view.

 

I think you are misunderstanding us. You can't have a "different point of view". The facts are the facts. There is no other way to look at it.

 

Telling someone with depression, to stop being depressed, is like telling a quadriplegic, to get his lazy ass out of the wheel chair and walk around like the rest of us.

[Dr. Ellwood]

I simply have a different point of view.

 

I think you are misunderstanding us. You can't have a "different point of view". The facts are the facts. There is no other way to look at it.

 

Telling someone with depression, to stop being depressed, is like telling a quadriplegic, to get his lazy ass out of the wheel chair and walk around like the rest of us.

 

LOL!!!!!!!Craig! you almost made me spray paint this puter with coffee...OMG!!! LOL!!!

[Strategery]

Sounds like a closed mind to me.

 

To simply state that the facts are the facts....would mean that nothing further can be learned on any subject being discussed.

 

Your statements above are naturally absurd, and my point of view was taken out of context.

 

Depression is a mental state....not physical. Little bit of difference there...don't you think? :grin:

 

I not only have a different point of view...I'm allowed to have one, just as we all are.

 

Once you close the door on opinion, you stop learning.

Depression, just as with any other learning process, is an on going learning process.

Once you proclaim it solved, you close the door on any new information that may arise.

 

Having said all that...I dare say that there may be an ocassion where suicide may be semi acceptible....ie...terminal illness.

 

Of course, our society has proclaimed that against the law and is another discussion for another time.

 

But if I were terminally ill beyond a shadow of a doubt, and was on my death bed and in severe agony...I dare say if offered a way out...I might would take it.

 

I watched my grandmother in the middle 70's die in agony from lung cancer because the doctor's hands were tied.

Hell, we don't even do our pets that badly.

 

My wife's mother went out in a similar fashion.

 

That's maybe the only one I'd consider.

 

Again....just an opinion and it would be the person with the illness decision...and no others.

 

 

[A String]

Depression is a mental state....not physical. Little bit of difference there...don't you think? :grin:

 

You're still not listening and that statement shows it.

 

Depression is a physical state. Depression is caused by a physical, chemical imbalance. It is exactly the same as diabetes, heart disease or any other physical illness. Depression just happens to manifest itself, emotionally.

 

You say that you are entitled to you opinion, but if your opinion states that it's not physical, then you are flat out wrong.

 

I suppose you have the right to be wrong, but once again, it's a ridiculous statement, that shows you know nothing about what you are saying. Just as I mentioned before, I could walk around, saying that I think all quadriplegics are lazy, and all they need to do is get their butts out of their chairs, but that doesn't mean that my opinion is valid. More the rantings of a guy who has no knowledge of the thing I'm offering opinions on.

 

The thing that strikes me the most about your statements, is the heartlessness in making them. How many times do you have to read other posts here, from folks who have suffered or are suffering, before you realize that your opinions are ill placed.

[Strategery]

WOW...I never realized it was so cut and dried.

 

What the heck was I thinking? :grin:

 

Hey, science is without heart. Otherwise, how would scientists learn anything?

 

Working on test animals is without heart for the animals.

 

Some statements can have validity and need to be stated even though they're hard to swallow once in a while.

That doesn't mean you have no empathy for those affected.

 

I'm not here for an argument and your analogy is not my point nor the end all factor on this subject.

 

This is not personal for me...although, I have had personal experience in this area.

No, I'm not a scientist...but NO ONE can declare all knowledge has been learned on any subject.

Too many theories have been proven wrong over the centuries.

 

I choose not to set myself up and new knowledge comes along that disproves the status quo.

 

[Zuben]

"Depression is a mental state....not physical. Little bit of difference there...don't you think?:"

 

NO. Chemical imbalance IS physical state and not a "mental State".

 

Talk to ANY doctor or medical professional.

 

Closed mind? No, just an educated and experienced one. As I said before, a chemical imbalance in the brain is no difference as a "real" illness as cancer.

 

Peace

 

 

[Dr. Ellwood]

Its often said that depression results from a chemical imbalance, but that figure of speech doesnt capture how complex the disease is. Depression has many causes, including genetic vulnerability and other influences such as life events, illnesses, and medications.

 

Genes: Every part of your body, including your brain, is controlled by genes. Genes make proteins that are involved in biological processes. Throughout life, different genes turn on and off, so that in the best case they make the right proteins at the right time. But if the genes get it wrong, they can alter your biology in a way that results in your mood becoming unstable. In a vulnerable person, any stress (a fight with your spouse, a missed deadline at work, or a medical illness, for example) can then push this system off balance.

 

To be sure, chemicals are involved in this process, but it is not a simple matter of one chemical being too low and another too high. Rather, many chemicals are involved, working both inside and outside nerve cells. There are millions, even billions, of chemical reactions that make up the dynamic system that is responsible for your mood, perceptions, and how you experience life. With this level of complexity, you can see how two people might have similar symptoms of depression, but the problem on the inside, and therefore what treatments will work best, may be entirely different.

 

The fact that depression and bipolar disorder run in families has long been clear, but experts now have a developing picture of how much of that tendency comes from nature and how much reflects nurture. Studies of twins and adopted children, plus a wealth of research from the Human Genome Project and the Human Genetics Initiative at the National Institute of Mental Health, have begun to answer some important questions.

 

The clearest genetic link is to bipolar disorder. Most experts believe it affects 1% of the general population, although some preliminary evidence suggests it could be even more common. Half of those with bipolar disorder have a relative with a similar pattern of mood fluctuations. Studies of identical twins, who share a genetic blueprint, show that if one twin has bipolar disorder, the other has a 60%80% chance of developing it, too. These numbers dont apply to fraternal twins who, like other biological siblings, share only about half of their genes. If one fraternal twin has bipolar disorder, the other has a 20% chance of developing it.

 

The genetic components of other mood disorders are far harder to pin down. A person who has a first-degree relative who suffered major depression has a 1.5%3% higher-than-normal risk of experiencing the condition as well. But researchers have found it quite difficult to sort out the actual influence of genes versus environmental factors.

 

Thus far, experts say genes alone are not responsible for causing mood disorders. Rather, these illnesses probably result when genes make a person vulnerable; then the illness is triggered by environmental factors like early losses or long-term stress.

 

Research indicates that a persons genes also affect how well he or she responds to different treatments. Although we do not yet have genetic tests to help us choose the best treatment, such tests may not be too far off

[A String]

WOW...I never realized it was so cut and dried.

 

What the heck was I thinking? :grin:

 

Not sure what you were thinking, but it certainly is as "cut and dried" as that.

[Strategery]

This is a good subject, one worthy of debate for sure.

 

Elwood has taken it in a few different areas that are valid.

 

Bi-polarism..if that is a word :grin:.. Alzheimers disease, and a few others come to mind as well.

 

I think one of the things that bothers me...which we're not really discussing here....is how every behavior nowdays has been given a disease name or an ISM.

 

Gone are the days of Personal Responsibility and actions are now classified as acceptable due to illness and a chemical imbalance.

 

This is proven in the courts time after time by getting criminals out of the death penalty or even worse...scott free.

 

Is it right? That's debatable.

 

But my point is....is a person that has been sane for decades, simply let of the hook for his or her suicide...by the chemically imbalanced therefore not responsible for their actions theory?

[A String]

But my point is....is a person that has been sane for decades, simply let of the hook for his or her suicide...by the chemically imbalanced therefore not responsible for their actions theory?

 

The fact of the matter is, a person who commits suicide because of depression, probably had depression all along and just did a good job of hiding it.

[Strategery]

Good point...and I agree with that.

 

One of my previous statements stated such.

 

I think with Delp...has anyone found out WHY...he commited suicide.

If so, I missed it.

 

Of course there must be something underlying, otherwise, why would he end it all.

 

I'm understanding your chemical imbalance theory and am familiar with it, and I am not disagreeing with it totally.

I simply believe it is only part of the equasion.

 

Is there any reason for suicide that would NOT include a chemical imbalance...such as guilty conscience?

Can mental thoughts, produce a physical-chemical imbalance?

 

I'll give you an example.

 

This is only partially usable and is for example only.

 

When I was stationed in Germany in the 80's, I had 3 other people in my car and we hit some black ice and I went off the road and wrecked my car.

 

I was thrown out but not injured badly.

 

I woke up in the middle of a plowed field at night, and only 2 of my friends were by my side.

They said the other was going to a farm house to call an ambulance because I had a leg injury.

 

I was in slight shock and in MY mind...they were lying to me and they were trying to spare me.

My mind told me I was responsible for killing my other friend, even though it wasn't my fault.

 

THe FACT was....my other friend WAS at a farm house calling an ambulance and I was the only one injured.

 

But in that moment....thinking that I had killed someone...even though an accident...was about as unbearable as I could imagine.

 

Had it been true, would I have been able to live with that?

Had I had thoughts of suicide, would it have been a chemical imbalance...not a shear guilt overload?

 

I think this scario would also bleed over to the driver that accidentally hit a pedestrian.

Sure, he may be sued, and maybe even some jail time involved, but could that person live with it?

Same for the war veteran that simply did his job, but couldn't live with the outcome?

If not, would it be a chemical imbalance?

 

Such scenarios are also valid and are worthy of debate.

 

This is not so closed ended as one may think.

[A String]

Good point...and I agree with that.

 

One of my previous statements stated such.

 

I think with Delp...has anyone found out WHY...he commited suicide.

If so, I missed it.

 

Of course there must be something underlying, otherwise, why would he end it all.

 

Is there any reason for suicide that would NOT include a chemical imbalance...such as guilty conscience?

 

I'll give you an example.

 

This is only partially usable and is for example only.

 

When I was stationed in Germany in the 80's, I had 3 other people in my car and we hit some black ice and I went off the road and wrecked my car.

 

I was thrown out but not injured badly.

 

I woke up in the middle of a plowed field at night, and only 2 of my friends were by my side.

They said the other was going to a farm house to call an ambulance because I had a leg injury.

 

I was in slight shock and in MY mind...they were lying to me and they were trying to spare me.

My mind told me I was responsible for killing my other friend, even though it wasn't my fault.

 

THe FACT was....my other friend WAS at a farm house calling an ambulance and I was the only one injured.

 

But in that moment....thinking that I had killed someone...even though an accident...was about as unbearable as I could imagine.

 

Had it been true, would I have been able to live with that?

Had I had thoughts of suicide, would it have been a chemical imbalance...not a shear guilt overload?

 

I think this scario would also bleed over to the driver that accidentally hit a pedestrian.

Sure, he may be sued, and maybe even some jail time involved, but could that person live with it?

If not, would it be a chemical imbalance?

 

Such scenarios are also valid and are worthy of debate.

 

This is not so closed ended as one may think.

 

I think there needs to be a separation between someone who contemplates suicide and someone who commits suicide.

 

The depression one would suffer, thinking they lost a friend and they were at fault, would be devastating. However, it is a different animal. This type of "situational" depression, very rarely ends in a suicide. You possess the "depression", but lack the rest of the mental state that goes along with depression (lack of reasoning being a major one), that leads to commit suicide.

 

You feel the same suffering, but have the ability to reason your way out of it. But imagine if you felt that way, all the time. If it was a never ending emotion for you. You can only hold out so long, against that sort of thing.

 

Of course I'm not saying that all persons with depression have it as bad as that, but it's certainly a factor when questioning why a person has committed suicide.

 

It's easy to say "I was that way, but I talked myself out of it and so can you". Remember, there is a vast difference between situational depression and clinical depression.

[Strategery]

Cool...

 

I would think that anyone who killed someone by accident, or a war vet also with the guilty conscience...would be troubled by those things for their entire life.

 

One last thing, I THINK...that anyone that would commit suicide, would require some amount of comtemplation for no other reason than the HOW, WHERE, & WHEN of it.

 

I don't think everyone can be talked out of it.

I also will agree that some people are mentally ill and are just too far gone.

I've encountered a couple of people like that for sure.

 

I think that the scenarios that I mentioned, if suicides were commited, could be for the reason of the sacrifice of their life...for the one they took.

Sort of...."an eye for an eye" theory.

 

Anyway, I appreciate everyone's thoughts and I think that this is a relevent subject for musicians.

In the music world....there are quite a few suicides and overdoses, be it accidental or not.

 

Some musicians...albeit only a few, place their entire lives on the line in kind of a...."make it or break it" mentallity.

 

Sad to be sure but the reasons can be many.

 

Randy

[Pappy P]

I'm sorry to hear about Brad Delp. That's awful news.